BlackBerry CEO Says Despite a 'Fantastic Job' With iOS Design, Apple Now Lacks Innovation

[iamthedudeman]

Originally Posted by Renzatic

I know. I'm double posting to the same reply. But hell. I can't resist.

I DEMAND MY $600 SMARTPHONE BE MADE WITH THE BEST BEER CAN MATERIAL MONEY CAN BUY!

ALUMINIUM! THE FANCIEST OF METALS! IT'S LIKE PLATINUM FOR COOL PEOPLE WITH DISCERNING TASTE!

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Innovation innovation innovation. I swear I could go the rest of my life without hearing that word again.

Tell me this. What has Apple done since the iPad that's been truly innovative to you?

Well metal and glass, or plastic. Hard choice.

Over the last six years what company has had more innovation than Apple?They invented the modern Smartphone, Tablet, created a ecosystem that all others emulate. The list goes on and on.

Look at the smartphone landscrape before the iphone, and then after. Hell Android looked alot different than it does now before the iphone. Even Android is a copy. They changed the way the game was played. That was and is innovation. Not hover finger. Or pause when you are you turn your head.

All others are emulating them and their business model. For good reason.

Samsung is most certainly. Emulating their phones, as well as business model. Can you say Tizen? They want to control the complete user experience, from hardware to software. Just like Apple.

I tested the some of the very first Android device's that were avail. That was back before the iphone in Dec 2006. It's form factor and OS was very similar to Blackberry and Symbian at the time. Fast foward to March 2007, and the form factor changed, to guess what, like the iphone. Lets not forget that the iphone was shown off to the public in Jan 2007.

This phone had a plastic screen and ran webkit. It was capactive touch. Here is a perfect video showing both devices.

http://blog.steventroughtonsmith.com...oogle.html?m=1

[Oletros]

Originally Posted by iamthedudeman

I tested the some of the very first Android device's that were avail. That was back before the iphone in Dec 2006. It's form factor and OS was very similar to Blackberry and Symbian at the time. Fast foward to March 2007, and the form factor changed, to guess what, like the iphone. Lets not forget that the iphone was shown off to the public in Jan 2007.

Really? Do you tested some secret smartphone that was never shown on public?

[PS8409]

Originally Posted by GermanyChris

You made an assessment based on no knowledge good call doc (doc doesn't imply PhD/MD)

Yup smart phone OS's are complicated you touch the thing you want to do..

We live in the 21st century if you think a smart phone OS is bad think of all the options you have on an ATM machine, online banking, Scottrade etc. yet you wasted precious time leaning those in their time. Through all of you 24 hour a day shrink work load you find time to post on Mac Rumors telling us about the time you don't have. I'm not seeing the time crunch

Amazing people work 100+ hours a week and can still learn new things off the job. People work 60 or 70 go to school college and have time play with their kids, but you can be bothered with a different smartphone OS

Lol you're absolutely right. All my degree left me with was a ton of debt and no job LOL thanks for being so open with everyone. U got spunk just like Steve Jobs. Lol u might hate apple but u got stuff in common with its creator. Good luck dude

[rdlink]

Originally Posted by NakedPaulToast

So you've been administrating BBs for almost 14 years and you don't recognise the simple fact that the ability to even be able to administrate phones is an innovation.

First of all, the word you're searching for is administer.

Second, as I have already said in a previous post, BB's strength was push email, and the ability to manage security for enterprises. But the only place they innovated was the push email area. Numerous platforms were capable of enterprise administration in the 90s, including Palm.

Do a little research before you spout off, please.

[williamseye]

Apple patents in idea and a month later Samsung releases some half-baked knockoff idea that sounds good on paper but really doesn't work. The facial recognition phone unlocked is a perfect example. Apple patented the idea of a three-dimensional facial recognizer that there no doubt working on right now but Samsung gets the benefit of the buzzwords in their advertising even though you can unlock their phone with a photograph. The only thing Apple is losing is the PR war which unfortunately is part of user experience, if you're listening Tim Cook how about some hard-core advertising to put these plastic lemons in their place. As for BlackBerry they need all the Free Press they can get because the running out of money. By the way, I heard BlackBerry was going to put a real rotary dial on their new smart phone to make it easier for 80-year-olds to use.

