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Old Nov 12, 2012, 02:26 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by throAU View Post
Because it obviously ISN'T the building's WIFI.

If it works with previous OS X and other machines, then there is some sort of issue with the OS X wireless networking software.

I haven't seen any issues like this, but I only have Cisco and Apple wireless gear.
So it works with previous OSX, other machines, phones etc, but your current version of OSX works with your home WIFI...

What part of this is telling you that OSX is broken? It's obviously a bug between the authentication used on the buildings WIFI that you're not using at home! That doesn't mean that OSX is broken... get the IT dept to update their firmware?
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 02:59 PM   #52
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I'm amazed that issues like this are blamed solely on Apple.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 03:53 PM   #53
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It is Apple's issue. The school uses Bluesocket for the network. The school is new. It opened in November 2010, so we are modern. The network is fine. All up to date. Apple's local engineers came up the other week, and CONFIRMED the network is INDEED setup correctly. A head engineer from CA is coming in early December to further investigate.

THis isn't some half assed network.

These are the access points

http://www.barcodegiant.com/adtran/bluesocket-1840.htm

Now if you guys don't think this is Apple's problem, explain this to me. Mac OSX 10.6.8 and ALL previous versions of OSX, Windows, Linux, and iOS don't have this issue. My computer worked fine with 10.6, and the issue started in Lion. But when I connect an external HDD with 10.6 on it, I'm fine.

That makes it obvious Apple screwed around with the WiFi kext in OSX. It isn't rocket science... just network science

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Originally Posted by dontpannic View Post
So it works with previous OSX, other machines, phones etc, but your current version of OSX works with your home WIFI...

What part of this is telling you that OSX is broken? It's obviously a bug between the authentication used on the buildings WIFI that you're not using at home! That doesn't mean that OSX is broken... get the IT dept to update their firmware?
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I'm amazed that issues like this are blamed solely on Apple.
Why is anyone amazed? And why is it a bug on the building's wifi? It's an industry standard setup. Folks at UMass have this issue, so they don't support Lion/ML. Its a bug with how OSX handles the WiFi configuration.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 03:57 PM   #54
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I'm amazed that issues like this are blamed solely on Apple.
I'm amazed that people will defend apple for software bugs caused by their garbage coding work. Windows 8 is running perfectly on my iMac, unlike ML, oh the irony.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 05:28 PM   #55
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Why is anyone amazed? And why is it a bug on the building's wifi? It's an industry standard setup. Folks at UMass have this issue, so they don't support Lion/ML. Its a bug with how OSX handles the WiFi configuration.
The fact that it's happening in only certain locations seems to indicate it's a pretty isolated issue. To say that this is ALL Apple's fault and that they have been "crappy and sloppy" is a bit of a hyperbole. Many have had no issues connecting to wi-fi networks at home or on university campuses, myself included. If what you say is true, Apple sent their own personnel to ascertain the issue, which is saying a lot to me. It's obviously something that is a bit odd, likely multi-faceted, and probably not related to "sloppy" coding at all.

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I'm amazed that people will defend apple for software bugs caused by their garbage coding work. Windows 8 is running perfectly on my iMac, unlike ML, oh the irony.
Cool story? Mountain Lion has been fine on two of my machines.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 07:12 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by cmChimera View Post
The fact that it's happening in only certain locations seems to indicate it's a pretty isolated issue. To say that this is ALL Apple's fault and that they have been "crappy and sloppy" is a bit of a hyperbole. Many have had no issues connecting to wi-fi networks at home or on university campuses, myself included. If what you say is true, Apple sent their own personnel to ascertain the issue, which is saying a lot to me. It's obviously something that is a bit odd, likely multi-faceted, and probably not related to "sloppy" coding at all.

Cool story? Mountain Lion has been fine on two of my machines.
Sloppiness isn't just that. It also has to do when you hold down the power button to restart (when it locks up) and it spends 2 minutes restoring the many apps and windows you had open even though the "Open all windows when logging in" is UNnchecked! There are also multiple long threads about WiFi issues with Lion and ML. Not just the issues I've experienced. The fact that they changed something in the code for ***** and giggles is being sloppy. It was fine before, so why change it?

