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Old Sep 12, 2013, 12:47 PM   #101
TyPod
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I love the look of my iMac. I always have loved the look of them, having an all-in-one computer is extremely nice for me. Hooking up a couple external displays to mine with the luxury of running OS X couldn't be any better.
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Old Sep 12, 2013, 06:49 PM   #102
Arfdog
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Of course it's a compromise. The compromise is an incredible slim all-in-one. It has to house laptop components, it is very expensive to other computers of similar or higher spec computres that also works out of the box.

Seriously, where are you coming up with this nonsense?
It's actually you who are nonsensical. It is very competitively priced with computers of equal spec. You probably forgot major components in your accounting. Just check out a Dell, HP or Lenovo all in one, and those don't even look as good.

It uses energy efficient components, leading to something that is dead quiet. Completely functional. The trick is, it's incredibly fast and the top model can even do great gaming.

And why do you need the a computer to be "as powerful as can be" when it's already over-powered (in the case of the iMac) for 99% of usage? A slight compromise for the sake of useful features is the mark of a great design.
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Old Sep 13, 2013, 07:04 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by Arfdog View Post
It's actually you who are nonsensical. It is very competitively priced with computers of equal spec. You probably forgot major components in your accounting. Just check out a Dell, HP or Lenovo all in one, and those don't even look as good.

It uses energy efficient components, leading to something that is dead quiet. Completely functional. The trick is, it's incredibly fast and the top model can even do great gaming.

And why do you need the a computer to be "as powerful as can be" when it's already over-powered (in the case of the iMac) for 99% of usage? A slight compromise for the sake of useful features is the mark of a great design.
You say it's functional. I don't know why you are even mentioning that. Just because something functions doesn't mean it's a compromise. Laptop components are not the best for optimal lifetime, value and performance per dollars. That you are even arguing against this, is amazing.

I say it's over priced for what it is - A device which specialty is that it is an all-in-one. Buy the components of equal spec(and power consumption) and a monitor with the same ips technology, and you can get the same performance for half the price. All all-in-one computers are compromised.




For the record, I have no quarrals with something being a compromise. If you are very fashion aware and perhaps a bit vain, you might want to just be honest about paying more for less, due to the fact it looks good and sleek? Nothing wrong with that.


It's just flat out misleading to spread an idea that it's great value for money, for someone who needs to use it for something and who is not focused on design. Had the Imac retained it's original specs, or had there been an entire stationary computer attached to the back of the panel, it could have housed very impressive specs, cooling and storage options along with expandability and better speakers.
The speakers in this latest version of iMac is actually worse than the older one, due to their priority on thinness. And that's a shame.


That's a compromise, no matter how you look at it. It's still functional, it's still fine, it might even be priced fairly against it's all-in-one competition - I don't know, but it's still a compromise.
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Old Sep 13, 2013, 08:01 AM   #104
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For me i use a iMac so i can have more desk space and also have a machine that throws less heat.
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Old Sep 13, 2013, 08:09 AM   #105
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It gives me good screen real estate with a small footprint in addition looking neat and tidy. My iMac is coming up to three years old now and it's still a capable machine.
I'll be sad to part with it in October but I really need a laptop due to regular stays in Germany
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Old Sep 15, 2013, 01:52 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by luffytubby View Post
You say it's functional. I don't know why you are even mentioning that. Just because something functions doesn't mean it's a compromise. Laptop components are not the best for optimal lifetime, value and performance per dollars. That you are even arguing against this, is amazing.

I say it's over priced for what it is - A device which specialty is that it is an all-in-one. Buy the components of equal spec(and power consumption) and a monitor with the same ips technology, and you can get the same performance for half the price. All all-in-one computers are compromised.




For the record, I have no quarrals with something being a compromise. If you are very fashion aware and perhaps a bit vain, you might want to just be honest about paying more for less, due to the fact it looks good and sleek? Nothing wrong with that.


