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Old Jun 26, 2013, 01:59 AM   #1
ScottishCaptain
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How about we ban beta related bug discussion?

I've got an idea!

Let's implement a zero tolerance policy for discussing bugs about beta software.

I was going to say "Let's ban on sight anyone using beta software who isn't a developer", but then I realized there is basically no way to prove you're a developer.

Let's get a few things straight here:

1) If you are a developer, you have access to the Apple developer forums
2) The Apple developer forums have a confidential section designated for discussing this stuff
3) If you are a developer, you have access to Radar
4) If you encounter problems (and are a developer), you should file a bug report, then post on the Apple developer forums in the appropriate (confidential) section for assistance

The only reason people have to post "omg i bricked mah phwn plz hlp me" crap here is because they're not developers and don't have access to the aforementioned resources. I do not care if you can't afford the $99/year, or believe you're entitled to confidential software that is not designated for public consumption.

If you want to be stupid and install that kind of stuff on your only machines that you rely on for daily use in an illegal fashion, then you should have absolutely no right to ask for help anywhere- let alone MacRumors. That was your risk to take and you got burned, end of story. If you want help, cough up your $100 like the rest of us and ask for help in the official places.

IMHO; this garbage only serves to clog up the forum and I think MacRumors would be a better place without it. Once something goes GM or retail, all discussion would be fair game. However I think that discussing technical support related stuff about beta software should be prohibited.

-SC
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Old Jun 26, 2013, 02:10 AM   #2
Jessica Lares
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Agree. Especially since the betas this time around are really, really unstable.
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Old Jun 26, 2013, 02:37 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Jessica Lares View Post
Agree. Especially since the betas this time around are really, really unstable.
OSX Mavricks is I think more stable then ML.YMMV
But yeah iOS 7 this time around is just unstable(Don't worry I know why)
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Old Jun 26, 2013, 02:41 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by macbook pro i5 View Post
OSX Mavricks is I think more stable then ML.YMMV
But yeah iOS 7 this time around is just unstable(Don't worry I know why)
Same opinion here.
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Old Jun 26, 2013, 05:37 AM   #5
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I wish it was more difficult for average joes to be able to install betas. Primarily because a lot of these people probably aren't doing proper testing and giving Apple feedback through the proper channels. They just come to sites like MR and complain. And then we get endless threads about superficial stuff like the look of the icons.
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Old Jun 26, 2013, 05:42 AM   #6
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How about we ban people who want to ban others from discussions?
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Last edited by stridemat; Jun 26, 2013 at 02:18 PM. Reason: Removed PSRI comment
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Old Jun 26, 2013, 05:59 AM   #7
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MacRumors is a discussion forum and being such, it seems counter to the core values to ban all discussions of an up and coming apple product.

While I can empathize with members that do not wish to see these threads, the simple solution is to avoid the iOS7 and Mavericks sub forum.

We've organized the forum in such a way that if you're not interested in discussing iOS7 then do not visit that sub forum. I will also say its nearly impossible to discuss the merits of iOS7 without mentioning the beta, they go hand in hand at this point.

There are many developers who have iOS7 and choose to discuss the issues here, there's nothing wrong with that. There are also people who violated Apple's licensing and have iOS7 even though they're not a developer. We do not permit people posting how to install, distribute or where to get iOS7 as that violates our rules.
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Old Jun 26, 2013, 07:36 AM   #8
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Trouble is the whining spreads out to every single post in the forum, even in sections you wouldn't expect. Ive never seen it as bad here before this wwdc.

Would be lovely if apple could license betas to individual devs so all the people people getting it from torrents couldn't just install it.
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Old Jun 26, 2013, 08:27 AM   #9
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If they were real developers, wouldn't they actually be focusing on updating their apps than iOS 7 overall though? I KNOW actual developers with actual apps that are actually pretty popular, and they are following the NDA and working really hard on making changes to their apps right now.

