SSD drives in Pegasus J4

[blamblam]

Originally Posted by hfg

I am running OS X 10.6.8+ (the slightly newer build which comes with all 2012 iMac and Mac Mini computers).

They "claim" that the Pegasus J4 is compatible with 10.6.8-to-current. I don't know why the driver isn't loading for you. You might try repairing permissions and re-installing the driver. Or do the "reset PRAM and reset SMC" dance that is the first thing AppleCare always seems to recommend.

-howard

Again thanks. That may be the issue. I have an early 2011 MacBookPro, the first version with Thunderbolt, but there was a firmware update which I installed. I will do the repair permissions. I have already reset the PRAM. I don't know how to reset SMC. Never heard of that one. I'll try to find out how to do that. What is the build of your software? This is mine:

System Version: Mac OS X 10.6.8 (10K549)
Kernel Version: Darwin 10.8.0

best,

Keith

[hfg]

Originally Posted by blamblam

Again thanks. That may be the issue. I have an early 2011 MacBookPro, the first version with Thunderbolt, but there was a firmware update which I installed. I will do the repair permissions. I have already reset the PRAM. I don't know how to reset SMC. Never heard of that one. I'll try to find out how to do that. What is the build of your software? This is mine:

System Version: Mac OS X 10.6.8 (10K549)
Kernel Version: Darwin 10.8.0

best,

Keith

Mine is:

System Version: OS X 10.8.2 (12C2037)
Kernel Version: Darwin 12.2.1

Some SMC Reset info:
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3964?viewlocale=en_US

Some PRAM Reset info:
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1379

I don't know that either of these resets affect the Thunderbolt, but they are always part of the self-run diagnostics from Apple Care support.


-howard

[Giuly]

For hard drives, you should have gotten a Drobo Mini: 4-bay 2.5" plus a mSATA SSD.


As far as the SSDs go, I'd wait for the Crucial m500 or get OCZ Vectors.

[blamblam]

Originally Posted by Giuly

For hard drives, you should have gotten a Drobo Mini: 4-bay 2.5" plus a mSATA SSD.


As far as the SSDs go, I'd wait for the Crucial m500 or get OCZ Vectors.

Hope you have good luck with that. I own a Drobo Pro. I have gone through 3 of them. The present one seems pretty stable. But it was definitely NOT up to video editing as they originally said. Good for back up. That's it. I hope this new Drobo is more stable and faster.

[hfg]

Originally Posted by Giuly

For hard drives, you should have gotten a Drobo Mini: 4-bay 2.5" plus a mSATA SSD.


As far as the SSDs go, I'd wait for the Crucial m500 or get OCZ Vectors.

Drobo Mini is nice looking, but twice as expensive and not as flexible as the Pegasus J4.


EDIT:
One thing intrigues me about the Pegasus J4 and LaCie LBD enclosures ... since all the RAID is done with Apple SoftRaid and the disks appear as native SATA disks, a failure of the enclosure shouldn't be fatal. You should be able to transfer the Array disks to any other enclosure and your data will still be accessible. With hardware raid enclosures, including the Drobo with their "Beyond RAID" technology, if the enclosure fails, you have to buy another identical enclosure from them in order to recover your data (a purchase you may not wish to make again).

[blamblam]

I upgraded to 10.8 and the system allows the installation of the driver and the drive now mounts, etc. thanks for your patient help. So it's official the current Pegasus driver will not install on a MacBook Pro 8,2 running 10.6.8.

Thanks again.

Keith

QUOTE=hfg;16761286]Mine is:

System Version: OS X 10.8.2 (12C2037)
Kernel Version: Darwin 12.2.1

Some SMC Reset info:
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3964?viewlocale=en_US

Some PRAM Reset info:
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1379

I don't know that either of these resets affect the Thunderbolt, but they are always part of the self-run diagnostics from Apple Care support.


-howard[/QUOTE]

[hfg]

Originally Posted by blamblam

I upgraded to 10.8 and the system allows the installation of the driver and the drive now mounts, etc. thanks for your patient help. So it's official the current Pegasus driver will not install on a MacBook Pro 8,2 running 10.6.8.

Thanks again.

Keith

Great ... glad you got it all straightened out. Promise needs to update their specs to reflect that. Let us know how you configure it and how it is working for you.

-howard

[blamblam]

4 tb raid. A demon for speed. I will run some tests and let you know the results. Disk utility seemed intent on me using a 32k partition. Not the best for video. I'll experiment and let you know the settings that work best for me.

I can't thank you enough. Keith

Originally Posted by hfg

Great ... glad you got it all straightened out. Promise needs to update their specs to reflect that. Let us know how you configure it and how it is working for you.

