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Old Oct 29, 2012, 09:37 PM   #26
SporkLover
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Originally Posted by Synchromesh View Post
Also, any turbo Subaru will wipe the floor with your Panzerwagen on any race track, street light race or any other competition. Hope that sums it up well for ya.
Same can be said about an old rusted up 3rd generation Fbody with $500 in parts.

The best part is where a Subaru fan tries to sling arrows at other cars about their cheap interior. LOLZ.

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Old Oct 29, 2012, 10:24 PM   #27
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Looking at possibly picking up a new 2013 Jetta SEL w/nav for a daily driver. The SEL is a loaded car, with navigation, Fender stereo, soft touch dash, intelligent access with push button ignition, sunroof, heated seats, power seats, sport seats, ipod hookup, fog lights, etc. A pretty nice package overall for the price, and the inside doesn't have the cheapness that the lower models have, for which the Jetta took a lot of criticism when they were redesigned in 2011 (the lower models I sat in did feel cheap but the SEL seems to take care of that). They are also doing 0.9% on them this month. I'd be looking at an automatic, which is a tried and true traditional 6 speed automatic (as opposed to a dual clutch) with tiptronic and sport mode which is fine with me. Engine is the bulletproof 2.5L inline 5 that VW has had for years and is cheap to maintain as well.

Anyone have any comments/experience with these cars? Given how many they sell (albeit mostly SEs and base models and not SELs), I figure there has to be a few people around here who can comment.
I have the diesel version (2012) and I highly recommend it.
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 10:55 PM   #28
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I bought a 2013 Jetta SE w/sunroof and convenience at start of Oct. (Automatic also because my wife didn't like all my other cars always being manual and she couldn't drive them. Sports mode is a little odd but played with it breifly.) Love it.

I had an 09 Jetta before this and I was worried also a little about the 2011 design when I heard about it; also didn't like they took the all disc brakes off but glad they put them back. Wish I could get the SEL version but to much for me. Also wanted to get desiel but stuck with gas because I really only go 16 miles round trip for work total and rarely get time off to go on road trips.

I loved the shape of the older Jetta also; the body and flare like Audi still has. I didn't really like the shape of my '09 and while the shape of the 11+ are not the old school shape they still look better than the '09 style.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 04:09 PM   #29
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Same can be said about an old rusted up 3rd generation Fbody with $500 in parts.
Bull. A V6 or better yet an Iron Puke-equipped F-body will require quite a bit more than $500 to get anywhere near WRX levels. A V8 version put out somewhere around 230hp with manual so it might require a bit more than $500 too to shave a second off its 0-60.

As for cheap interiors - yes, Subaru has them. But at least they put the money into drivetrains. With VW, it's a lose-lose. Their interiors are now cheap and their drivetrain is still average at best.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 05:37 PM   #30
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Bull. A V6 or better yet an Iron Puke-equipped F-body will require quite a bit more than $500 to get anywhere near WRX levels. A V8 version put out somewhere around 230hp with manual so it might require a bit more than $500 too to shave a second off its 0-60.

As for cheap interiors - yes, Subaru has them. But at least they put the money into drivetrains. With VW, it's a lose-lose. Their interiors are now cheap and their drivetrain is still average at best.
Not everyone cares about having the fastest car out there. Contrary to the belief of fast and furious wannabe ricers, he who has the fastest, loudest car, does not have the biggest penis.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 06:48 PM   #31
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Bull. A V6 or better yet an Iron Puke-equipped F-body will require quite a bit more than $500 to get anywhere near WRX levels. A V8 version put out somewhere around 230hp with manual so it might require a bit more than $500 too to shave a second off its 0-60.

As for cheap interiors - yes, Subaru has them. But at least they put the money into drivetrains. With VW, it's a lose-lose. Their interiors are now cheap and their drivetrain is still average at best.
Ok if you say so. I know it's possible. Tougher with a 305 still doable. Easily achievable with a 350 or a 3.8L T.

