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Old May 26, 2015, 12:07 PM   #351
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Originally Posted by JoshMKB24 View Post
Only big difference is in the book she accuses Maegery of adultury and the investigation into that reveals more about Cersei's kids/past than anything.

I love Cersei, she is easily 1 of my favorite characters and I like Lena Headey

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Wasn't it also about her settling the crown's debt to them she militarizes them? Again, just as short sighted as she was only seeing the short game of no debt, but not the long game of these crazy religious fanatics now having military force.
I think your right, but I wonder what kind of debt could the Crown owe to the Faith? Cercei is so smug, everyone is dying to watch her get hers.
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Old May 26, 2015, 01:53 PM   #352
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I think your right, but I wonder what kind of debt could the Crown owe to the Faith? Cercei is so smug, everyone is dying to watch her get hers.
The crown in the books and show owe an incredible amount of money. That is why Lady Tyrell reminded Cersei that they are dependent on them for both food and soldiers and gold. In the book the bank of Bravos won't issue them new loans and then when Cersei pisses them off, they demand all be paid then.

I think it was last season even Tywin said to Cersei..........so she is aware of it.........that the kingdom is broke and thats why they need the Tyrells and that there is no more gold in the Lannister mines, which had funded the crown for so long, which is partly how the Lannisters became so powerful.

Also, not sure if it'll matter in the show or the book........but Kevan Lannister as we saw in the beginning of this season is NOT a big fan of Cersei.........and if/when he finds out she banged her nephew/his son and made him go crazy and join the faith and him losing his heir to Casterly Rock..........dunno if the Lannisters will help out the crown against the faith.
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Old May 26, 2015, 04:05 PM   #353
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Originally Posted by malman89 View Post
I'm super excited to see how the Tyrion/Daenerys dynamic plays out. The show also strung out the Cersei/High Sparrow thing for quite a long time. I was wondering when she was finally going to get her due just like in the books.
What the significance of those two meeting? I get that its a big deal but I'm not sure why..
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Old May 26, 2015, 05:16 PM   #354
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Originally Posted by JoshMKB24 View Post
Only big difference is in the book she accuses Maegery of adultury and the investigation into that reveals more about Cersei's kids/past than anything.

I love Cersei, she is easily 1 of my favorite characters and I like Lena Headey


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Wasn't it also about her settling the crown's debt to them she militarizes them? Again, just as short sighted as she was only seeing the short game of no debt, but not the long game of these crazy religious fanatics now having military force.
And we all (book readers) know Cersei's past is coming up in future episodes (and you can just infer based off the ending in this week's episode), though I feel like that storyline is going to drag out past this season the way they've gone.


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What the significance of those two meeting? I get that its a big deal but I'm not sure why..
No one really knows, but everyone has their assumptions of a John Snow/Tyrion/Daenerys triumvirate sort of deal. I'm just looking forward to the banter between those two. She's going to be sarcastic/smart ass (after she decides to not kill him, one assumes), and he's going to have an even sharper tongue. He hasn't had the chance to unleash some snarky/witty dialogue very much since leaving King's Landing.
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Old May 26, 2015, 11:29 PM   #355
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Originally Posted by malman89 View Post
No one really knows, but everyone has their assumptions of a John Snow/Tyrion/Daenerys triumvirate sort of deal. I'm just looking forward to the banter between those two. She's going to be sarcastic/smart ass (after she decides to not kill him, one assumes), and he's going to have an even sharper tongue. He hasn't had the chance to unleash some snarky/witty dialogue very much since leaving King's Landing.
Tyrion is likely the catalyst to start getting Daenerys' sights really set on Westeros, so the meeting of those two is highly anticipated to begin an expected climax of the overall story arc.

**major spoiler referenced below...**

I don't really follow blogs or theories about GoT, but I have long thought that the song of Ice and Fire referred to John Snow (Ice) and Daenerys Targarian (Fire) coming together ... That is until the end of the very last book in the Snow storyline. I am surprised to hear that this is an operating theory held by others... How does that still stand after the final sequence to which I am referring? Very curious and fascinated if my (evidently shared) theory might still be afloat...
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Old May 27, 2015, 08:43 AM   #356
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Originally Posted by malman89 View Post
And we all (book readers) know Cersei's past is coming up in future episodes (and you can just infer based off the ending in this week's episode), though I feel like that storyline is going to drag out past this season the way they've gone.




No one really knows, but everyone has their assumptions of a John Snow/Tyrion/Daenerys triumvirate sort of deal. I'm just looking forward to the banter between those two. She's going to be sarcastic/smart ass (after she decides to not kill him, one assumes), and he's going to have an even sharper tongue. He hasn't had the chance to unleash some snarky/witty dialogue very much since leaving King's Landing.
The funny thing is in the books, I am like 99% positive it isn't her cousin she was nailing or had help her get rid of her late husband. It was some other random dude and he is the 1 she says Maergery(sp?) cheated on Tommen with and while the Sparrows are torturing him, that's when her past comes out that she slept with him, not the queen.