[Oletros]

Originally Posted by williamseye

The facial recognition phone unlocked is a perfect example. Apple patented the idea of a three-dimensional facial recognizer that there no doubt working on right now but Samsung gets the benefit of the buzzwords in their advertising even though you can unlock their phone with a photograph

Samsung didn't implemented a face unlock mechanism. What Apple patent are you talking about?

[NakedPaulToast]

Originally Posted by rdlink

First of all, the word you're searching for is administer.

Second, as I have already said in a previous post, BB's strength was push email, and the ability to manage security for enterprises. But the only place they innovated was the push email area. Numerous platforms were capable of enterprise administration in the 90s, including Palm.

Do a little research before you spout off, please.

No, the word I was looking for was administrate, synonymous with administer. Look it up.

And I was pretty clear about phones, tell me what Palm phone were you administrating in the 90s?

[nofear1az]

Originally Posted by macse30

Is it really iOS that is stale or the user interface on the front? Does the OS function smoothly to allow good apps to work and malicious or defective apps to be harmless? Do apps have a reasonable set of tools to access the data and hardware they need without compromising security? Hasn't Apple continued to refine the best mobile OS out there?

People think a few slick tiles with live cam feeds of other people's lives and flowing ticker signs showing the current value of your stock of social contacts will make this a better phone.

The user interface is stale. I don't think iOS is stale.

you're right - DOS wasn't stale, why replace it. It was simple...er...than...Unix. Could do far less than Unix. Why do we need GUI interfaces for? keep it simple.

yes, it's stale. you don't stay in 1st grade all your life, you progress and learn more complex things. iOS compared to Android is stale. Heck even Palm's WebOS was more innovative. Look, if it wasn't stale you wouldn't have people reaching for a Jailbreak so they could do more stuff. The Lock screen alone could use hefty improvements.

[quickmac]

Originally Posted by appleii.c

The reason Blackberry suffered and maybe ultimately failed, was not failure to innovate. is was failure to keep up with the times. This is why I ask, what SHOULD the UI do? Apple is not at risk of falling into the same fate as BB. They don't need to always innovate. Google didn't innoveate with a mobile OS, Samsung didn't innovate with a smartphone. They mostly just kept current and are both extremely successful. Now, if the industry advances, and the iOS UI fails to, at the very least, "keep up". Sure they will fail, as BB has, as Windows did in the mobile market. There is much much more to apples UI than the look and shape of the icons.

But I'm asking a serious question... what do they need to do to "freshen" the UI and keep it ahead of the competition? How is it falling behind?

Failure to keep up with the times is part of failure to innovate. Blackberry gives Apple credit for creating the modern smartphone market, but their iOS is getting blown away by newer Android OSes and Blackberry 10 in terms of functionality, design, and multi-tasking. Apple IS at the same risk as Blackberry was a few years ago for a failure to keep up with the times. Show someone iOS from 2007 and 2013 who has no experience with Apple and they'll say "it's the same thing." That's a lack of innovation. Consumers are fickle. Some users (like other platform users) will stick to iOS as long as it exists. But in consumer marketplaces sometimes that's not enough to stay relevant. Early reports of the Z10 pre-orders in other countries let alone the US show that Blackberry is showing off something fresh and new, and the average consumer wants that, not something that appears "so 2007."

[rdlink]

Originally Posted by NakedPaulToast

No, the word I was looking for was administrate, synonymous with administer. Look it up.

And I was pretty clear about phones, tell me what Palm phone were you administrating in the 90s?

I wasn't administering Palms in the 90s. My company was adopting BBs, because of their push mail capability. And every user of a BB back then carried a separate cell phone. And quite a few carried Palms also, because BB sucked as a PDA. It wasn't until later, when BB learned from others what a PDA should be that their devices actually started to be useful PDAs. But they didn't innovate anything in that realm.