Also spotlight indexes Macintosh HD, and does that all the time. You have to stop that, and do a force reindex so it will stop doing it and never finishing. Basically I have to "fix" these issues.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 09:36 PM   #57
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What part of this is telling you that OSX is broken? It's obviously a bug between the authentication used on the buildings WIFI that you're not using at home! That doesn't mean that OSX is broken... get the IT dept to update their firmware?
It works with every other machine?
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 05:31 AM   #58
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It works with every other machine?
And your machine works with your home WLAN...

This can go back and forth as much as you like. You cannot categorically state that wifi is broken on Mountain Lion when you are having compatibility issues with ONE network.

WLANs of this size are generally very complicated and there are many hundreds of settings which could affect a wireless network's ability to serve clients. Sure, someone could have come down from a WLAN company and checked the settings and they're going to say the settings are OK - leave your ML machine with the technicians while they're looking at the network and you can bet your left nut that they'll find a setting on the WLAN controller which will suddenly make your laptop start working again.

On the flip side of the coin, I administer a WPA2 encrypted network at my work and the wireless has continued to work through Snow, Lion, and Mountain. It also works at home, and at any wireless network I have attempted to connect to.

Does this mean I'm lying because your machine won't connect to your school's WLAN that Mountain Lion's wifi is broken?

----------

Oh, and going back to this from the first post:

Quote:
If you take the .kext from SL, and delete Lion or ML's kext, and put SL's kext in place, then the issue is solved. But when there is a 10.8.x update, it breaks it, and things go downhill.
Surely that shows you that the network has a setting which is not compatible with Lion or Mountain Lion. Your network engineers need to sit down with an affected machine (which you've said is all L or ML machines) and change the correct settings until the machine works fine.

Alternatively, you could just, you know, put the SL kext in (which you've done before and it works). There's also a really handy tip for updates too.

Install the 10.8.X update....
... replace the kext

Job done.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 10:05 AM   #59
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I think you're confusing me for the guy with the issue.

I've only been employed as a network admin for what... 18 years now, and currently administer a number of wifi networks for several hundred users, but hey, if you want to try and teach me to suck eggs, be my guest.

I only set up wifi networks for a living for a couple of years, what would I know, eh?
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 10:10 AM   #60
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So apple changed something with how OSX Lion/ML deals with a standard industry setting type WiFi connection. As a result of Apple's change it no longer works.

Apple broke something. It is really that simple.

Fixing it isn't simple. We took the engineer's advice, changed settings, no luck. The engineers were sent out, and are working on the issue. A head engineer from Apple's HQ in CA is coming out in early December. That says a lot about this issue.

The IT guy at my school isn't an idiot. He would have fixed it if it was an issue on our end. It is an issue on Apple's end.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 10:18 AM   #61
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It must be something a bit obscure, I've run OS X against WPA2 enterprise with Cisco gear and it works a treat.

Good to hear apple are sending out an engineer.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 12:01 PM   #62
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The IT guy at my school isn't an idiot. He would have fixed it if it was an issue on our end. It is an issue on Apple's end.
Oh and I'm sure the Apple engineers are complete morons. That REALLY seems likely. The more you talk about Apple trying to remedy your issue, the more ridiculous your accusation seems. They can't figure out the issue, and so they keep sending more and more people. OBVIOUSLY this is not as simple as you make it out to be, and you're not qualified to place all blame on Apple just because you're upset. You don't know the issue, neither does Apple or your IT guy apparently. Probably a quite complicated and isolated issue. That's not sloppiness.

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Sloppiness isn't just that. It also has to do when you hold down the power button to restart (when it locks up) and it spends 2 minutes restoring the many apps and windows you had open even though the "Open all windows when logging in" is UNnchecked! There are also multiple long threads about WiFi issues with Lion and ML. Not just the issues I've experienced. The fact that they changed something in the code for ***** and giggles is being sloppy. It was fine before, so why change it?

Also spotlight indexes Macintosh HD, and does that all the time. You have to stop that, and do a force reindex so it will stop doing it and never finishing. Basically I have to "fix" these issues.
It reopens all the windows because you NEVER SHUT IT DOWN BECAUSE YOU HELD DOWN THE BUTTON. The computer is doing you a favor and reopening your work in hopes that you don't lose anything due to the crash. That option is for when you properly shut it down. Oh and I'm positive that Apple looked at their wi-fi coding and said hey let's mess with people and change up some stuff. Do you REALLY think that? If so, you're kidding yourself.