SPOILER




It won't drag too long I don't think. As we know the show creators/film crew were having issues filming the Lena Headey nude scene and them wanting to film it in a local church and the town didn't want it so they came up with a compromise. That leads me to believe it is happening this week or next, because I did not see her on the cast list for the finale, episode 10, so I think that means it happens this week or next. She sends a letter to her brother in the book, but he wasn't in Dorne like he is the show..........so I'm not sure how that is going to play out.

I saw Benjen, Stark's brother and Snow's uncle is on the cast list for episode 10. I had honestly forgotten about him. Maybe my memory is cloudy, but if I remember correctly..........Stark and 1 other person know the true identity of Jon Snow's mother, was it Benjen? Could the season finale be finding out who his mother is?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by zmunkz View Post
Tyrion is likely the catalyst to start getting Daenerys' sights really set on Westeros, so the meeting of those two is highly anticipated to begin an expected climax of the overall story arc.

**major spoiler referenced below...**

I don't really follow blogs or theories about GoT, but I have long thought that the song of Ice and Fire referred to John Snow (Ice) and Daenerys Targarian (Fire) coming together ... That is until the end of the very last book in the Snow storyline. I am surprised to hear that this is an operating theory held by others... How does that still stand after the final sequence to which I am referring? Very curious and fascinated if my (evidently shared) theory might still be afloat...
Isn't the theory that they are brother and sister or cousins or something? Like Snow's mother is really Stark's sister, but the father was the Targaryan dude who Robert Boratheon hated, so that's why Ned promised to tell everyone it was his kid? Not sure how that plays out though now that he gets killed by fellow members of the night's watch.
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Old May 27, 2015, 12:23 PM   #357
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Originally Posted by JoshMKB24 View Post
Isn't the theory that they are brother and sister or cousins or something? Like Snow's mother is really Stark's sister, but the father was the Targaryan dude who Robert Boratheon hated, so that's why Ned promised to tell everyone it was his kid? Not sure how that plays out though now that he gets killed by fellow members of the night's watch.
Rhaegar+Lyanna = Jon. Literally S05E04 was literally pounding the relationship in your face for an hour. Even complete with Stannis going all "it wasn't like Eddard Stark" when Selyse asked about Jon's mother.
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Old May 27, 2015, 01:48 PM   #358
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I'm not a book reader so I tend to skip most of what is in this thread, but I think Jon Snow, Tyrion, and Dany (obviously) are all Targaryens some how some way.
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Old Yesterday, 08:02 AM   #359
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Rhaegar+Lyanna = Jon. Literally S05E04 was literally pounding the relationship in your face for an hour. Even complete with Stannis going all "it wasn't like Eddard Stark" when Selyse asked about Jon's mother.
Yeah, I'm a bit shaky on how all the relationships work. I knew it was ending up as Jon's mother is actually Stark's sister and Ned just said it was his to cover up its origins to protect the kid. I'm a bit shaky on the relationships though..........Rhaegar was the son of the mad king right? Like once Jamie Lannister killed the mad king, Rhaegar would have been next in line, but he was killed by Robert Boratheon. That makes Jon Snow the rightful heir and Daenarys's cousin?
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Old Yesterday, 08:40 AM   #360
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Yeah, I'm a bit shaky on how all the relationships work. I knew it was ending up as Jon's mother is actually Stark's sister and Ned just said it was his to cover up its origins to protect the kid. I'm a bit shaky on the relationships though..........Rhaegar was the son of the mad king right? Like once Jamie Lannister killed the mad king, Rhaegar would have been next in line, but he was killed by Robert Boratheon. That makes Jon Snow the rightful heir and Daenarys's cousin?
If Jon Snow is the son of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen, then Jon would be Dany's nephew, since she and Rhaegar were brother and sister.
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Old Yesterday, 09:17 AM   #361
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If Jon Snow is the son of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen, then Jon would be Dany's nephew, since she and Rhaegar were brother and sister.
You're right! Haha its hard with all the Targaryan incest, it get's confusing as who is who's sister but also their spouse. I saw some Targaryan family tree on some website and it is pretty vertical without many branches.
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Old Yesterday, 09:57 AM   #362
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Jon is totally Lyanna's son. Nedard said he was his bastard son to keep his sister's son from being killed. That was probably the real "argument" between him and Katlyn. (Spoiler alert!) We'll probably find out after Kat returns.

And if you haven't seen Game of Thrones: The Musical, check this out:

http://hypetrak.com/2015/05/coldplay...rones-musical/
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Old Yesterday, 02:49 PM   #363
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Jon is totally Lyanna's son. Nedard said he was his bastard son to keep his sister's son from being killed. That was probably the real "argument" between him and Katlyn. (Spoiler alert!) We'll probably find out after Kat returns.