-howard

[trancinchino]

Originally Posted by hfg

I am of the opinion that there isn't a limit cap on the SSDs that can be used in the J4, just that Promise Technology hasn't had the opportunity to actually test it in their labs. I see no reason that if it accepts a 1TB hard disk, that it also wouldn't accept a 1TB SSD (if they are ever affordable). There are a lot of SSD/HD drives out there and it would be very costly and time consuming ($$$) to actually test them all. I think the table which is on the Pegasus J4 web page is simply the handful of drives that they have actually tested, and they "officially" won't recommend any drives that they haven't actually taken to time to test themselves.

I am very happy with my J4 and the flexibility it offers me to mix and match hard drives and SSDs and be able to configure them as I wish.

My only minor gripe is that the J4 requires a driver for the Thunderbolt interface which will prevent OS X or Windows booting from the J4. However, there may be a future solution which will eliminate this.

As you can see from my RAID-0 test results, you can get top-notch SSD performance (500+ MB/s) with a 4TB, 4-drive RAID-0 array of inexpensive hard disk drives today at a pretty low cost. (4 ea. 1TB SSDs today would be $10,000 just for the drives at the current $2500 ea. price)



-howard

Just wanted to give a quick reply to Howard's previous post.

He's correct in that there isn't a limit cap on the SSDs, they just haven't had a chance to do extensive testing. I contacted Promise about their short list of HDDs & SSD's provided and they confirmed that they haven't been able to properly test all the drives on the market. Since the J4 is a relatively new product they will be releasing an updated drive list periodically.

[blamblam]

Originally Posted by hfg

Great ... glad you got it all straightened out. Promise needs to update their specs to reflect that. Let us know how you configure it and how it is working for you.

-howard

Just wanted to let you know:

1. With 10.8.2 Disk Utility would not allow me to create a RAID with a block size over 128k. Not sure why.

2. The best results I was able to get with a 4 disk raid using AJA was
Write: 488.2 MB/s
Read: 500.8 MB/s

But that's with system cache turned off and 16gb file size and a video frame spec of 1920x1080 10-bit RGB.

Not quite what Howard managed to coax out of his iMac, but not bad real world figures for working in video. Of course when you turn the cache on and use a small test file you get absurdly high figures (>4700MB/s) in the read rate and actually lowered figures on the write rate (around 270MB/s).

I'm running this on a MacBookPro 8,2 (early 2011)

Oh and there was LaCie 2tb thunderbolt drive on the same chain ahead of the Pegasus. Don't know if that wd make a huge difference.

BUT: beware: there's no guarantee you'll be able install the Pegasus driver on a MacBook Pro running 10.6.8. I did a force install by installing the driver onto a 10.6.8 disk while booted up on another under 10.8.2 and now I can no longer boot off the 10.6.8 drive externally. I will be taking that up with Promise. Anybody know where the files are I have to get rid of? I could not find the ones you showed in the root/Library/Extensions folder of my 10.6.8 drive.

Keith

PS: Did an install over my copy 10.6.8. Some weird stuff happened but it seems to have gotten rid of the problem of booting. It still doesn't recognize the J4, but I'll settle for just having the drive boot. The tech support people at Pegasus were well meaning but not very experienced. Being a corporate bureaucracy no one would admit it wouldn't run on 10.6.8. One guy said, gee, we only have systems with 10.8.2 around here, so I don't know. Yeah, I think there's a good reason for that: it won't boot on 10.6.8. Unless my system folder is somehow corrupted which I don't think it is.

[sirmacalots]

Less than 2 weeks in with a J4 and it has already died. Looks like it is the PSU as the unit does not power up at all anymore

I will be placing the four drives that I had in the pegasus into a separate enclosure. Data recovery should not be a issue as it was a software raid.

----------

Originally Posted by Giuly

For hard drives, you should have gotten a Drobo Mini: 4-bay 2.5" plus a mSATA SSD.


As far as the SSDs go, I'd wait for the Crucial m500 or get OCZ Vectors.

Drobo's are notorious for being slower than their non proprietary software raided alternatives.

In addition, if your drobo enclosure dies, good luck recovering that data. Even with a identical drobo, they both must be running the same firmware. Got burnt by drobo on their original unit, never again.

The drobo is almost twice as much. It is nice that it has a MSATA port for ssd caching with standard drives. It has less flexibility when it comes to drive RAID configuration, and is slowed down by the Drobo engine.

The J4 may not have many options for raid levels, but its SAS controller is very fast.