As for spotlight indexing, have you considered you may have an issue with hardware?
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 12:16 PM   #63
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Oh and I'm sure the Apple engineers are complete morons. That REALLY seems likely. The more you talk about Apple trying to remedy your issue, the more ridiculous your accusation seems. They can't figure out the issue, and so they keep sending more and more people. OBVIOUSLY this is not as simple as you make it out to be, and you're not qualified to place all blame on Apple just because you're upset. You don't know the issue, neither does Apple or your IT guy apparently. Probably a quite complicated and isolated issue. That's not sloppiness.

It reopens all the windows because you NEVER SHUT IT DOWN BECAUSE YOU HELD DOWN THE BUTTON. The computer is doing you a favor and reopening your work in hopes that you don't lose anything due to the crash. That option is for when you properly shut it down. Oh and I'm positive that Apple looked at their wi-fi coding and said hey let's mess with people and change up some stuff. Do you REALLY think that? If so, you're kidding yourself.


As for spotlight indexing, have you considered you may have an issue with hardware?
Tim, is that you?
Yup taking 2 minutes to do me a "favor" there should be an option to disable it. Besides sometimes it reopens the app that locked the system up to start with.

Let me explain this as simple as I can. The network works fine with all devices, except Macintosh computers with Lion or higher.

Snow Leopard works fine. My computer is fine with SL, then with Lion or higher, it doesn't work.

It's Apple's issue. Snow Leopard works, Lion/ML doesn't. Apple changed something. End of the story.

As for indexing being a hardware issue, it's hard to believe they sold us 1500 MacBook Pros with the same HW issue. Also hard to believe Lion/ML caused a hardware issue on the unibody white MacBooks, and my Mid 2010 MBP. It dropped twice while typing this to you.

The engineers also don't admit they cocked up. Remember with the check box not staying checked "Open all windows when logging in" in Lion. IT took forever to fix it, and the engineers never acknowledged it was a bug.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 12:52 PM   #64
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Oh and I'm sure the Apple engineers are complete morons. That REALLY seems likely. The more you talk about Apple trying to remedy your issue, the more ridiculous your accusation seems. They can't figure out the issue, and so they keep sending more and more people. OBVIOUSLY this is not as simple as you make it out to be, and you're not qualified to place all blame on Apple just because you're upset. You don't know the issue, neither does Apple or your IT guy apparently. Probably a quite complicated and isolated issue. That's not sloppiness.

It reopens all the windows because you NEVER SHUT IT DOWN BECAUSE YOU HELD DOWN THE BUTTON. The computer is doing you a favor and reopening your work in hopes that you don't lose anything due to the crash. That option is for when you properly shut it down. Oh and I'm positive that Apple looked at their wi-fi coding and said hey let's mess with people and change up some stuff. Do you REALLY think that? If so, you're kidding yourself.


As for spotlight indexing, have you considered you may have an issue with hardware?
They don't have to be morrons to have bugs in their software. That happens even to the best engineers.

I'm also surprised to the willingness of people here to defend anything Apple related. Remember, you can be critical of Apple and keep liking their products. Why is it that Apple can't have messed up something?
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 12:54 PM   #65
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Tim, is that you?
Yup taking 2 minutes to do me a "favor" there should be an option to disable it. Besides sometimes it reopens the app that locked the system up to start with.
You may be able to disable via terminal. You could speed up the process by installing an SSD. I don't find this to be sloppy. I like the feature.

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Let me explain this as simple as I can.
Don't bother, I understood the first time and think you're being nonsensical.

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As for indexing being a hardware issue, it's hard to believe they sold us 1500 MacBook Pros with the same HW issue. Also hard to believe Lion/ML caused a hardware issue on the unibody white MacBooks, and my Mid 2010 MBP. It dropped twice while typing this to you.

The engineers also don't admit they cocked up. Remember with the check box not staying checked "Open all windows when logging in" in Lion. IT took forever to fix it, and the engineers never acknowledged it was a bug.
I'm not sure why your spotlight keeps indexing. However, to presume that Apple is sloppy because you have an issue still seems silly. Some OTHER people don't have your issue.