And if you haven't seen Game of Thrones: The Musical, check this out:

http://hypetrak.com/2015/05/coldplay...rones-musical/
I'm like 90% sure the show runners said that Lady Stoneheart isn't going to be in the series along with a lot of the other stuff. They're trying to pack as much as possible in and are leaving a lot out. Also, the actress who played Catelyn Stark/Stoneheart is not under contract and I think she now has other obligations.

However myself and a bunch of other people agree with you that Jon is Ned's sister's kid and said it was his as his promise to her. Also, I'm pretty sure Catelyn was unaware of that arrangement, I could be wrong, but I believe they stated that only 2 people knew and 1 of them was Ned. That's why I was trying to remember if the other is his brother Benjen who is returning at the end of this season. I easily could be wrong, but I was pretty sure Cat did not know and had stated in the books something along the lines of "Whoever she was Ned must have really loved her because he won't even tell me who she is"
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Old Yesterday, 04:19 PM   #364
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I'm like 90% sure the show runners said that Lady Stoneheart isn't going to be in the series along with a lot of the other stuff. They're trying to pack as much as possible in and are leaving a lot out. Also, the actress who played Catelyn Stark/Stoneheart is not under contract and I think she now has other obligations.
Lady Stoneheart has almost been guaranteed not to return.

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However myself and a bunch of other people agree with you that Jon is Ned's sister's kid and said it was his as his promise to her. Also, I'm pretty sure Catelyn was unaware of that arrangement, I could be wrong, but I believe they stated that only 2 people knew and 1 of them was Ned. That's why I was trying to remember if the other is his brother Benjen who is returning at the end of this season. I easily could be wrong, but I was pretty sure Cat did not know and had stated in the books something along the lines of "Whoever she was Ned must have really loved her because he won't even tell me who she is"
Okay, Catelyn believes the other woman to be someone named Ashara Dayne. Ashara Dayne's brother was one of the Kingsguard killed by Eddard Stark present at the Tower of Joy. Ashara Dayne was originally engaged to Eddard Stark, with Brandon engaged to Catelyn. Ashara Dayne was pregnant, although it's unknown when she fell pregnant. The child was miscarried some time before the events of the Tower of Joy (months before meaning Jon, who was born eight months before Daenerys, who herself was born exactly nine months after the Sack of King's Landing). Eddard returned House Dayne's sword (Dawn). Two days later Ashara killed herself.

So the theory goes that Ashara tipped Eddard off to her brother being with Lyanna at the Tower of Joy. Ashara may not have known about the pregnancy (if that was common knowledge Eddard wouldn't be able to suppress Jon's existence, in fact this may have meant further civil war if it had and placed House Stark in a very VERY weird position. Since there is the possibility the miscarried daughter was a Stark and specifically Eddard's, conceived prior to his marriage to Catelyn, then it paints a clear picture of why she committed suicide.

1) She miscarried the man she loved's child.
2) She miscarried a child.
3) The man she loved married another woman.
4) Said other woman had borne a child to term.
5) She told Eddard where Arthur was, resulting in his death.

The combination of these things in such a short time pushed her into making the course of action she did. Eddard himself feels guilt for all of this, and this guilt and suspicion is probably the true reason talk of Ashara Dayne is banned in Winterfell.
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Old Today, 08:07 AM   #365
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Lady Stoneheart has almost been guaranteed not to return.



Okay, Catelyn believes the other woman to be someone named Ashara Dayne. Ashara Dayne's brother was one of the Kingsguard killed by Eddard Stark present at the Tower of Joy. Ashara Dayne was originally engaged to Eddard Stark, with Brandon engaged to Catelyn. Ashara Dayne was pregnant, although it's unknown when she fell pregnant. The child was miscarried some time before the events of the Tower of Joy (months before meaning Jon, who was born eight months before Daenerys, who herself was born exactly nine months after the Sack of King's Landing). Eddard returned House Dayne's sword (Dawn). Two days later Ashara killed herself.

So the theory goes that Ashara tipped Eddard off to her brother being with Lyanna at the Tower of Joy. Ashara may not have known about the pregnancy (if that was common knowledge Eddard wouldn't be able to suppress Jon's existence, in fact this may have meant further civil war if it had and placed House Stark in a very VERY weird position. Since there is the possibility the miscarried daughter was a Stark and specifically Eddard's, conceived prior to his marriage to Catelyn, then it paints a clear picture of why she committed suicide.

1) She miscarried the man she loved's child.
2) She miscarried a child.
3) The man she loved married another woman.
4) Said other woman had borne a child to term.
5) She told Eddard where Arthur was, resulting in his death.

The combination of these things in such a short time pushed her into making the course of action she did. Eddard himself feels guilt for all of this, and this guilt and suspicion is probably the true reason talk of Ashara Dayne is banned in Winterfell.
Nice, thanks for the explanation. I knew the basics of it, but definitely not to that detail and I never knew about Ashara being the 1 who tipped off Ned Stark
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