And if you were actually up on your history you would know that BB didn't release their first device with a phone until 2003, which is later than a Palm phone was released.

And now for your grammar lesson:

Administer is the verb form for administration or administrator.

The word administrate is an incorrect form of the verb created by some who drop the -ion suffix of administration.


Incorrect: He did a great job of administrating the estate.
Correct: He did a great job of administering the estate.

Be careful when forming verbs from nouns that end in -ation, as the correct verb form may not end in -ate.

http://englishplus.com/grammar/00000172.htm

And then there's this: http://itknowledgeexchange.techtarge...or-administer/

[IGregory]

Okay, I must not understand what innovate means. According to Apple dictionary, you know the one where all the apps are on our Macs, innovate means:

[ no obj. ] make changes in something established, esp. by introducing new methods, ideas, or products:

[ with obj. ] introduce (something new, esp. a product): innovating new products, developing existing ones.

With that in mind, less than a year ago at Apple's WWDC 2012, the following products were introduced. I believe they qualify as being innovative. i believe the iphone 4S and 5 slipped in there somewhere.

Then in December of 2012 Apple did this. In just over two months from today WWDC 2013 will take place. I'm guessing, but I suspect Apple will have products that meet the definition of innovate.

So, I'm wondering why all the complaining.

[MrNomNoms]

In all due respects to the gentleman running Blackberry/RIM I find it funny how a company whose product had a strangle hold on the market only to lose it once a better product came around still doesn't get 'it'. What that tells me that he should be doing more soul searching on himself before criticising the competition. End of the day the moment that Android and iPhone rose I saw people dropping their Blackberry left, right and centre - not because they were trendy but because users were sick and tired of crashing, freezes, poor reliability etc. but everyone kept using it because it was the only 'kid on the block' which had the functionality people wanted.

When it comes to iOS - why the hell should anyone remotely care about 'new features' and 'innovation' because at the end of the day when I plonk down NZ$1349 for a 64GB iPhone 5 my decision isn't based on 'ooh' and 'aah' but whether it gets the job done with minimal fuss and bother. iOS might not be 'trendy' or 'hip' but it gets the job done - I've tried trendy and hip (Nokia Lumia 920) and it left a bitter taste in my mouth after dealing with month of Nokia denial over the constant freezes I was experiencing.

[MacMulti]

did he just tight slap his own mouth ?

[katewes]

Originally Posted by PS8409

Dude u just insulted the majority of the population. I've got a degree in psych and I was wary of using the iphone the first time because it looked complicated. It's not, however, but its easy to use interface gets nearly everything done in a much quicker and easier way than any android or other phone (except a Jitterbug lol). I owned a Droid X2 for work and hated it. I used it for calls and messages; sometimes for Internet. It's not that people are stupid. They just don't want to dedicate their precious time to learning a very complicated OS. You make yourself look stupid by not seeing this, IMO.

Dude, you might have a university degree, but you're from the generation that has been inculcated with SMS terminology that you can't express anything in complete sentences without breaking into SMS jargon. Bosses who employ people from certain younger generations now have to read books on understanding the attitudes of these types of people. Apple had to take into account that the population is like that now, but you do not challenge the fact that "dumbing down" is an apt description. A society becomes dumbed-down when large segments of that population become dumbed-down. But the people within that segment don't realise that they are dumbed-down because everyone in their culture acts the same way and they think it is normal. When entire segments of the nation become dumbed-down, very rarely do average, run-of-the-mill people have the strength of character to swim against the tide. Most people get sucked into the safety of being one of the crowd, rather than being a true individual. As a test, review all your MacRumors posts, and calculate the percentage of them that avoid any SMS jargon. And then go to the psychology library and read some books about your generation. I'm not in the habit of insulting strangers whom I've never met, but I do reserve the right to defend myself against taunts.

[theanimaster]

Originally Posted by applesith

Blackberry never had innovation so they don't know what it means.

