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Old Aug 24, 2013, 12:22 AM   #301
DUCKofD3ATH
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I'd have no problem with an unchaperoned man leading a girl scout troop. Non-pedos are not attracted to little girls. End of story.
But pedophiles are most often male, so there's a distinct risk to the girls from an unchaperoned male. We have to protect the children. End of story.

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If you're paranoid, I guess. Funny that they don't require female chaperones for male priests, amirite? How about a chaperone of *any* gender, just so they can keep an eye on one another?
Excuse me? Did you miss the Catholic sex abuse scandal? They should have to have chaperones for the priests.

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Why? A gay man is still a man. Like I said, non-pedos are not attracted to little kids.
That last is a non sequitur. Please reformulate it so it makes sense.
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Old Aug 24, 2013, 01:11 AM   #302
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3781713.html

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This "breakdown of manhood" brought on by the inclusion of gay scouts will lead to several new Boy Scout awards, according to Swanson's co-host Dave Buehner, including "the sodomy merit badge."

"And after that I guess itís incest. After that I guess itís the cannibal merit badge," Swanson cut in, adding that the Boy Scouts "are trying to add abomination on abomination, effectively going into Godís word, trying to find the thing that God really, really, really hates the most. The sins listed in the Bible, going through the lists of sins in the Bible, finding the very worst ones and creating merit badges for them is where the Boy Scouts are headed."
It is just beyond me how anyone can be so utterly stupid as to say and believe this crap.
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Old Aug 24, 2013, 07:55 AM   #303
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Originally Posted by DUCKofD3ATH View Post
But pedophiles are most often male, so there's a distinct risk to the girls from an unchaperoned male. We have to protect the children. End of story.
So do you suggest chaperoned male straight and gay men as boyscout leaders?
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Old Aug 24, 2013, 10:22 AM   #304
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So do you suggest chaperoned male straight and gay men as boyscout leaders?
Wouldn't hurt. I think the girl scouts rule to always have two adults in charge, one of them the leader, is a sensible one.
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Old Aug 24, 2013, 10:39 AM   #305
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It's not only sensible, it's logical as all of the known abuse cases happened long before a time when "gay boyscout leaders" were allowed.
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Old Aug 24, 2013, 11:13 AM   #306
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It's not only sensible, it's logical as all of the known abuse cases happened long before a time when "gay boyscout leaders" were allowed.
Being openly gay has been stigmatized for centuries in this country. So you can't say that only heterosexuals committed child sexual abuse, we just don't know the sexual orientation of the abusers.
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Old Aug 25, 2013, 11:01 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by DUCKofD3ATH View Post
But pedophiles are most often male, so there's a distinct risk to the girls from an unchaperoned male. We have to protect the children. End of story.
Yes, pedos are frequently males. And they also frequently target MALE children. So why aren't male boy scout leaders chaperoned?
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Old Aug 26, 2013, 09:02 PM   #308
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Yes, pedos are frequently males. And they also frequently target MALE children. So why aren't male boy scout leaders chaperoned?
To repeat:

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dec.
So do you suggest chaperoned male straight and gay men as boyscout leaders?
Wouldn't hurt. I think the girl scouts rule to always have two adults in charge, one of them the leader, is a sensible one
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Old Aug 26, 2013, 10:36 PM   #309
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Being openly gay has been stigmatized for centuries in this country. So you can't say that only heterosexuals committed child sexual abuse, we just don't know the sexual orientation of the abusers.

No, thats not really the case. Yes we don't have concrete evidence from a good sample, however we have many studies going back many years that show a child is disproportionately more likely to be sexually abused by a married heterosexual man than by an openly gay man.

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbo...lestation.html
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Old Aug 26, 2013, 11:03 PM   #310
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No, thats not really the case. Yes we don't have concrete evidence from a good sample, however we have many studies going back many years that show a child is disproportionately more likely to be sexually abused by a married heterosexual man than by an openly gay man.

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbo...lestation.html
Sigh....

Read what I wrote one more time, then maybe rewrite your post to reflect what I actually said.

We don't know how many closeted homosexuals have sexually abused young boys. But based on research, it's a good bet that some pedophiles were homosexuals. Your response does not refute that.
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Old Aug 27, 2013, 12:27 AM   #311
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Sigh....

Read what I wrote one more time, then maybe rewrite your post to reflect what I actually said.

