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Old Nov 16, 2012, 04:13 AM   #76
rapidfire77
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Originally Posted by seveej View Post
Great post! real quick question as I have to get some sleep.

Has there been any rumors about any of the competitors wanting to adopt retina?

Will comment on the rest soon.

Last edited by rapidfire77; Nov 16, 2012 at 02:53 PM.
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Old Nov 16, 2012, 10:42 AM   #77
bill-p
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I won't go back to that discussion since it's clear neither of us could convince one another regarding that topic.

But since you asked about something else, I think we can discuss it.

Yes, Samsung has shown a Series 9 Ultrabook with a 13" 2560 x 1440 screen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUYlnhDfvlo

It has slightly less pixel than the 13" rMBP (11% less), so pixel density may also be proportionately less. There's no detail on specs, and there's no detail on whether it's a PLS panel (equivalence of IPS from Samsung but likely superior) or just a regular TN panel at higher resolution. But we know it's matte as opposed to glass like on the rMBP.

The current 13" Series 9 has a slightly higher display resolution than the 13" MBA (1600 x 900 vs 1440 x 900) but it's at around the same price point with the same specs. Based to that, I guess you can expect the Series 9 with that "Retina Display" to cost more than the baseline, but hopefully a little less than the 13" rMBP.

And there is still no alternative to a 15" rMBP from any manufacturer from what I can see.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 12:38 PM   #78
rapidfire77
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Originally Posted by bill-p View Post
I won't go back to that discussion since it's clear neither of us could convince one another regarding that topic.

But since you asked about something else, I think we can discuss it.

Yes, Samsung has shown a Series 9 Ultrabook with a 13" 2560 x 1440 screen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUYlnhDfvlo

It has slightly less pixel than the 13" rMBP (11% less), so pixel density may also be proportionately less. There's no detail on specs, and there's no detail on whether it's a PLS panel (equivalence of IPS from Samsung but likely superior) or just a regular TN panel at higher resolution. But we know it's matte as opposed to glass like on the rMBP.

The current 13" Series 9 has a slightly higher display resolution than the 13" MBA (1600 x 900 vs 1440 x 900) but it's at around the same price point with the same specs. Based to that, I guess you can expect the Series 9 with that "Retina Display" to cost more than the baseline, but hopefully a little less than the 13" rMBP.

And there is still no alternative to a 15" rMBP from any manufacturer from what I can see.
Beyond a certain DPI, the eye cannot tell the difference. I understanding that both those resolutions offered by either samsung or apple in the high end screen exceeds the eye's sensitivity. beyond that, all cost comparison is guessing at best. We have seen discounts in the $300-400 for the rMBP and that is a sufficient indicator about the inflated retail price point. Comparing it to other companies will only create confusion. as mentioned before, you can raise the bar saying that the is no screen like that of the rMBP and hence it's unique and deserve the price. by the same token, there is no laptop as thin and light as the series 9, so it also deserves its price.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 02:51 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by rapidfire77 View Post
Ditto DAT! I got the iphone 5...this thing should have been out 2yrs ago, or even at least a year ago to say that it's offering latest technology. Instead...apple banks on the loyalty of its customers and throws them minor upgrades in the same outdated forms. And yes for the awakening, there is a sensitive balance between innovation/quality/price. I feel that Apple is taking advantage of the addiction to its products. You are hooked on our drugs? well guess what...we are the only supplier...so you get to pay a higher price if you want to keep it going![COLOR="#808080"]
.....
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Interesting, seeing as how the A6 processing of the iPhone 5 trounces any other manufacturer's performance. Lighter, faster, LTE, phenomenal...color accurate scree,, mind blowing battery life, great size for single handed operation (I also enjoy Android and am learning 'app' coding on iTunes U through Stanford's free class--I have the original Galaxy Notes and GSIII), the list goes on--it just stops short of NFC, which requires retailers to update their POS systems and will remain irrelevant for another couple years...IMHO of course. The iPhone 5, right now, is the phone to beat--it certainly isn't yesteryear's technology...it's as up to date as can be at this point in 'tech time'


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Originally Posted by rapidfire77 View Post
Glad you took the time to read the posts and that you found the thread idea interesting. I do believe it's a fundamental question that should be asked these days. Getting the most of that question from forum users however is not going to come down to what each individual values in his possession and the price they are willing to pay. The argument isn't to be lost in the term "overpriced" or defining what's innovative or what's not. It is clear that your personal experience and views are countered by opposing experiences and views. My intention is to move above the irrelevant details such as the viewing angle and discuss the subject in broader strokes.