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They don't have to be morrons to have bugs in their software. That happens even to the best engineers.

I'm also surprised to the willingness of people here to defend anything Apple related. Remember, you can be critical of Apple and keep liking their products. Why is it that Apple can't have messed up something?
I agree that they don't have to be morons, but with the statement "The IT guy at my school isn't an idiot. He would have fixed it if it was an issue on our end. It is an issue on Apple's end." there is an implication that, since Apple hasn't fixed the problem, that they are idiots. That's nonsensical.

I can be critical of Apple when the time comes for it. I just don't find this topic to be very fair criticism.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 12:59 PM   #66
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Tim, is that you?
Yup taking 2 minutes to do me a "favor" there should be an option to disable it. Besides sometimes it reopens the app that locked the system up to start with.

Let me explain this as simple as I can. The network works fine with all devices, except Macintosh computers with Lion or higher.

Snow Leopard works fine. My computer is fine with SL, then with Lion or higher, it doesn't work.

It's Apple's issue. Snow Leopard works, Lion/ML doesn't. Apple changed something. End of the story.

As for indexing being a hardware issue, it's hard to believe they sold us 1500 MacBook Pros with the same HW issue. Also hard to believe Lion/ML caused a hardware issue on the unibody white MacBooks, and my Mid 2010 MBP. It dropped twice while typing this to you.

The engineers also don't admit they cocked up. Remember with the check box not staying checked "Open all windows when logging in" in Lion. IT took forever to fix it, and the engineers never acknowledged it was a bug.
Thanks for discussion. Sticking with SL. Also, I recall a specific early version of Leopard, 10.5.0 or 10.5.1 did the same thing with my wifi. Had to plug in ethernet to fix while being guided through the problem by Apple a couple of times.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 01:22 PM   #67
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I agree that they don't have to be morons, but with the statement "The IT guy at my school isn't an idiot. He would have fixed it if it was an issue on our end. It is an issue on Apple's end." there is an implication that, since Apple hasn't fixed the problem, that they are idiots. That's nonsensical.
I don't see that implication, and I'm pretty sure the OP wasn't intending for an implication to be there.

He was just trying to state "We did whatever we can on our end, I'm pretty sure if the problem was on our side, we would have found it, it has to be Apple's error". At least that's how I read it.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 03:41 PM   #68
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Oh and I'm sure the Apple engineers are complete morons. That REALLY seems likely. The more you talk about Apple trying to remedy your issue, the more ridiculous your accusation seems. They can't figure out the issue, and so they keep sending more and more people. OBVIOUSLY this is not as simple as you make it out to be, and you're not qualified to place all blame on Apple just because you're upset. You don't know the issue, neither does Apple or your IT guy apparently. Probably a quite complicated and isolated issue. That's not sloppiness.

It reopens all the windows because you NEVER SHUT IT DOWN BECAUSE YOU HELD DOWN THE BUTTON. The computer is doing you a favor and reopening your work in hopes that you don't lose anything due to the crash. That option is for when you properly shut it down. Oh and I'm positive that Apple looked at their wi-fi coding and said hey let's mess with people and change up some stuff. Do you REALLY think that? If so, you're kidding yourself.


As for spotlight indexing, have you considered you may have an issue with hardware?
your logic: "I don't experience any problems, so people who claim to have problems are either lying or they are using it wrong!"

It's not hard to spot the shareholders on this forum. how do you like your garbage apple stocks dropping faster than gravity?
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 04:02 PM   #69
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your logic: "I don't experience any problems, so people who claim to have problems are either lying or they are using it wrong!"

It's not hard to spot the shareholders on this forum. how do you like your garbage apple stocks dropping faster than gravity?
No that's not what I am saying. It's more like: "Just because you're having issues, doesn't mean Apple is sloppy or the OS is broken." This is not a hard concept.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 06:28 PM   #70
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If ML on a given machine works with all other WiFi locations, but not with this particular school's WiFi, it is not logical to conclude that the problem is within OS X.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 01:41 AM   #71
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If ML on a given machine works with all other WiFi locations, but not with this particular school's WiFi, it is not logical to conclude that the problem is within OS X.
Or it maybe a combination of both... Else Apple wouldn't have dispatched engineers onsite...
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