It looks bad when someone from Adobe has to come on here to remind people that the OS is not a general release too. They're having the worst time out of everyone because people are pushing them to fix problems that are not GOING to be addressed until as early as October.
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Old Jun 26, 2013, 10:48 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maflynn View Post
MacRumors is a discussion forum and being such, it seems counter to the core values to ban all discussions of an up and coming apple product.

While I can empathize with members that do not wish to see these threads, the simple solution is to avoid the iOS7 and Mavericks sub forum.

We've organized the forum in such a way that if you're not interested in discussing iOS7 then do not visit that sub forum. I will also say its nearly impossible to discuss the merits of iOS7 without mentioning the beta, they go hand in hand at this point.

There are many developers who have iOS7 and choose to discuss the issues here, there's nothing wrong with that. There are also people who violated Apple's licensing and have iOS7 even though they're not a developer. We do not permit people posting how to install, distribute or where to get iOS7 as that violates our rules.
This is correct, and maflynn says it well. Members may or may not like everything that's allowed to be discussed here, but this is one that's not likely to change. So influencing discussions by contributing while staying within the rules, posting what you're interested in, and simply avoiding discussions you don't like or aren't interested in are definitely the best courses of action.

On such a big forum there are bound to be things that irritate or don't interest many of us.
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Old Jun 26, 2013, 06:22 PM   #11
ScottishCaptain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maflynn View Post
MacRumors is a discussion forum and being such, it seems counter to the core values to ban all discussions of an up and coming apple product.

While I can empathize with members that do not wish to see these threads, the simple solution is to avoid the iOS7 and Mavericks sub forum.

We've organized the forum in such a way that if you're not interested in discussing iOS7 then do not visit that sub forum. I will also say its nearly impossible to discuss the merits of iOS7 without mentioning the beta, they go hand in hand at this point.

There are many developers who have iOS7 and choose to discuss the issues here, there's nothing wrong with that. There are also people who violated Apple's licensing and have iOS7 even though they're not a developer. We do not permit people posting how to install, distribute or where to get iOS7 as that violates our rules.
You misunderstand me.

I didn't say I wanted to ban all discussion about upcoming products.

Just requests for technical support about those products, or anything that has to do with bugs.

I understand that certain kinds of discussion are what drive MacRumors forward, and I can appreciate that. I really don't care if someone wants to take the plunge and install iOS 7 on their shiny new handheld, then post all their wonderful findings on the forum for others to read.

All I'm suggesting is that you prohibit discussion about bugs and technical support on the relevant forums for unreleased products.

Examples:

Allowed:

A thread collecting information about the device support iOS 7 offers and what users can expect from their device generation

Prohibited:

A thread about an iTunes restore error when attempting to install the beta without a developer account

Allowed:

A thread about how wonderful and awesome the new iOS 7 UI is (or not)

Prohibited:

A thread asking about why the Calendar or Contacts app doesn't work properly

Allowed:

A thread about how great the new multi-monitor stuff works in Mavericks

Prohibited:

A thread asking why the new Notes app forgets or deletes various notes at random times

etc.

I am only suggesting that you keep your own forums clean for those who wish to use them as a source of knowledge and information. These technical support requests do nothing for anyone, because this is all beta software and absolutely everything is subject to change. By prohibiting discussion about such, you will send a clear message that people install beta software at their own risk, and that the only proper place for discussing such bugs is at the Apple developer forums (preferably after the problem has been reported on Radar) where Apple employees have been known to visit.

Again, I welcome discussion about these new unreleased products.

I just believe that people who illegally install this software on their own devices should have no expectance of free technical support. If they want support, then they should have signed up for the developer program so that they can properly report the bugs so they can get fixed prior to public release.

-SC
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Old Jun 26, 2013, 07:26 PM   #12
Mr. Retrofire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottishCaptain View Post
I've got an idea!
Good for you, but a bit unrealistic on a rumors site. Mavericks was on the front page!

Btw, i find the whining of non-developers about bugs in beta/developer preview versions of OS X or iOS funny. Entertaining.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdowns View Post
How about we ban people who want to ban others from discussions?
Should MR not ban people who want to ban people who want to ban others from discussions?
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