1- When I have to cite a tech source calling the rMBP overpriced when it's a click away...then I know I am dealing with someone that lives in their own bubble knee-jerking over some buried sore point. These are just the economics of things. The price will eventually come down...and you will realize that you paid the early adopter markup...otherwise termed as high priced, overpriced, on the expensive side, etc. You don't have to sell me what you think is innovation, I have my own critical mind for that. You also don't need to exclude me to make yourself the recipient of choice of this acclaimed new technology. At best you have the money or can justify it, you need the cutting edge for whatever you do, you get it and you move on. At worst you, something is missing. you got it and got some lingering guilt so you are here to talk me into a trackpad i have been using since it came out?

2- You gave a good specific examples for niche usages for the iPad and I know that's a segment that is well met with tablets. That's nothing new. I carefully stated productivity referring to the standard work you do multitasking on your computer rather than the niche programs like credit card terminals and restaurant bookings/orders/invoicing or music mixing...basically things that automate a single and specific task formally done by another machine/gadget. You can't be doing 2 things on the ipad simultaneously. My nephew and his posse record on the ipad...big deal!

3- None of the note taking software on the iPad works properly. You name it, I have tried it! if you are clowning around...sure! if you are in class seriously trying to keep up...then you are truly clueless about what it takes. By the time you press the record button, the teacher will hand you and F for been so retarded to try a product not even designed for such a thing. There was a glimpse of hope adding the keyboard and using the pdf editor...try ergonomics in classrooms with various seatings and desks? you simply need the laptop frame to hold it together, and a keyboard/mouse to keep up. There are other developing means of using the iPad in education through interactive learning modules, podcasts, etc. Just anything other than what requires you to freewheel and improvise to produce.

4- Portability is innovation and that is unquestionably the futuristic trend. Whoever trims and lightens is the one that will lead the field. Apple did it for the consumer market with the Air. But their solution for the prosumer isn't as convincing. Not when a product that trails the rMBP according to you in every aspect comes out a little under a full pound lighter and has a profile that is similar to the Air in 15". I've said it before and i will repeat it again, I compare Apple by none other then their own standards. Unlike your claim and in support of the above, the major contributor to Apple good performance in the portables market is largely due to MBA sales in the ultrabook segment. The cMBP is robust and certainly kept in par in terms of components. But it's the same darn thing I have been using since 2007 (Aluminum profile was cleaner looking in my opinion) but it's no longer innovative (What's new that I have not seen before? USB 3.0? REALLY? WOW THAT IS SO TIMELESS!) and is definitely heavy by today's standard for high-end portables. You can lug all your mac store of products around as you may need them all (or not). That could be a sign of strength, productivity, and achievement as much as it could be a sign of self inflation and lack of assertiveness...and redundancy. I carry what I need, unnecessary weight isn't one of them.

I attenuated the earlier exchange with bill-p out of respect to our disagreements. It's clear that it's more important for you to cheer the minor details that serve your impulses then to discuss the bigger picture...Which is my primary interest. You can swell over off-axis viewing all you want...and when you are done, let me know which angle did it for you to see the appropriate color gamut and how godly it was, if it all remained burnt in, if you now understand what a screen means...and for what additional price? I like Apple, I'd like to know where they are heading with there portable lines without projecting my belief onto it all. So, I put a thought provoking question...if you already bought it, then at best...you shouldn't be writing here to argue the term "overpriced".
I believe you're not responding to some of my comments---as I didn'd discuss off axis viewing (albeit it IS phenomenal)...nor did I argue the 'overprice' quote you inferred.

In response to you other counter arguments--again, while I agree it's a compelling query (your OP), but it's YOU that is incessantly arguing against some very knowledgeable and experienced Mac users, typically with YOUR subjective opinion.

1. No--no lingering guilt. I bought two of them if you read my post. I'm very happy with their performance. As a 2010 Mac Pro owner, these new rMBPs are extremely fast, efficient, light-weight, with incredible battery performance. So much so...along with usb3 and TB, we are now using USB3 external HDDs for scratch and finalizing our renders on the new laptops...as well as using Davinci for color correction---as this retina monitor is not only 'sharp', it's extremely 'accurate' as well--@ 99% of sRGB, I don't have to constantly reconnect to our external NECs to correct color---I can now do it in the field on a 4 pound engineering marvel!--Will the price come down? Maybe---typically Apple's prices are very similar...IE, in 2011 a stock 17" was $2500 (What we've been using until retina came around)...upgrade from 4-16GB RAM, slap in a 768 GB SSD and you're well over $3500. I don't mind being an early adopter--A) Because it's a LONG way from being a beta release, it's easily my favorite piece of Mac hardware I've ever purchased---and B) I'm in business for myself and speed = money in my occupation, secondarily it's a 'write off' as a business expense

