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Old May 15, 2013, 03:13 PM   #151
Ice Dragon
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Originally Posted by gregorsamsa View Post
You're correct, it is. Though Broadwell has the same micro-architecture as Haswell, it should still offer a significant step up. Ditto with Sandy Bridge & its superior successor, Ivy Bridge, which also have a common micro-architecture.

I omitted mentioning it only from the perspective that if I pass on Haswell as not being a worthwhile enough upgrade for me, then I'd probably wait for the far more powerful Skylake chipset, though Broadwell will come before that. Apologies for any confusion.

It also suits my preferred timeline of basically buying a new Mac after every 3-4 years.
Makes sense. Because I have a the 2011 i5 base model mini, I figure two years is appropriate for upgrading to a 2013 i7 quad-core.

If I had say the ultimate iMac, then yes 3-4 years would be more appropriate.
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Old May 15, 2013, 06:01 PM   #152
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Makes sense. Because I have a the 2011 i5 base model mini, I figure two years is appropriate for upgrading to a 2013 i7 quad-core.

If I had say the ultimate iMac, then yes 3-4 years would be more appropriate.
I agree. FWIW, I'd also have gone for a quicker Mac upgrade cycle at one time, ie. prior to getting a gaming PC. But after the higher-end Mini lost its discrete graphics in 2012 to be replaced by the integrated HD 4000, I decided enough was enough. No regrets since.

Unfortunately, a Mac Pro was overkill for my needs, as well as too pricey. I won't say too much about the iMac other than I used to own one, but couldn't stand the reflective screen. It also died within 3 years. I'll never buy another AIO from any company ever again, such is the strength of my feeling.
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Old May 21, 2013, 08:17 AM   #153
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Well would they gimp the mini's? Seriously. People looking for a imac are not going to cross shop a Mini. One is a all in one and one is a stand alone desktop.

The Mini will likely be produced in the USA this year. The form factor will not change most likely. What is there to change exactly? How did they gimp the Mini's this year? The non-base Mini CPU's are faster than the imacs. They got rid of the discrete GPU because of thermal constraints, and put that into the processor.

This year the Mini will look the same while getting haswell. Most likely a i7 again. They will not down grade the processor. No need for a discrete GPU with Haswell.

The Mid range Mini non-bto out performs the high end imac non-bto. The high end mini is Apple's second most powerfull desktop regardless of price cpu wise. The Mini can fit 16gb of ram, same as the 21.5 inch imac which is not user upgradeable.

The current gen mini has the raw cpu performance of a Retina MacBook pro at half the price. The best bang for your buck in Apple's current lineup, regardless of desktop or laptop. Be happy they are giving us what they are, a great machine at a great price. I prefer the Mini over the imac regardless of price because I can use what display I want, and upgrade the display and computer when I want.

With haswell, it will get even better.

Move along nothing to see here.

Last edited by iamthedudeman; May 21, 2013 at 08:39 AM.
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Old May 21, 2013, 08:36 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by iamthedudeman View Post
Well would they gimp the mini's? Seriously.
Because they have done so in the past, I feel they will.

I predict haswell & HD4600, while the others get Iris HD5XXX.
Maybe the top model will have options to make it beefier, but it'll be pricy enough to not cut into other segments.
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Old May 21, 2013, 08:53 AM   #155
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Because they have done so in the past, I feel they will.

I predict haswell & HD4600, while the others get Iris HD5XXX.
Maybe the top model will have options to make it beefier, but it'll be pricy enough to not cut into other segments.
No they have not, not on purpose to 'gimp' them for no other reason than to cut into sales of the imac. They are not going to down grade the processor. Trust me on that. Did they this year, no they did not. What others are you talking about?

Where are people getting this from? certainly not this year. It is suicide to down grade specs for no good reason for a product. Trust me. Will not happen. Apple did this before because they went for a better GPU and not CPU. This year they went for a better CPU and not GPU. Because of thermal constraints and price, nothing more.


No conspiracy theory here.

The mobile i7 haswell processors only have iris GT3. The 4600 is only for the low end desktop and low end mobile processor, so that is not going to happen. It's labeled HD graphics not 'iris'.

I have more than a good idea on what they will do, not a prediction. They will still use a i5 in the base model and a i7 in the mid range. Same as this year. It will have iris 5100 at a 28W thermal envelope.

The next mac mini upgrade will be a something to look forward too. CPU and finally a good GPU.

Last edited by iamthedudeman; May 21, 2013 at 09:02 AM.
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Old May 21, 2013, 09:28 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by iamthedudeman View Post
No they have not, not on purpose to 'gimp' them for no other reason than to cut into sales of the imac.
You make some good points, but regarding the gimping: didn't the Mac Mini once offer a dedicated graphics card? That's no longer there. I can't see this as a decision based solely on thermal constraints and price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthedudeman View Post
The mobile i7 haswell processors only have iris GT3. The 4600 is only for the low end desktop and low end mobile processor
The HD4600 is also used in the desktop haswell processors but yeah of course the mac mini will use a mobile chip,
my bad.

Last edited by Verix; May 21, 2013 at 09:37 AM.
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Old May 21, 2013, 02:33 PM   #157
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So how many here are upgrading from last years model to this years haswell ?
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Old May 21, 2013, 04:55 PM   #158
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So how many here are upgrading from last years model to this years haswell ?
I am upgrading from a 2011 version.
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Old May 21, 2013, 08:50 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by iamthedudeman View Post
People looking for a imac are not going to cross shop a Mini. One is a all in one and one is a stand alone desktop.
I'm probably an exception, but I certainly plan to buy a mini after seeing the recently redesigned iMac. In fact, I waited, like many, for the 2012 iMac to be released all last year. When it finally was, I was not impressed with the lack of accessibility, no OD, no user-upgradeable RAM on the 21.5", dumb SD slot location, etc. So I bought a used 2010 model instead, which I modded myself, and am quite content for now.