Still laughable that a Subaru Fan Boy thinks he can call VW interior cheap. It's a BIG step up from what you are suggesting and the OP is obviously interested in more than magazine bench racing. If he were he would have already bought his box of cracker jacks and pulled out a ridiculous looking WRX like you seem to already have.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 02:19 PM   #32
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I have 2! 2012 and 2013. I have no complaints.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 08:52 AM   #33
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Not everyone cares about having the fastest car out there. Contrary to the belief of fast and furious wannabe ricers, he who has the fastest, loudest car, does not have the biggest penis.
Lol. If I was compensating, I'd go for a BMW. Nothing says tiny penis like a shiny new 3-series or M3.

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Ok if you say so. I know it's possible. Tougher with a 305 still doable. Easily achievable with a 350 or a 3.8L T.

Still laughable that a Subaru Fan Boy thinks he can call VW interior cheap. It's a BIG step up from what you are suggesting and the OP is obviously interested in more than magazine bench racing. If he were he would have already bought his box of cracker jacks and pulled out a ridiculous looking WRX like you seem to already have.
Since when did 3.8T make into Camaro? I'm yet to see one that's not a swap. Show me the proof please. 350 might have the torque but not that much horsepower. $500 will buy you maybe exhaust and intake which might increase your hp by about 15-20hp. Still not fast enough.

VW interiors are comparatively cheap. Compared to their own interiors from a generation or two ago. Either way - if you're buying a car for interior then yes, WRX is not your car. But if you want a fun car for not excessively huge amounts of money and without a crap drivetrain then it is. VW makes decent diesels maybe but none of their cars cars are as fast and yet they're more expensive.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 09:05 AM   #34
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Lol. If I was compensating, I'd go for a BMW. Nothing says tiny penis like a shiny new 3-series or M3.


Since when did 3.8T make into Camaro? I'm yet to see one that's not a swap. Show me the proof please. 350 might have the torque but not that much horsepower. $500 will buy you maybe exhaust and intake which might increase your hp by about 15-20hp. Still not fast enough.

VW interiors are comparatively cheap. Compared to their own interiors from a generation or two ago. Either way - if you're buying a car for interior then yes, WRX is not your car. But if you want a fun car for not excessively huge amounts of money and without a crap drivetrain then it is. VW makes decent diesels maybe but none of their cars cars are as fast and yet they're more expensive.
Actually those early 2000 3-Series people you refer to have pretty much moved to Audi's, and Audi is catering to them and reaping the profit, like it or not. I really considered an S5 until I realized this was happening and just decided I didn't want to be a part of it. Lol. Too bad, owned a number of VW and Audi products in the past. Maybe I'll reconsider when one of the better hatchbacks come over again.

On a side note, I have to say, the hardtop convertible 3 Series has looked pretty amazing the past few years, the profile is even nicer than the coupes.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 01:39 PM   #35
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Since when did 3.8T make into Camaro? I'm yet to see one that's not a swap. Show me the proof please. 350 might have the torque but not that much horsepower. $500 will buy you maybe exhaust and intake which might increase your hp by about 15-20hp. Still not fast enough.
The 3.8T lifted right out of the Grand National was placed between the fenders of some 1,555 '89 Turbo Trans Ams. Firebird and Camaro are sister cars, same thing. TTAs are worth good coin and only going up in value.

Here's the proof:

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...e/viewall.html

The 350 TPI in peak third generation years had 245 hp and 330 ft lbs of torque (engine is an L98, only available with the 700R4 auto). The 305 TPI in peak years had 230 hp and 300 hp (LB9 engine). With the G92 rear axle package which was standard, these were solid mid-14 second cars bone stock. A manual 305 ran neck and neck with the 350 cars. You always hear about the 5.0 Mustangs being the quick cars back then, because every 5.0 was quick, whereas for every LB9/T5 or L98 thirdgen, there were 10 low output 305 TBI/carb cars built. A G92 TPI thirdgen is a quick car, especially considering how dark those days were performance-wise.