2/3. NO---you did NOT specify certain iPad productivity possibilities---you simply stated only the uber-nerds have found a way to be productive on an iPad. IMO, you should give your nephew a little more credit for using the iPad with his band...credit to airlines that have replaced 50 pound flight bags with 24oz iPads for charts, maps, checklists, etc. iPads in school are an excellent tool---just because YOU can't figure out a way to make it work reflect not on the many hundreds of students at each university that are doing the same. It's definitely NOT something the teacher is going to fail you for!!! As well, there's a whole LOT that goes into class work that doesn't include note taking. Recording lectures, PDF storage and annotating, the iWork suite works great--dropbox, evernote, even the university app for those students corresponding is awesome! I often use Simple Note and EverNote as I'm currently finishing up a recording class---and with my BT keyboard, there isn't much I'm unable to achieve---if I need the power, I do have a MacBook 11" 2011 Air that travels along for the ride. As far as doing '2 things at one time'---again, this just shows your lack of iOS experience. First---doing college work, there's not much of a need t=for me to have two apps sharing a 10" screen BUT--a simple 4 finger up-swipe you can easily move between apps. Music plays while I'm working if I elect--Browser stays put if I need to move between apps--and app switching is extremely quick using gestures.

3. I think I addressed tasking in college in #2--possibly economics isn't a great example but I don't see it being significantly different vs. using a laptop. Again, they still make pen/pencil and paper---for many tasks that neither a laptop nor an ipad are the best choices

4. "I attenuated the earlier exchange with bill-p out of respect to our disagreements. It's clear that it's more important for you to cheer the minor details that serve your impulses then to discuss the bigger picture...Which is my primary interest. You can swell over off-axis viewing all you want...and when you are done, let me know which angle did it for you to see the appropriate color gamut and how godly it was, if it all remained burnt in, if you now understand what a screen means...and for what additional price? I like Apple, I'd like to know where they are heading with there portable lines without projecting my belief onto it all. So, I put a thought provoking question...if you already bought it, then at best...you shouldn't be writing here to argue the term "overpriced"."

Well maybe you should 'attentuate' our exchange as well---as we will have to agree to disagree. As it seems you have trouble understanding why the 'creative' sector is disqualified from your little world of what is an extremely important sector of iPad production vs. consumption. Again---if you aren't a photographer, videographer, musician (producer, director or conductor), you aren't a pilot...the list goes on---this is (if you own one) most likely the most color accurate screen a consumer can purchase (under $1,000). Even though it was another poster trying to quantify off axis viewing to you---I do agree with him or her. As is the rMBP (I only own the 15"ers--can't speak for the 13s).

Others have mentioned--and I will too, IF there is NO other 'portable' computing device on the market with all the rMBP (or iPad) has to offer, HOW in the WORLD can it be considered 'over priced?'

I still maintain you NEED to take a trip to the gym---anyone that declares the 15" rMBP is TOO heavy and not portable is in pretty bad shape. And before their release, how in the world did you get by all these years owning the uMBP?The unibody construction of the MBP still crushes the build quality and aesthetics of ANY other manufacturer in today's market. Why the desperate need for a redesign??

How can Apple re-revolutionize the laptop form factor any more than they have? In history, typically revolutionary designs are once in a generation for a new product. We get lucky as Apple customers---the iPhone completely changed the smart phone landscape---as did the iPad for tablet computing, then comes the Air---a design Intel banked $300M to help along the OEM Windows crew catch up this year---HUGE failure on their end as nothing comes close...and now, the Retina displays---as much a leap in my opinion as going from SD to HD in television---again, ymmv---but if you're an engineer (CAD), creative type (photo/video/music/art and design, et al), it's a HUGE upgrade and no longer necessitates an external monitor to get the job done

--Hell, occupation aside...even a casual computer user that surfs, emails, and checks FaceBook---the higher PPI/Resolution and phenomenal sharpness is immediately evident!!! SSDs that flat fly! USB3, HDMI, twin TB ports--nice group of I/O options that even Grandma will notice!!

I'm typing on my rMBP right now--next to a 2011 17" MBP and 2011 21.5" iMac, updating to iTunes 11. If nothing else, compare the 'app store' readability on a non-retina display vs retina. That, to me, is a very obvious increase in quality as you can't zoom or increase text in the store

Again, while I find your original query interesting---I can't say the same about a single rebuttal you've come up with

Apple pricing is Apple pricing. If it's 'too high' for you, there are plenty of options available to you. In a year or two, I think every Apple and Mac product will be Retina-Ized...until then, why beat up or discount current adopters as being short-sighted 'thinkers'?

J
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