We don't know how many closeted homosexuals have sexually abused young boys. But based on research, it's a good bet that some pedophiles were homosexuals. Your response does not refute that.
I still don't know what your position is on this matter, as you've been careful to word every response to be as vague as possible.

So...
Should the Boy Scouts allow gay youth?
Should the Boy Scouts allow gay leaders?

Pedophilia should not enter into this discussion at all.
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Old Aug 27, 2013, 12:42 AM   #312
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I still don't know what your position is on this matter, as you've been careful to word every response to be as vague as possible.
Sez you! You've just ignored my clear statements on the matter because it's an emotional argument for you.

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So...
Should the Boy Scouts allow gay youth?
Yup.

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Should the Boy Scouts allow gay leaders?
Yes. As long as there's a chaperone.

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Pedophilia should not enter into this discussion at all.
Well that shows a remarkable lack of understanding of the issues.
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Old Aug 27, 2013, 01:05 PM   #313
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Yes. As long as there's a chaperone.
Then, basically, there should always be a chaperone any time an adult is around children.

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Well that shows a remarkable lack of understanding of the issues.
Not, it really doesn't. The topic of discussion is about gay youth in particular. But gay leaders has come into question as well. Essentially, you have decided that no adults can be trusted with children without extra supervision. Can a man not coach a girls' soccer team without a verified heterosexual female there to oversee him?

I know a lot of gay guys and girls. I would have absolutely no hesitation leaving my child with any of them, any moreso than I would a straight person. There is simply no difference.

It's not me who has a lack of understanding here.
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Old Aug 27, 2013, 01:23 PM   #314
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Being openly gay has been stigmatized for centuries in this country. So you can't say that only heterosexuals committed child sexual abuse, we just don't know the sexual orientation of the abusers.
Of course I can't say that - that's why I never said that.

As you say - we don't know the sexual orientation of the abusers. Isn't it putting the kids at risk if only homosexual scout leaders are being chaperoned?

Also I would consider the fact that an openly gay boy scout leader will be fully aware of the "special attention" he would be getting by parents and colleagues while a pedophile who would enter the boy scouts with the motive of abusing kids most likely would conceal any attention rising sexual orientation themes.
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Last edited by dec.; Aug 27, 2013 at 01:28 PM.
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Old Aug 27, 2013, 01:42 PM   #315
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Then, basically, there should always be a chaperone any time an adult is around children.
I think you can make an argument for that, but good sense should apply. If an adult is going to be taking kids on hikes and such, it's smart to make sure he or she is chaperoned.

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Not, it really doesn't.
Yes, really it does. It makes sense that the Girl Scouts ruling on men as troop leaders is that they have to be chaperoned by a woman. Why do you think that is? (hint: preventing sex abuse).

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The topic of discussion is about gay youth in particular. But gay leaders has come into question as well. Essentially, you have decided that no adults can be trusted with children without extra supervision.
We know that many serial killers are successful because they look trustworthy. Can you make the mental leap here?

----------

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Of course I can't say that - that's why I never said that.
Your post was poorly worded, but rather than ask you to restate it, I responded based on my interpretation. My mistake.

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As you say - we don't know the sexual orientation of the abusers. Isn't it putting the kids at risk if only homosexual scout leaders are being chaperoned?
I think a general rule of having chaperones would be fine. It seems to work for the Girl Scouts.
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Old Aug 27, 2013, 01:42 PM   #316
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Originally Posted by DUCKofD3ATH View Post
I think you can make an argument for that, but good sense should apply. If an adult is going to be taking kids on hikes and such, it's smart to make sure he or she is chaperoned.



Yes, really it does. It makes sense that the Girl Scouts ruling on men as troop leaders is that they have to be chaperoned by a woman. Why do you think that is? (hint: preventing sex abuse).



We know that many serial killers are successful because they look trustworthy. Can you make the mental leap here?
I can.

I see a lot of fear and paranoia coming from posts and stances like this, without even attempting to get into the psyche and general makeup of the person you are stigmatizing. Furthermore, if you are saying that every adult in charge of children needs to be chaperoned, not only will those children not have any friends to hang out with or be around, but your own paranoia will make their lives a living hell by being too protective and overreaching as a parent. Yes, that is your right, but your right ends at someone else's parenting. That goes for being gay, straight, bi, or otherwise.

Again, the problem isn't with the gays and how they handle themselves with children at this point; the problem lies with the thinking and comments you have presented.

BL.
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