It's just flat out misleading to spread an idea that it's great value for money, for someone who needs to use it for something and who is not focused on design. Had the Imac retained it's original specs, or had there been an entire stationary computer attached to the back of the panel, it could have housed very impressive specs, cooling and storage options along with expandability and better speakers.
The speakers in this latest version of iMac is actually worse than the older one, due to their priority on thinness. And that's a shame.


That's a compromise, no matter how you look at it. It's still functional, it's still fine, it might even be priced fairly against it's all-in-one competition - I don't know, but it's still a compromise.
It's frankly stupid to buy something for purely fashion and vanity. That's not why I bought my 2012 iMac.

Your jibberish about the case being too thin and the speakers being worse is all opinion and no facts or engineering logic to it. Why is thinner worse when no one expands their system beyond memory? Cooling options? How do you make a computer cooler than room temperature? The iMac is essentially free of heat on the exterior. Case volume and performance are independent factors. As for laptop components, these aren't laptop components, but they are energy-efficient.

The iMac is as much a compromise as a fully-decked out sprawling desktop. The latter is a compromise in usability, stability, viruses, excessive heat and noise, occupied space, shall I continue? You must think you get your cake and eat it too with a custom PC. If it were such a win, everyone would have a custom PC.

Attached picture just proves prices aren't that much different from the supposedly 2x more expensive iMac.
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Old Sep 15, 2013, 11:30 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Arfdog View Post
The iMac is as much a compromise as a fully-decked out sprawling desktop. The latter is a compromise in usability, stability, viruses, excessive heat and noise, occupied space, shall I continue? You must think you get your cake and eat it too with a custom PC. If it were such a win, everyone would have a custom PC.
AIO-PCs are a niche in consumer PCs and even more so in enterprise equipment. Except for a few rare cases people and companies prefer extendability, adaptability and performance over looks.

If Apple would offer a desktop class Mac with a footprint between the Mini and the Pro at a reasonable price then no one would buy the iMac.

But they don't, because they know that their offer would become comparable and they'd lose some of their USP.
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Old Sep 20, 2013, 07:56 AM   #108
luffytubby
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Arfdog, how much do you wanna keep embarrassing yourself. Read a few more times what you just wrote, and ponder on it;

Quote:
It's frankly stupid to buy something for purely fashion and vanity. That's not why I bought my 2012 iMac.
Sounds to me, you are calling yourself stupid, as I speculate, that you are clueless(somewhat) about computers, and desperately tries to justify your purchase, for something as it isn't.


Quote:
Your jibberish about the case being too thin and the speakers being worse is all opinion and no facts or engineering logic to it.
Listen to me, - The thinner the case, the less cooling options you have. You need smaller fans, it's more problematic leading the heat away from the main components. An example, is how very thin laptop and ultrabooks (like Macbook Air can't have powerful CPUs or graphics. They are still expensive, as the need custom designed components that save on power, with reduced heat that still gives the best performance possible.

So in other words, when you are buying a ultrathin and light machine, you are paying for portability. In the case iMac, this doesn't make sense as you are not using it as a portable device in the same degree as a laptop. Thus, reducing the casing has no benefits other than for aesthetics, and perhaps saving on some aluminium building materials, but I actually think the computer ends up becoming more expensive the thinner you get, even as components get removed, like options for secondary HDD, Optical Drive and so on.

It's the same for speakers. Just look in the shops for any thin HDTV, plasma or LED - They all have tin speakers. You can't house proper acoustics in such a thin case, and you can hear on the new iMac how the sound is worse. You can call this opinion, but lots and lots of folks and reviews agree with this. They are by no means abysmal, and it's not a massive downgrade from the previous Imac, but it still is a reduction in quality for the sake of aesthetics, and it's hilariously sad that you are so dead set on not wanting to realize this, almost like it being some form of death for you.


