DoJ Claims Apple Implemented In-App Purchase Rules to 'Retaliate Against Amazon'

rjohnstone said:

What infrastructure?

Beyond the store's front end (web servers) and a trivial amount of storage for the actual app, (which doesn't cost billions btw), the rest of the infrastructure (payment processing, app content storage, iCloud storage, etc.) is not required by companies like Amazon or Netflix since they host their own content and can process payments themselves.
They don't depend on a huge chunk of what Apple WANTS them to depend on.

Without apps, the iPhone and iPad are fairly limited in what they do out of the box.
If every dev left today, the iOS platform would wither and die pretty quickly.

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This.

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BaldiMac said:

The whole iOS ecosystem.

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I didn't realize that the DOJ could force Apple to do stuff because they think it's unfair. I figured that Apple had to break some sort of law. Home court advantage isn't illegal.

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The whole iOS ecosystem? What is that? iOS is an operating system and we use the same developer tools to create our own software programs for it like we've been doing for MS and the Mac for years. The difference right now is that Apple has forced the In-App and 30% head tax on many developers. In OS X, it's not like this. And you can still go to Google to buy an App direct from the developer and install it outside of an Apple virtual software store.

Apple's In-App purchasing is a payment processor. The average transaction fee is 2% in business with payment processors. Apple doesn't host our content. Apple's not responsible to our end customers other than an In-App purchase related issue on their end. Even if they wanted to help our customers, they couldn't... because they have nothing to do with our business or software.

The App Store is nothing more than an index... a search engine, just like Google. Imagine if Google took 30% of all of your revenues if someone came to your site from their index?

And here's something to make your little brain hurt: imagine if Microsoft charged Apple 30% on all of their iTunes Store for Windows revenue...

The point the DOJ made here is that Apple lied in court saying every developer gets charged 30% on their revenues... that they all have to use the In-App purchasing. Well, it turns out that's not the case at all. Zappos, and other like it, as the DOJ pointed out, don't have to use Apple's In-App purchasing. With the Steve Jobs Email layered in, it's clear and as the DOJ advanced... Apple changed their policy to discriminate against a subset of developers because Apple's anti-competitive.

booksbooks said:

This.The whole iOS ecosystem? What is that?

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The devices, services, software and infrastructure built around iOS.

iOS is an operating system and we use the same developer tools to create our own software programs for it like we've been doing for MS and the Mac for years. The difference right now is that Apple has forced the In-App and 30% head tax on many developers. In OS X, it's not like this. And you can still go to Google to buy an App direct from the developer and install it outside of an Apple virtual software store.

Apple's In-App purchasing is a payment processor. The average transaction fee is 2% in business with payment processors. Apple doesn't host our content. Apple's not responsible to our end customers other than an In-App purchase related issue on their end. Even if they wanted to help our customers, they couldn't... because they have nothing to do with our business or software.

The App Store is nothing more than an index... a search engine, just like Google. Imagine if Google took 30% of all of your revenues if someone came to your site from their index?

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Yep.

imagine if Microsoft charged Apple 30% on all of their iTunes Store for Windows revenue...

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Just as shocking to imagine as the first dozen times it was brought up in this thread.

The point the DOJ made here is that Apple lied in court saying every developer gets charged 30% on their revenues... that they all have to use the In-App purchasing. Well, it turns out that's not the case at all. Zappos, and other like it, as the DOJ pointed out, don't have to use Apple's In-App purchasing. With the Steve Jobs Email layered in, it's clear and as the DOJ advanced...

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Yep.

Apple changed their policy to discriminate against a subset of developers because Apple's anti-competitive.

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And then you make the logical leap. Apple changed their policy for all digital content that can be utilized in app as a way to prevent developers from bypassing app sales revenue sharing by offering free apps with third-party IAP.

BaldiMac said:

The whole iOS ecosystem.

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Is not "infrastructure". Get a dictionary.

A HUGE part of that "ecosystem" is third party developer created apps and content that Apple relies on to sell it's devices and "other" services.
It's a mutually beneficial relationship, but not one that will last forever if Apple keeps making more demands for revenue share of things they have no hand in creating.
Without these third party Devs, iOS devices would be akin to a feature phone.

Apple knows they have the upper hand by artificially limiting where one can get apps for their devices.
There is no consumer choice within the iOS "ecosystem". It's Apple's way or the highway.
They need to be careful here. At some point they are going to make it untenable for any Dev to offer quality goods without sacrificing too much for the sake of Apple's bottom line. They will eventually pack up and head to another platform.

rjohnstone said:

Is not "infrastructure". Get a dictionary.

