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Old Jun 16, 2013, 01:35 PM   #51
quagmire
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Originally Posted by lostngone View Post
Again...

The U.S. Government is going to send small arms to Syrian terrorists. Those same weapons would be illegal for U.S. Citizens to own.

If the U.S. Government can trust terrorists with these weapons and not its own citizens something is wrong.
You can't get those weapons NOW. It's illegal to own an automatic weapon after 1986 I believe was the year. And to get automatics made before 1986, you have to go through a year plus worth of background checks, spend at least $10k, etc.
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Old Jun 16, 2013, 01:45 PM   #52
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Our own Government officials are telling law abiding citizens they can not be trusted with firearms,
Even if they did say that (no proof that they have) they might not be wrong:

Since 1968, More Americans have died from civilian gunfire than in all the wars in U.S. History.

Now, to be fair, this does include suicides and accidental deaths as well as homicides. Still, this begs the question: how many is too many? When do we as a country say ENOUGH!
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Old Jun 16, 2013, 03:21 PM   #53
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When do we as a country say ENOUGH!
NEVER! As long as 2a is in place We will keep our right to keep and bear arms.
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Old Jun 16, 2013, 03:50 PM   #54
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I certainly don't trust most Americans with guns. There should be a very strict test to prove that you know:

A. How to actually shoot a gun accurately
B. How to safely store a gun
C. Recognize a situation where a gun should actually be used in self defense
D. You're not a freaking criminal or insane person

A gun is an object that you point at someone, pull a trigger, and BAM that person's ****ing life is over. Why the hell is that not regulated. Every week there is a new story of a kid finding a gun lying around and accidentally murdering someone with it. Why do we tolerate this?

If you are a responsible person who actually cares about self-defense, you should be able to own a gun. But how many people just buy a gun and think they are all of a sudden Jack Bauer? Idiots shouldn't own guns. That's all I'm saying.
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Old Jun 16, 2013, 04:07 PM   #55
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NEVER! As long as 2a is in place We will keep our right to keep and bear arms.
Is the 2nd Amendment worth more than innocent people's lives? How many parents are going to have to bury their children before we at least EXAMINE "our right to keep and bear arms"?
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Old Jun 16, 2013, 04:26 PM   #56
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Is the 2nd Amendment worth more than innocent people's lives? How many parents are going to have to bury their children before we at least EXAMINE "our right to keep and bear arms"?
I'm just curious as to what the gun nuts would say if the 2nd ammendment was repealed. They certainly won't give up their guns. So what would the excuse be? And why is the 2nd ammendment so wonderful that people claim to buy guns just because they allowed to. Why do you have huns? Cause the 2nd ammendment gives me that right. Period. Oh. Ok. So you just stand on the street corner and talk about your political views just cause you're allowed to. Must exercise all our rights!!!
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Old Jun 16, 2013, 04:27 PM   #57
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Is the 2nd Amendment worth more than innocent people's lives? How many parents are going to have to bury their children before we at least EXAMINE "our right to keep and bear arms"?
We are all in trouble when the government get to choose which portions of the constitution it will enforce.
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Old Jun 16, 2013, 04:28 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by CaptMurdock View Post
Is the 2nd Amendment worth more than innocent people's lives? How many parents are going to have to bury their children before we at least EXAMINE "our right to keep and bear arms"?
Don't assume I'm staking a claim in yet another gun debate by saying this, cuz God knows I'm about sick of them by now, but this is probably the least effect way to argue against what is ultimately an assured constitutional right.

It's like saying "is the right to say what you want to say against your government worth the life of thousands of innocents". Most anyone opposing your viewpoint will say yes, that we should live and die protecting our guaranteed rights, because without them, we're at the mercy of our governments.

The best way to approach the argument would be your second statement, to question the need for such a right in the first place.
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Old Jun 16, 2013, 04:30 PM   #59
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We are all in trouble when the government get to choose which portions of the constitution it will enforce.
More than likely it would just change the constitution - which the government is allowed to do and has done, not just ignore it..
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Old Jun 16, 2013, 04:32 PM   #60
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More than likely it would just change the constitution - which the government is allowed to do and has done, not just ignore it..
I agree.
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Old Jun 16, 2013, 04:43 PM   #61
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More than likely it would just change the constitution - which the government is allowed to do and has done, not just ignore it..
It's been a long time since I've studied US history, but has the government ever made a change to the constitution to nullify something stated within it? Off the top of my head, most, if not all, of the amendments have been added to either expand rights to certain groups and individuals, or to add more guarantees.
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Old Jun 16, 2013, 04:48 PM   #62
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It's been a long time since I've studied US history, but has the government ever made a change to the constitution to nullify something stated within it? Off the top of my head, most, if not all, of the amendments have been added to either expand rights to certain groups and individuals, or to add more guarantees.
It's more likely that the Government simply ignores the Constitution. that's what it's doing right now.