All this being said, my J4 was pretty much DOA. I received it on the 22nd, and it just died about an hour ago.

Edit: So I Pulled the drives out and reconnected all of them, able to get the data off without issue.

FYI, a J4 fully loaded with SSD's, the max speed I saw with a raid 0 is 930ish MB/S. Pretty damn fast!!! Sadly, I cant keep all those SSD's in, as they were for testing the speeds only.

[sirmacalots]

Originally Posted by hfg

This is what I see with the Pegasus J4 FW Updater:

Where did you get the firmware updater from? I can not find it anywhere.

[hfg]

Originally Posted by sirmacalots

Where did you get the firmware updater from? I can not find it anywhere.

Should be on the cd that came with the J4 along with the driver.
See page 16 in the manual.

Too bad about your PSU ... let us know how responsive Promise Technology is to replacing it.

What SSDs were you testing with? Nice transfer speeds!

[sirmacalots]

Originally Posted by hfg

Should be on the cd that came with the J4 along with the driver.
See page 16 in the manual.

Too bad about your PSU ... let us know how responsive Promise Technology is to replacing it.

What SSDs were you testing with? Nice transfer speeds!

Ahh, that would be why. I got the driver from the Promise website. No ODD on any of my TB macs, and easier to just download the driver.

I am going to try to get a RMA, as the item was purchased mid jan and just arrived on the 22nd. If RMA fails, I will be contacting promise directly. SSD's are toshibas.

[Santabean2000]

Originally Posted by hfg

You might check out this thread:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthre...1519473&page=2

Here is a performance post I made there regarding the J4:

I received my Thunderbolt Pegasus J4 and loaded it with 4 HGST Travelstar 1TB 7200rpm 2.5" hard disk drives. It is a really nice looking unit.

I found it wouldn't even see the drives without first loading the driver. Once the driver was loaded and rebooted, I used Disk Utility to create different RAID-0 arrays and tested them with BlackMagicDesign "DiskSpeedTest" with 4GB test option. I ran the test on a single disk, and 2-disk, 3-disk, and 4-disk RAID-0 configurations. I also ran the AJA test which produced similar results.

Results:
config ....... Write / Read MB/s
1 disk ....... 115 / 129
2 disk ....... 250 / 258
3 disk ....... 345 / 375
4 disk ....... 501 / 507

I like it!


Of course, running 4 hard disks in RAID-0 ... YOU WILL WANT TO KEEP A GOOD BACKUP STRATEGY!

-howard

...


I replaced one of the hard drives with a Samsung 840 Pro 256GB SSD:
840Pro ....... 316 / 524


I then created a "Fusion" drive in the Pegasus J4 using the 256GB SSD and one of the 1TB hard disks. I left the other 2 hard disks as a 2TB RAID-0 for now. It all seems to work great so far, although now it is a tough decision whether to leave it as a fast 1.25TB Fusion drive ... or a not-quite-so-fast 2TB RAID-0 using two drive bays. Speed vs. Capacity!

------

In reference to a question regarding disk drives:

No, it is not SSD, it is 7200rpm 1TB 2.5" laptop sized drives (4 drives RAID-0)

They are HGST Travelstar HTS721010A9E630 7K1000-1000 :
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._Internal.html

I purchased a kit with the Pegasus J4 and 4 boxed drives from B&H:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...rbolt_SSD.html

Looks like they raised the price ... I paid $725 for the kit on 1/7/13
Looks like the price of the disk drives has gone up a bunch!
EDIT: 1/31/12 ... now it is down to $708 (but out of stock currently)

Hi Howard, sorry hope you don't mind me asking you a question directly; I've found your posts thoughtful and informative.

Just interested in finding out what configuration setups are possible with the J4. For example could I have 3 SSDs in RAID 0 and a single HDD backing up the RAID?

Sorry for the noob question, I have basically no experience with externals with multiple drive bays.


Also, any further feedback on the J4 after more use?


Thanks

D.

[flynz4]

Originally Posted by Santabean2000

Just interested in finding out what configuration setups are possible with the J4. For example could I have 3 SSDs in RAID 0 and a single HDD backing up the RAID?

I would tend to use an independent drive to house the backup HDD. I would want to avoid the situation where the single device (J4) corrupted everything (primary data + backup). It might be overkill... but just my preference.

/Jim

[alphaod]

4x Samsung 840 in a Pegasus J4

RAID 0:


RAID 10:

(Basically a RAID 0 of 2x SSDs for comparison)

[hfg]

Originally Posted by Santabean2000

Hi Howard, sorry hope you don't mind me asking you a question directly; I've found your posts thoughtful and informative.