Anyway this is all well and good, because I already have a thirdgen Camaro, which I reserve as a summer toy. I'm buying a daily driver, which is why I'm looking at a Jetta and don't really care about performance because it's my A to B car. You're very likely the only person here who would champion beating up on a ragged out 25 year old F-body with a new WRX, so it doesn't really matter since that's not at all what I'm here to discuss.

If you think the VW interiors are cheap, it's duly noted. Beyond that pretty much everything you've said is irrelevant to the topic at hand.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 10:53 PM   #36
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Anyway this is all well and good, because I already have a thirdgen Camaro, which I reserve as a summer toy. I'm buying a daily driver, which is why I'm looking at a Jetta and don't really care about performance because it's my A to B car. You're very likely the only person here who would champion beating up on a ragged out 25 year old F-body with a new WRX, so it doesn't really matter since that's not at all what I'm here to discuss.
Hey, that guy started it and you continued it. So don't put it on me. Regardless, you are right - comparing those 2 cars is silly. WRX runs mid-13s bone stock and then there are just so many other things it does better than a stock 20yo F-body.

Quote:
If you think the VW interiors are cheap, it's duly noted. Beyond that pretty much everything you've said is irrelevant to the topic at hand.
There are lots of things about VWs that suck. Just check the forums. They tend to be unreliable, they're not the fastest for the money (far from it actually) and their interiors became worse. On top of that they're way too expensive for what they are. What else would you like? I'd look elsewhere.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 11:12 PM   #37
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There are lots of things about VWs that suck. Just check the forums. They tend to be unreliable, they're not the fastest for the money (far from it actually) and their interiors became worse. On top of that they're way too expensive for what they are. What else would you like? I'd look elsewhere.
I post on the forums, and I also own one. No problems whatsoever. As I said before, I'm also not keeping it to the age/mileage where it will become hideously unreliable, so that doesn't matter either.

Still don't care about it being fast, not sure what's so hard to grasp about the idea that someone looking at a 170 hp 5-banger with front wheel drive probably just doesn't care how fast it is. It's got enough passing power, and that's all that matters.

For $25k I get push button ignition with intelligent access key fob, heated sport seats, power seats w/lumbar, navigation, fender premium audio w/subwoofer, sunroof, leatherette, soft touch dash, ipod cable hookup, etc. etc.

You get exactly none of that with a $40k 3-series, except the leatherette and *maybe* the iPod hookup. Now that's a car that's way too expensive for what it is. From the looks of it, the Jetta SEL has a lot of bells and whistles for under $25k brand new. I don't know a whole lot of other new cars that come with that much stuff at that price point. The interior of the SEL is quite a bit nicer than the lesser, vanilla Jettas that you mostly see (S/SE). Is it the interior of a CC? No, but it isn't a $34k car either. Is it worse than prior Jettas? At the SEL trim all signs point to that being debatable, but I've spent time in the new SEL and it's certainly not beneath me. It's a perfectly nice interior as far as I'm concerned and I liked it just fine, and the price of the car doesn't break the bank.

Last edited by puma1552; Nov 14, 2012 at 11:17 PM.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 07:48 AM   #38
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I post on the forums, and I also own one. No problems whatsoever. As I said before, I'm also not keeping it to the age/mileage where it will become hideously unreliable, so that doesn't matter either.

Still don't care about it being fast, not sure what's so hard to grasp about the idea that someone looking at a 170 hp 5-banger with front wheel drive probably just doesn't care how fast it is. It's got enough passing power, and that's all that matters.

For $25k I get push button ignition with intelligent access key fob, heated sport seats, power seats w/lumbar, navigation, fender premium audio w/subwoofer, sunroof, leatherette, soft touch dash, ipod cable hookup, etc. etc.