Yes, Apple needs to step it up but BB should be the last one to throw a shot.

Actually, that's the thing. They KNOW what it means to be un-innovative.

[andrews04]

And blackberry lacks everything

[NakedPaulToast]

Originally Posted by rdlink

I wasn't administering Palms in the 90s. My company was adopting BBs, because of their push mail capability. And every user of a BB back then carried a separate cell phone. And quite a few carried Palms also, because BB sucked as a PDA. It wasn't until later, when BB learned from others what a PDA should be that their devices actually started to be useful PDAs. But they didn't innovate anything in that realm.

And if you were actually up on your history you would know that BB didn't release their first device with a phone until 2003, which is later than a Palm phone was released.

And now for your grammar lesson:

Administer is the verb form for administration or administrator.

The word administrate is an incorrect form of the verb created by some who drop the -ion suffix of administration.


Incorrect: He did a great job of administrating the estate.
Correct: He did a great job of administering the estate.

Be careful when forming verbs from nouns that end in -ation, as the correct verb form may not end in -ate.

http://englishplus.com/grammar/00000172.htm

And then there's this: http://itknowledgeexchange.techtarge...or-administer/

I never made the claim that BBs have had a phone since prior to 2003.

And that second link verified that administrate is a word and synonymous with administer. As did every online dictionary I went to.

But keep on moving the goal posts, and attacking straw men.

There are a few spelling errors in people's posts, you should probably go correct them as well.

[Wicked1]

Ha BB is just jealous, their phone and OS is not getting good reviews at all. I guess BB CEO might as well blast Apple before his ship goes down and he gets like a Billion Dollar golden parachute

[appleii.c]

Originally Posted by Chupa Chupa

Right, but your opinion doesn't trump the fact Apple, today, actively and openly markets iOS devices as content creators both with its own content creation apps, in marketing materials, and in ads featuring 3rd party content creation apps. If its going to do this then it needs to update iOS to better fit that purpose. You can't argue "one day..." because Apple is suggesting it now.

As I said before, it can be used for all those business functions, and used pretty well. But today, actively, it is not "primarily" marketed as a business device to create documents, websites, reports etc. It's primary marketing strategy is the facetime, photos, movies, books, siri, games, maps, email etc.

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Originally Posted by quickmac

Failure to keep up with the times is part of failure to innovate. Blackberry gives Apple credit for creating the modern smartphone market, but their iOS is getting blown away by newer Android OSes and Blackberry 10 in terms of functionality, design, and multi-tasking. Apple IS at the same risk as Blackberry was a few years ago for a failure to keep up with the times. Show someone iOS from 2007 and 2013 who has no experience with Apple and they'll say "it's the same thing." That's a lack of innovation. Consumers are fickle. Some users (like other platform users) will stick to iOS as long as it exists. But in consumer marketplaces sometimes that's not enough to stay relevant. Early reports of the Z10 pre-orders in other countries let alone the US show that Blackberry is showing off something fresh and new, and the average consumer wants that, not something that appears "so 2007."

I don't think it necessarily needs to be Innovation that keeps a company successful. Android hasn't exactly innovated. Mac OSX hasn't exactly innovated, neither has Samsung. I think more important is evolution. If Apple is not going to innovate as much in the near future, as long as they continue to evolve with the latest trends and technologies, they will continue to be successful.

That shiny new restaurant that opened up in town might get many new customers, but there still has to be something to keep them coming back.

[Chupa Chupa]

Originally Posted by appleii.c

As I said before, it can be used for all those business functions, and used pretty well. But today, actively, it is not "primarily" marketed as a business device to create documents, websites, reports etc. It's primary marketing strategy is the facetime, photos, movies, books, siri, games, maps, email etc.[COLOR="#808080"]

Right. Check the recent front page article regarding the DOD buying 240K iPads.

No offense, but you are Fan Boy of the year if you don't think iOS needs an overhaul to better serve those who do use the iPad as a content creation device, and also for trying to cover for Apple when Apple itself is positioning the iPad as a content creation device.