Just interested in finding out what configuration setups are possible with the J4. For example could I have 3 SSDs in RAID 0 and a single HDD backing up the RAID?

Sorry for the noob question, I have basically no experience with externals with multiple drive bays.


Also, any further feedback on the J4 after more use?


Thanks

D.

Yes, you have independent access to each individual drive, so you can do as you asked easily. However, as mentioned above, having all your data and the only backup in the same enclosure is risky, as a power supply failure could destroy everything.

I use a 2 tier backup with high speed DAS backup in part of the J4, and slower NAS secondary backup in the basement.



-Howard

[Santabean2000]

Originally Posted by flynz4

I would tend to use an independent drive to house the backup HDD. I would want to avoid the situation where the single device (J4) corrupted everything (primary data + backup). It might be overkill... but just my preference.

/Jim

Originally Posted by hfg

Yes, you have independent access to each individual drive, so you can do as you asked easily. However, as mentioned above, having all your data and the only backup in the same enclosure is risky, as a power supply failure could destroy everything.

I use a 2 tier backup with high speed DAS backup in part of the J4, and slower NAS secondary backup in the basement.



-Howard

Thanks for the info; that's what I wanted to hear.

I love the form factor of the enclosure. I'm looking to consolidate my setup at home which has grown in a haphazard way for a number of years now.

Just one other question if you don't mind:
My mini runs 24/7, would the J4 handle being hooked up to this schedule too? I plan on running a mixture of SSDs and HDDs.

Many thanks

[hfg]

Originally Posted by Santabean2000

Thanks for the info; that's what I wanted to hear.

I love the form factor of the enclosure. I'm looking to consolidate my setup at home which has grown in a haphazard way for a number of years now.

Just one other question if you don't mind:
My mini runs 24/7, would the J4 handle being hooked up to this schedule too? I plan on running a mixture of SSDs and HDDs.

Many thanks

I have my J4 connected to a iMac which runs 24/7, however I do let it sleep after a few hours of inactivity and the J4 sleeps as well. As soon as I hit the keyboard both power up and are ready to go by the time I enter my password.

Since I have a 768GB SSD in the iMac, that satisfies my needs for high speed access (OS X, apps, and Aperture photo library). So, after several iterations of J4 configurations, I have settled for now with 4 ea. 1TB 7200rpm hard disks configured as a pair of 2-drive RAID-0 2TB drives. One of the RAID-0 arrays holds archive data, music, video, movie, etc where high speed isn't needed, and the other RAID-0 is a high speed DAS Time Machine backup of both the SSD and the data RAID ... and Time Machine does the same backup to a slower NAS down in the basement on the network.

If I need more SSD storage in the future, my plan is to move the DAS backup drive-array external and create a SSD RAID-0 in the J4 along with the data disks in there currently.

The Pegasus J4 is working really great for my needs.


-howard

[Santabean2000]

Originally Posted by hfg

I have my J4 connected to a iMac which runs 24/7, however I do let it sleep after a few hours of inactivity and the J4 sleeps as well. As soon as I hit the keyboard both power up and are ready to go by the time I enter my password.

Since I have a 768GB SSD in the iMac, that satisfies my needs for high speed access (OS X, apps, and Aperture photo library). So, after several iterations of J4 configurations, I have settled for now with 4 ea. 1TB 7200rpm hard disks configured as a pair of 2-drive RAID-0 2TB drives. One of the RAID-0 arrays holds archive data, music, video, movie, etc where high speed isn't needed, and the other RAID-0 is a high speed DAS Time Machine backup of both the SSD and the data RAID ... and Time Machine does the same backup to a slower NAS down in the basement on the network.

If I need more SSD storage in the future, my plan is to move the DAS backup drive-array external and create a SSD RAID-0 in the J4 along with the data disks in there currently.

The Pegasus J4 is working really great for my needs.


-howard

Thanks Howard for your time in responding.

I find the J4 to be an intriguing and strangely alluring in its petite form factor. I'm tryi g to streamline my setup and make it all a little more organised and discrete.

I have two small SSDs and a couple of 500GB HDDs free at the moment that I could throw in and play around with while I decide what's my best option moving forward.

The basic use I can see it having is to hold my media files (800GB) for my Mac mini and as a Time Machine destination for my work MBP (300GB) and wife's MBA (80GB)

Any suggestions on an ideal config? (I'm open to buying up to 256GB SSDs + other HDDs as required; current iTunes library about 800GB, but likely to blowout to closer to 2TB over the next year or so.)

Others welcome to chime in too.

Any help appreciated.