You get exactly none of that with a $40k 3-series, except the leatherette and *maybe* the iPod hookup. Now that's a car that's way too expensive for what it is. From the looks of it, the Jetta SEL has a lot of bells and whistles for under $25k brand new. I don't know a whole lot of other new cars that come with that much stuff at that price point. The interior of the SEL is quite a bit nicer than the lesser, vanilla Jettas that you mostly see (S/SE). Is it the interior of a CC? No, but it isn't a $34k car either. Is it worse than prior Jettas? At the SEL trim all signs point to that being debatable, but I've spent time in the new SEL and it's certainly not beneath me. It's a perfectly nice interior as far as I'm concerned and I liked it just fine, and the price of the car doesn't break the bank.
Seriously dude, just ignore Syncromesh especially when it comes to car advice. If you've seen his previous posts, he's incredibly biased against anything German.
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 08:43 AM   #39
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Seriously dude, just ignore Syncromesh especially when it comes to car advice. If you've seen his previous posts, he's incredibly biased against anything German.
Word, he's also claimed numerous times that anything and everything American is pure junk just because it's American.

Total Subaru fanboi.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 10:50 AM   #40
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I post on the forums, and I also own one. No problems whatsoever. As I said before, I'm also not keeping it to the age/mileage where it will become hideously unreliable, so that doesn't matter either.
I keep hearing that from VW fanbois. "No problems" they say! And then put in a couple of thousand dollars into their car. And then they say "but it's part of regular maintenance schedule. My overlords at VW say so". And then there are quite a few people that owned VW/Audi that I know who swore to never ever buy them again because of how they fall apart. Go figure.

Quote:
Still don't care about it being fast, not sure what's so hard to grasp about the idea that someone looking at a 170 hp 5-banger with front wheel drive probably just doesn't care how fast it is. It's got enough passing power, and that's all that matters.

For $25k I get push button ignition with intelligent access key fob, heated sport seats, power seats w/lumbar, navigation, fender premium audio w/subwoofer, sunroof, leatherette, soft touch dash, ipod cable hookup, etc. etc.
I suppose you're right. If the only things that matter to you are toys, while all else is entirely irrelevant then by all means buy another VW. They love your type.

Quote:
You get exactly none of that with a $40k 3-series, except the leatherette and *maybe* the iPod hookup. Now that's a car that's way too expensive for what it is. From the looks of it, the Jetta SEL has a lot of bells and whistles for under $25k brand new. I don't know a whole lot of other new cars that come with that much stuff at that price point.
Oh man! I can't believe you're making me defend BMW. My best wish for them is that they go bankrupt and never ever make anything again. But that aside - they ARE a different class of car. More sophisticated, much more snooty and their badge is worth more than VW's to most people any day of the week. As for content - yes, a base BMW is a silly joke. Several much cheaper cars will wipe the floor with a 328 at any track or autocross and yet some people buy 3-series anyway. That just proves that there IS one born every minute.

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Word, he's also claimed numerous times that anything and everything American is pure junk just because it's American.

Total Subaru fanboi.
There are a few exceptions. Mustang, Camaro, Corvette are pretty good performance bargains. Would I buy one? No, but can at least respect them somewhat. Then there is pickups and SUVs - some are good, although I'm hardly an expert on these.

But cars, especially smaller ones? Puuuhlease. The Japanese are just so much better (just look at the sales charts) and even Koreans are pretty close. Americans have gotten somewhat better - yes but they're hardly on the same level as Japanese. Don't forget that a lot of "American" smaller cars come with all sorts of various roots: Italian (Dart), Korean (Sonic, Cruze, etc), German (Focus), Japanese (Fiesta). That'd be because Americans wouldn't know how to build small fuel-efficient car all by themselves if one drove up and bumped them in the ass. And sales of Civic/Corolla/Accord/Camry prove just that.

Last edited by Synchromesh; Nov 16, 2012 at 10:57 AM.
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