Anyway, this discussion is overdone now. Neither one of us is going to convince the other so we'll have to do the cliched agree to disagree thing.

[appleii.c]

Originally Posted by Chupa Chupa

Right. Check the recent front page article regarding the DOD buying 240K iPads.

No offense, but you are Fan Boy of the year if you don't think iOS needs an overhaul to better serve those who do use the iPad as a content creation device, and also for trying to cover for Apple when Apple itself is positioning the iPad as a content creation device.

Anyway, this discussion is overdone now. Neither one of us is going to convince the other so we'll have to do the cliched agree to disagree thing.

Oh C'mon, man. Don't be "that forum guy" who starts using the "fanboy" card.

First of all, the ONLY thing I'm disagreeing with you on, is what iOS is RIGHT NOW. I personally dont believe it's main function right now, the main feature Apple is touting is it's content creation. MAIN feature. as I've said, it CAN be used for that, and used well, but RIGHT NOW they market it as a consumption device. If you read my previous posts, I've said that i agree that it is capable of business/creation uses (i've even used it myself for business). Couple of my own quotes from these posts:

"Personally, I think it WILL become a true business capable machine.."

"I wouldn't be surprised if they create a PowerPad in the NEAR future..."

I think it will be a great PC replacement... in the future. And it SHOULD. I just think this whole "need to innovate or they'll fail" idea is blown way out of proportion. As long as they continue to evolve to what the market wants/needs, they'll be just fine.

You made great points, and have a good point of view on it. I just dont agree completely with what you're saying. Both of us are probably right and wrong on some of our views.

btw, nice footer quote.

[Chupa Chupa]

Originally Posted by appleii.c

Oh C'mon, man. Don't be "that forum guy" who starts using the "fanboy" card.

First of all, the ONLY thing I'm disagreeing with you on, is what iOS is RIGHT NOW. I personally dont believe it's main function right now, the main feature Apple is touting is it's content creation. MAIN feature. as I've said, it CAN be used for that, and used well, but RIGHT NOW they market it as a consumption device. If you read my previous posts, I've said that i agree that it is capable of business/creation uses (i've even used it myself for business). Couple of my own quotes from these posts:

"Personally, I think it WILL become a true business capable machine.."

"I wouldn't be surprised if they create a PowerPad in the NEAR future..."

I think it will be a great PC replacement... in the future. And it SHOULD. I just think this whole "need to innovate or they'll fail" idea is blown way out of proportion. As long as they continue to evolve to what the market wants/needs, they'll be just fine.

You made great points, and have a good point of view on it. I just dont agree completely with what you're saying. Both of us are probably right and wrong on some of our views.

btw, nice footer quote.

I'm not "that" guy. I've been on MR since almost its beginning and I rarely call someone a fan boy unless they are so slavish to Apple that they can't see areas where improvement is needed.

But I think in the case of this conversation there might be a misunderstanding on my point which is that:

iOS OS started as a primarily content consuming OS for the iPhone and in the 5+ years users and Apple itself have evolved to the point where the iOS devices are uses for creating content as much as consuming it. BUT the iOS itself is pretty much the same OS introduced in '07 with a few improvements along the way. It's time for Apple to overhaul iOS to meet current and future content creating needs. That is my only point.

Imagine if Apple stuck with Mac OS 9 instead of doing the complete Mac OS 10 modernization overhaul. I don't think Macs would exist right now because even in 2000 OS 9 was becoming cumbersome. That is where iOS is right now. It needs to be updated for the future.

[xcodeaddict]

It saddens me that grown men bicker over their companies like jealous children. Apple succeeded, you are failing; noone knows if BlackBerry will rise from the ashes, but I'm certain that childish jabs don't help your image much.

Innovate something yourself; Apple has, so has Google with Android. Be happy for the competition, and try harder yourselves, so you can clamber out of the sinking ship you're in. It's not gone under quite yet, so try harder and don't waste time bickering.