I expect to use this machine for another 2 years at least; it's still quite zippy with an SSD installed. But at some point I won't be able to run the most recent OS X version (as happened to the computer I replaced: an early 2006 MBP 17" that could only run 10.6.8), and I expect that over time this machine will generally slow down as software grows more complex.

However (and getting to my point), I doubt I'll be buying another iMac. While I like the simplicity of an AIO, I most certainly do not like Apple's design direction of less user accessibility. I like to be able to mod my machines, mainly to get a little extra life out of them (got an extra 2 years out of that old MBP because of an SSD and RAM upgrade).

Therefore, the Mini is suddenly a solid candidate for purchase. Assuming, of course, that Apple continues to maintain the ability to take it apart easily like it has until now. My needs are probably pretty typical for most consumers: lots of web surfing, music storage and playback (I get movies from Netflix through an Apple TV, so I don't have any stored in memory), and personal documents like financial records. I don't need a Mac Pro for that, and in a couple years, a Mini with Intel's latest integrated graphics will work just fine. Heck, the current Mini is plenty capable for my needs (I went with an iMac because I wanted an OD and didn't want to have to purchase a new monitor). My hope is that in 2 years or so, 4K monitors will be the norm, or at least in the process of taking over the market. Fortunately, we're seeing large screen 4K TV offerings pop up as well as yesterday's announcement of Samsung's new QHD laptop. Sharp is getting in the game too. But until 4K screens become the norm, there's nothing for me to get too excited about in computerdom.
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Old May 22, 2013, 08:26 AM   #160
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I'm probably an exception, but I certainly plan to buy a mini after seeing the recently redesigned iMac. In fact, I waited, like many, for the 2012 iMac to be released all last year. When it finally was, I was not impressed with the lack of accessibility, no OD, no user-upgradeable RAM on the 21.5", dumb SD slot location, etc.
And 512 MB of video memory on all cards but the one in the top level model.
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Old May 22, 2013, 10:50 AM   #161
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And 512 MB of video memory on all cards but the one in the top level model.
This has always been true in the iMac line over the past several years and revisions.
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Old May 22, 2013, 12:56 PM   #162
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Do you people think that is possible to see a refresh of mac mini at WWDC in June or not untill fall ?
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Old May 22, 2013, 01:13 PM   #163
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This has always been true in the iMac line over the past several years and revisions.
True although it is time to up the ante. At least to 1 GB or more on the base 27" if not 1 GB standard on all models.

Quote:
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Do you people think that is possible to see a refresh of mac mini at WWDC in June or not untill fall ?
I say the fall since that is when the dual-core Haswell processors are due out. It would be nice to have quad-core minis across the board though doubtable.

I hope it is planned for the fall and not early 2014 as some people have said. The hell with that.
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Old May 22, 2013, 03:05 PM   #164
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Do you people think that is possible to see a refresh of mac mini at WWDC in June or not untill fall ?
Anything is possible, and I'd say it technically could happen. The Mac Mini's refresh-times are all OVER the place. 200-something days one revision, 400-something days another. We're in the 200-range so it's not unthinkable.

Personally I'd only give it like a 20% chance of happening... but that's just pulled out of thin air. The big thing here might be a better integrated GPU that Haswell promises since that's the mini's biggest weakness.


They tend to try the new stuff on their laptops first. So perhaps one of the non-Retina laptops might get a revision since it's been a while (assuming they don't EOL non-Retina laptops).

Mac Mini's would probably come later.


BUT... like I said... anything is possible. I just don't see it very likely.
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Old May 22, 2013, 11:49 PM   #165
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The mobile i7 haswell processors only have iris GT3. The 4600 is only for the low end desktop and low end mobile processor, so that is not going to happen.
That is wrong. The high end Haswell mobile processors are getting the HD4600.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-C...r.86104.0.html

Even the top of the range Extreme gets the HD4600.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-C...r.86103.0.html

I think Intel's reasoning is for people buying high end processors, they are likely to buy a system with discrete GPU anyway which is still much better than Iris or Iris Pro in GPu performance. And having only HD4600 onboard would allow more thermal headroom to clock the CPU higher.

ie. the top Iris Pro equipped i7-4950HQ has base frequency of 2.4Ghz, while the i7-4900MX is 2.8Ghz. Top turbo speeds are closer though 3.8Ghz vs 3.6Ghz.
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Old May 23, 2013, 12:54 AM   #166
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Haswell needs a redesigned power supply in order to be able to go into its lowest powerstate. Otherwise it will be not much different from the present generation. (lower powerstate at idle will help with the temperatures).
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Old May 24, 2013, 03:13 AM   #167
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I know countries have different use of word but isn't it meant to be 'pimp' not 'gimp'?

A gimp is a physically handicapped or lame person. Or otherwise known as the imprisoned man dressed completely in black leather in Pulp Fiction.

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Old May 24, 2013, 07:37 AM   #168
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That`s the ideea, Mac Mini could be better but Apple will always handicap it in a way or other.
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Old May 28, 2013, 04:04 PM   #169
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yeah, what robE89 said.

What will Apple give/take away from the mini, such that the iMac, MBP, AIR, etc... look like better alternatives?
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Old May 29, 2013, 06:06 AM   #170
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I'm afraid that there's a good chance that they'll drop the Mini at all.
So, if you are correct this rumor is just a rumor.
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