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Old Sep 10, 2012, 11:44 AM   #626
milo
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Thanks for the details.

Agreed, not having SBEX available isn't really an excuse when they're not using Westmere EX now.
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 10:21 AM   #627
RBR2
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Regardless of Intel CPUs, what would it really changed to at least update the GPU. A AMD 5770... in 2012. Sad.

Apple doesn't need to wait for Intel necessarily to update the Mac Pro, there's more to it than just a CPU.
Precisely.

For example, Apple completely skipped eSATA and USB 3 is still a question mark in Apple's architecture. Graphics development, and choices, has been a sore point for a long time.

PCIe based SSDs are the current standard of high performance computing. When combined with adequate RAM, delays due to "disk outs" can be substantially reduced. (Rotating HDDs are still OK for mass storage in many applications, though a RAID array improves that performance.)

I would rather Apple expend more effort on product development and less on dog and pony shows to introduce those products, products which need a new designer who focuses on functionality and utility rather than merely "looking good".

Apple should simply update products as newer components become available rather than waiting for major enclosure redesign.

Cheers
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 10:36 AM   #628
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Looks like USB3 comes to macs when intel provides a motherboard that includes it. Likely to come to MP (assuming it ever gets updated) just because intel will have done the work. Same probably goes for SATA III.

Totally agree about SSD although on a machine with SATA III (particularly with multiple discrete busses), PCI shouldn't be necessary for it.

In the case of MP it seems unlikely that enclosure is a factor, they just don't want to update the MP unless they can do it with literally zero work (current MP is basically the same mobo as the 2009 version). But at some point they're going to have to move to a new mother board or dump the product.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 01:50 PM   #629
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Looks like USB3 comes to macs when intel provides a motherboard that includes it. Likely to come to MP (assuming it ever gets updated) just because intel will have done the work. Same probably goes for SATA III.

Totally agree about SSD although on a machine with SATA III (particularly with multiple discrete busses), PCI shouldn't be necessary for it.

In the case of MP it seems unlikely that enclosure is a factor, they just don't want to update the MP unless they can do it with literally zero work (current MP is basically the same mobo as the 2009 version). But at some point they're going to have to move to a new mother board or dump the product.
For once, being late to the party may have avoided a problem. It now appears that USB 3 has a lot of problems, some of which may be inherent in the technology and that it could easily wind up as a footnote to the history of failed technologies.

By the time the new Mac Pro is announced, the second generation Thunderbolt should be available to be included. With a little luck the price premium for Thunderbolt will come down to make the performance increases even more appealing.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 04:25 PM   #630
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For once, being late to the party may have avoided a problem. It now appears that USB 3 has a lot of problems, some of which may be inherent in the technology and that it could easily wind up as a footnote to the history of failed technologies.
A "lot of problems"? Really?

It sounds like you're on a one-man mission to create usb3gate - when in fact looking at the web it looks like Apples have more problems than most due to poorly shielded ports.

I've been using USB 3.0 (and so has my group) for quite some time, and today was the first time that I've heard of this crisis that you're trying to promote.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 04:41 PM   #631
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A "lot of problems"? Really?

It sounds like you're on a one-man mission to create usb3gate - when in fact looking at the web it looks like Apples have more problems than most due to poorly shielded ports.

I've been using USB 3.0 (and so has my group) for quite some time, and today was the first time that I've heard of this crisis that you're trying to promote.
Keep reading. It is a lot more than just Apple products that are involved. There is even an Intel "White Paper" on the subject. I suggest reading it and then doing some web searching and I don't mean just reading the Apple suggestion not to put the offending devices next to the hinge or behind the screen of various laptops.

It spreads across the entire PC community. The USB 3 peripherals are generating the interference and it can affect most anything else that works on the 2.4 GHz/Wi-Fi band in addition to Bluetooth and who knows what else. The problem is only now coming to the forefront.

You are the one using the word "crisis". That is not the word I chose, but I won't argue the point, but it's a mess by whatever name you may choose to call it.

I will agree with one point you make. The overwhelming majority of people have not yet heard of the problem. If it doesn't affect you, consider yourself fortunate.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 04:43 PM   #632
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By the time the new Mac Pro is announced, the second generation Thunderbolt should be available to be included. With a little luck the price premium for Thunderbolt will come down to make the performance increases even more appealing.
I can't wait for Thunderbolt to kill the Universal Suck Bus. Just imagine how much smoother my mouse and keyboard will be when they've got unfettered access to full on PCI-E bandwidth over fiber optic cables.

Overkill? I think not. People who say otherwise are just living in the past. Apple is the future. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go and hook up a HEMI engine to a shopping cart so I can get my groceries faster.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 04:47 PM   #633
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I can't wait for Thunderbolt to kill the Universal Suck Bus. Just imagine how much smoother my mouse and keyboard will be when they've got unfettered access to full on PCI-E bandwidth over fiber optic cables.

Overkill? I think not. People who say otherwise are just living in the past. Apple is the future. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go and hook up a HEMI engine to a shopping cart so I can get my groceries faster.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 05:43 PM   #634
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For once, being late to the party may have avoided a problem. It now appears that USB 3 has a lot of problems, some of which may be inherent in the technology and that it could easily wind up as a footnote to the history of failed technologies.

By the time the new Mac Pro is announced, the second generation Thunderbolt should be available to be included. With a little luck the price premium for Thunderbolt will come down to make the performance increases even more appealing.
I doubt USB 3 is going to fail, and even if it did, that doesn't necessarily mean that Thunderbolt will succeed. The price premium hasn't gone down a penny for the buyers despite being on the market for 20+ months.

Given the reach of USB 3 use is easily 10x to 100x that of Thunderbolt, for all we know, Thunderbolt might also be hiding some issues.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 06:21 PM   #635
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I doubt USB 3 is going to fail, and even if it did, that doesn't necessarily mean that Thunderbolt will succeed. The price premium hasn't gone down a penny for the buyers despite being on the market for 20+ months.

Given the reach of USB 3 use is easily 10x to 100x that of Thunderbolt, for all we know, Thunderbolt might also be hiding some issues.
Intel itself is not positionning USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt as competing interconnects. Anyone doing so is ignoring the realities behind each, their benefits and flaws.
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