Quote:
Why is thinner worse when no one expands their system beyond memory? Cooling options? How do you make a computer cooler than room temperature? The iMac is essentially free of heat on the exterior.
I already explained to you why thinner is worse.(see above). How do you make a computer cooler than room temperature? Your room temperature can be very different depending on the room and the temperature of the area you are in, as seen in the overheating thread in the MBP forum.

You can make it cooler by blowing lots of air in directly on the components. having intake fans and exhaust fans, help create conditions for transfering lots of air through a system. because it travels, through the computer the air doesn't get hot, but immediately gets blown out of through the back of the device.
Doing this efficiently enough, you can have cooler components at idle inside a computer than in the room. Just stand in front of a normal fan and notice all the cool air getting blown into your face.

Of course, the smaller the space, the less room for effective fans you have, which means the thinner the case the worse cooling options you have.



I am not sure what you mean about iMac being free of heat on exterior. It's true that Aluminium retracts some of the heat, and lets the surface of the Imac exterior becoming warmer, but it can't effectively cool decent CPU and GPU. because the air got nowhere to go.




Quote:
Case volume and performance are independent factors. As for laptop components, these aren't laptop components, but they are energy-efficient.
Nope they are not. The CPU inside the iMac is desktop(as power savings is no concern), but the other components; SSD, GPU and so on, are mobile components. These components are more expensive, than their desktop counterpart.



Quote:
The iMac is as much a compromise as a fully-decked out sprawling desktop. The latter is a compromise in usability, stability, viruses, excessive heat and noise, occupied space, shall I continue?
So what is going on here, is that you are running out of arguments, so now you have decided to spin the topic on OSX vs Windows, and space. Heat and noise depends on the computer, so that's all relative.


This discussion is about iMac being a compromise for it's form factor. It's an all-in-one device, and this generation Apple decided to slim it down significantly, allowing it's performance options to be significantly reduced for what a similar priced desktop computer plus screen would have costed.


It's true that imac wins with occupied space. It's a very thin computer. But that's my entire point from the beginning. Imacs new found ultra thinness is due to the aesthetics. I am sorry but this is the truth.



Quote:
You must think you get your cake and eat it too with a custom PC. If it were such a win, everyone would have a custom PC.
You seem to think I have something against iMac, which is not true. I am merely here to try and enlighten you about you being so, so wrong.

A custom PC offers something great for people who want to do things like upgrade things beside rams, wants a powerful system, do 4K editing, do gaming at native rez(2560x1440) and who want more storage, and optical drive and more ports and more expandability in the form of card slots and want a matte display and so on and so forth.


Imac is great if you are content with an expensive, but very pretty computer that doesn't take a lot room on the desk.


As for the last part, really? are you really going to try and make that argument that anything that is great is owned by the majority? macs only have 15% of the market, while Windows still has 85%. Does that mean that if Macs were so great, wouldn't the majority own them?

I don't have the numbers on how many custom computers are in circulation now, and I don't give a damn. That doesn't speak to the quality of them, and you would know that too, if you even remotely new what you were talking about.
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Old Sep 20, 2013, 08:00 AM   #109
Solomani
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Just wondering.....

What's the ONE greatest advantage of owning an iMac over a Windows PC?
Retaining sanity.
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Old Sep 20, 2013, 08:45 AM   #110
cats4jan
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Greatest Advantage?

Not sure there is one. Both PC's and Mac's do the job - in different ways.

Greatest Disadvantage?

Price - comparable PC is cheaper.

I have a Mac because someone gave it to me. I wanted to "play" with one and now I can. It's been a learnng experience after 30 years on a PC. Yikes.

Disappointed right now. I wiped it and upgraded OS and not even four months later, I have a major glitch - "blocked plug-in"

After reading all the hype about Apple, I actually expected at least a year of trouble free usage. Oh well.

Yes, I do think "it's pretty"

BTW - for all you guys who talk about "desk footprint" - there are Windows all-in-ones now. Same footprint.
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