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Sure it is. Here's the first definition that came up when I searched:
"Infrastructure is basic physical and organizational structures needed for the operation of a society or enterprise, or the services and facilities necessary for an economy to function."

From Merriam-Webster:
"the underlying foundation or basic framework (as of a system or organization)"

Works for me.

A HUGE part of that "ecosystem" is third party developer created apps and content that Apple relies on to sell it's devices and "other" services.
It's a mutually beneficial relationship, but not one that will last forever if Apple keeps making more demands for revenue share of things they have no hand in creating.
Without these third party Devs, iOS devices would be akin to a feature phone.

Apple knows they have the upper hand by artificially limiting where one can get apps for their devices.
There is no consumer choice within the iOS "ecosystem". It's Apple's way or the highway.
They need to be careful here. At some point they are going to make it untenable for any Dev to offer quality goods without sacrificing too much for the sake of Apple's bottom line. They will eventually pack up and head to another platform.

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Absolutely. Which part did you think that I was unaware of or disagree with?

BaldiMac said:

Sure it is. Here's the first definition that came up when I searched:
"Infrastructure is basic physical and organizational structures needed for the operation of a society or enterprise, or the services and facilities necessary for an economy to function."

Absolutely. Which part did you think that I was unaware of or disagree with?

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I was referring to the physical infrastructure.

BaldiMac said:

Absolutely. Which part did you think that I was unaware of or disagree with?

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Sorry...
4 hours sleep, bad coffee and one functioning contact lens... stepping away from the keyboard until more caffeine and a replacement lens are in place.

Oletros said:

No,before the Apple store they didn't sold a ton of iPhones and if you think that developers leaving the App Store or Google Play won't affect sales then you're in denial.




Wrong, there was mobile app stores before, Apple streamlined them




If they have another platform and people leave iOS/Android for them no, they won't be shooting in their foot



Wrong, they will have a good job

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Read it again, I never said they invented App Store, I said they made it popular! Never said they would still be the same without App Store, I clearly said its a win with both and that it's a team effort!
Who would the developers develop for if they left Apple & Android?
Just for the record I work with developers and they read what you said about leaving App Store, their statement was you clearly don't know what your talking about!!!
They need iOS & Android just the same! As I said before it's a team effort and the App Store is the greatest thing that happened for developers!
What good job would they have without iOS or Android? Developing for BB or Windows Mobile? What platform are you referring to?
Like you say IF their is another platform. I'm talking about walking out now, without somewhere to go it is shooting yourself in the foot.
Your reply was draining, I'm done with this thread! Nothing will get anti Apple people to understand what the App Store has done for all Apps & developers as well as what together they have created! Apple made phones do more then anyone thought they could just ask BB.
They also created a usable tablet that changed the way we are using computers, do business and it just keeps evolving with the use of smart phones.
Are you also saying before the App Store when iPhone first came out there wasn't millions sold? I don't have the stats but I do know they sold faster then they could make them!

Goodnight again

rjohnstone said:

Is not "infrastructure". Get a dictionary.

A HUGE part of that "ecosystem" is third party developer created apps and content that Apple relies on to sell it's devices and "other" services.
It's a mutually beneficial relationship, but not one that will last forever if Apple keeps making more demands for revenue share of things they have no hand in creating.
Without these third party Devs, iOS devices would be akin to a feature phone.

Apple knows they have the upper hand by artificially limiting where one can get apps for their devices.
There is no consumer choice within the iOS "ecosystem". It's Apple's way or the highway.
They need to be careful here. At some point they are going to make it untenable for any Dev to offer quality goods without sacrificing too much for the sake of Apple's bottom line. They will eventually pack up and head to another platform.

Click to expand...

When one buys an iPhone most understand that they use App Store only or they can jail break it.
If iOS & App Store is not to your liking Apple does not force you to buy iPhone or Apps from App Store. The highways are Android & buy Apps from Android Market Place, Windows & BB. The App Store is a great feature of the iPhone and I like the fact that I really don't worry about Apps that are tainted. That's because Apple screens Apps in an effort to keep my user experience great.
I have watched friends struggle with issues on the other OS's. Can't get updates due to so much fragmentation, so much different hardware and most have came to iPhone or some are ones switching back to iPhones. Granted I have a few friends who like Android better after switching from iPhones and swear by them.
The App Store is very appealing to a lot of iPhone users who want the ease of use and are not computer wise. The average iPhone owner I talk with loves the platform!
I would agree that Apple does have to keep an eye on how devs feel and always have an open mind to how money is dispersed.
But business is business and the App Store has every right to collect a percentage of business done from App Store.

Sorry if I went of topic a little, my mind is all over the place this morning......