No need to get 2/3 of the states to ratify some pesky new amendment .
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Old Jun 16, 2013, 04:53 PM   #63
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It's been a long time since I've studied US history, but has the government ever made a change to the constitution to nullify something stated within it? Off the top of my head, most, if not all, of the amendments have been added to either expand rights to certain groups and individuals, or to add more guarantees.
Well prohibition banned booze but that wasn't a guaranteed right in the first place and didn't last long. Here's a list of more but they really are a stretch.

"11th - more of a clarification of Article II than really taking away a right. It prevents citizens of one state or foreign country from suing another state in federal court.

16th - Exempts "income taxes" from the General Welfare Clause's requirement of equal apportionment among the states. It's a major stretch to call this one taking away the rights of the people. It more took away the rights of the states for equal apportionment.

18th - Prohibition. This one is cut and dry (no pun intended). It took away the right of people to drink alcohol. The only problem was that it was repealed by the 21st and is no longer in effect.

22nd - Removes the right of a person to run for a third term as President. While this technically does remove a right, it currently only applies to George W. Bush and Bill Clinton.

There's one more you could add to the list, if you like:

13th - Removes the right to own slaves. I don't think anyone is against that right being taken away.
"






http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...5115702AAP90NF
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Old Jun 16, 2013, 05:26 PM   #64
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We need to expand the 22nd to Congress.....
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Old Jun 16, 2013, 05:40 PM   #65
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When I start accepting the deranged ravings of a madman as evidence, I'll accept these videos as evidence.

You and I are sane enough not to accept videos of deranged individuals ranting willy nilly as evidence but many people do, hence this entire thread.....
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Old Jun 16, 2013, 06:51 PM   #66
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It's more likely that the Government simply ignores the Constitution. that's what it's doing right now.

No need to get 2/3 of the states to ratify some pesky new amendment .
Other than individuals stating their opinions on the matter, has any court actually made any legal declarations that the constitution has been violated?
(I am referring to the stuff the NSA has been accused of doing)
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Old Jun 16, 2013, 07:00 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Zerilos View Post
We are all in trouble when the government get to choose which portions of the constitution it will enforce.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
Don't assume I'm staking a claim in yet another gun debate by saying this, cuz God knows I'm about sick of them by now, but this is probably the least effect way to argue against what is ultimately an assured constitutional right.

It's like saying "is the right to say what you want to say against your government worth the life of thousands of innocents". Most anyone opposing your viewpoint will say yes, that we should live and die protecting our guaranteed rights, because without them, we're at the mercy of our governments.

The best way to approach the argument would be your second statement, to question the need for such a right in the first place.
While I don't necessarily disagree with the points made here, I do have interject one thought:

The Constitution was meant to serve the country...not the other way around.
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Old Jun 16, 2013, 10:27 PM   #68
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While I don't necessarily disagree with the points made here, I do have interject one thought:

The Constitution was meant to serve the country...not the other way around.
Your point is completely irrelevant to the comments you are responding to.
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Old Jun 17, 2013, 12:22 AM   #69
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The Constitution was meant to serve the country...not the other way around.
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Your point is completely irrelevant to the comments you are responding to.
Not really. I agree with the captain.

Well said, sir.

<salutes>
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Old Jun 17, 2013, 01:37 AM   #70
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You guys do realize the majority of the "government" is just normal people like you and me? Government workers aren't the boogie man.
Yes we are and we're here to take your gunz
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Old Jun 17, 2013, 03:36 PM   #71
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Not really. I agree with the captain.

Well said, sir.

<salutes>
My point was that the government cannot just choose to start ignoring parts of the constitution, and if it could the the document is useless. Many would argue (not me) that the constitution is serving the people by allowing largely unfettered access to firearms. His point advance the debate not one iota.
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Old Jun 17, 2013, 10:51 PM   #72
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My point was that the government cannot just choose to start ignoring parts of the constitution, and if it could the the document is useless. Many would argue (not me) that the constitution is serving the people by allowing largely unfettered access to firearms. His point advance the debate not one iota.
My point being is that the government and the Constitution both are meant to serve the country. If some part of the Constitution no longer serves the best long-term interests of the country, shouldn't there be a discussion about how to amend the situation? The Constitution was not writ in stone tablets by the Finger of God and carried down Mount Sinai by Charlton Heston. It was written by men -- certainly well-educated men of their time, but men without knowledge of OUR time -- and written in a way that enabled the changing of the document to fit the future needs of the country.
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