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Old Dec 13, 2012, 06:21 AM   #51
clark85
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Originally Posted by skaertus View Post
The fact is: as much as Apple claims to have a unique environment with OS X, it has competitors in the real world and it will dance to the music.

Just a few days after the release of the 13" rMBP with a 2560x1600 resolution and costing an outrageous US$ 1,699, Google released a US$ 399 tablet with the very same resolution. I wonder whether Apple rushed to release the 13" rMBP before the rumored Google Nexus 10 came to light.

Next year, expect other manufacturers to release their "retina" laptops. Samsung will probably do that, as it has already showcased a Series 9 ultrabook with a 2560x1440 resolution; and it has the technology for mass producing these devices, as it does for Apple.

How long can Apple stick with the 1440x900 MBA when other vendores are offering "retina" like resolutions for similar prices? As much as Apple does not want to cannibalize sales of the rMBP, it is not alone in the market and will have to make a move if other vendors threaten to supersede it.
i totally agree with you. apple needs to come up with something new and super cool. software and spec wise is the competition catching up fast
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 11:10 AM   #52
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That is like saying the 2011 already had a fast SSD so why do you need a faster SSD? Technology. It advances and improves. That is why.
no mate thats a totally wrong way of comparing SSD is quite easy to
upgrade but to have a upgrade in a screen resolution is much harder this is not my words but if you look at the rMBP promo video this is what they say about the reengineering of the screen.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 11:22 AM   #53
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no mate thats a totally wrong way of comparing SSD is quite easy to
upgrade but to have a upgrade in a screen resolution is much harder this is not my words but if you look at the rMBP promo video this is what they say about the reengineering of the screen.
Yes man. Samsung has done it with their series 9 ultrabook. Google did it with the Nexus 10. It just takes time, energy, forethought...etc. for the technology envelope to be pushed. For too long laptop screen resolution has been ignored. No reason for that.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 11:27 AM   #54
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I agree. I have a rMBP (out of need - I'm an iOS developer) and the fancy screen makes absolutely no difference to me. Most of the time it's hooked up to my old Cinema display.

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That's speed-talk. I'm just trying to say that people are having expectations that are way to high. I'm loving the display on my air, very low glare and high-res. For my usage I don't need a "retina".

If you don't want to see pixels, get your eyes off the screen and sit back 30cm.

And for those that REALY need the extremely high resolution, ok, you deserve a "retina" display. But that's maybe 3-5% of all the users?
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 02:42 PM   #55
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I am willing to bet my next paycheck that the 2013 macbook air will NOT have a retina display. The retina display Mbps are an experiment. Both to optimize technically how to implement the tech and also to see how much consumers value retina in a laptop. You can tell because apple kept the cMbps around.

If you want retina in a small form factor you should really check out the 13inch retina in person. It is a really nice form factor. But for many people retina is not necessary or even desirable. I think apple will be better served by making the mba the best ultra portable via continued improvements in weight and battery life while maintaining a good enough computing experience for the average consumer. If the want to eventually drop the old MBPs they probably also need to provide a low cost option that can work as a main machine. I don't think retina is compatible with this for now.

I do think there is a good chance we'll see a modest redesign next year since the haswell changes for ultra low voltage are pretty big.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 11:06 PM   #56
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Damn :] Can't wait for them to announce the specs of it.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 06:41 PM   #57
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I am willing to bet my next paycheck that the 2013 macbook air will NOT have a retina display. The retina display Mbps are an experiment. Both to optimize technically how to implement the tech and also to see how much consumers value retina in a laptop. You can tell because apple kept the cMbps around.
It is certainly not a technical experiment. It has probably been tested a thousand times before it was released for consumption.

As for the pricing, Apple is certainly charging a premium for it. But Apple has no monopoly over high-resolution displays, and Windows laptops with such displays will begin to appear next year. And they certainly represent competition for Apple. As much as Apple doesn't like the idea to release a lower priced retina Mac, it may eventually have to, as it has no control over the market.

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If you want retina in a small form factor you should really check out the 13inch retina in person. It is a really nice form factor. But for many people retina is not necessary or even desirable. I think apple will be better served by making the mba the best ultra portable via continued improvements in weight and battery life while maintaining a good enough computing experience for the average consumer. If the want to eventually drop the old MBPs they probably also need to provide a low cost option that can work as a main machine. I don't think retina is compatible with this for now.
The retina display is compatible with low prices. In May, more than six months ago, a 15" 2880x1800 retina display reportedly costed a US$ 92 premium over the non-retina model, and the 13" 2560x1600, a US$ 65 premium. See here: http://www.macrumors.com/2012/05/16/...ook-pro-costs/

SSDs add a lot of cost, but retina displays are not as expensive as people may think. And prices will, of course, come down over time. Google has released a US$ 399 tablet with a 2560x1600 display, and that means that these high-resolution displays can't be so expensive. Apple will not make the MBA faster

Apple will of course release MBAs with retina displays, and they will come at a lower price than the rMBP.

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I do think there is a good chance we'll see a modest redesign next year since the haswell changes for ultra low voltage are pretty big.
Perhaps in the end of the year, after Haswell is released, MBAs will get a redesign and a retina display will come too.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 07:01 PM   #58
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Perhaps in the end of the year, after Haswell is released, MBAs will get a redesign and a retina display will come too.
So in your opinion, there would be a mid 2013 and a late 2013 models for MBA? respectively for the haswell and the haswell-retina mbas?
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 08:19 PM   #59
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It is, and i bet they would steppen the power from macbook pro retina so that they can differentiate the difference between rMBA and rMBP when it comes out.
I dont think Apple can sufficiently give a Macbook Air a retina display just yet. The current 13 rMBP suffers from lag, and a very steep price, for internals very similar to a current Air. I can see Apple making the Pro's more powerful next year, but they will leave the Macbook Air's as the affordable, consumer model. I expect a big battery jump for the next Airs, however
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 08:36 PM   #60
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It is a curious question you ask about a retina 13" Air. It seems the screen might be too power hungry for the Air form factor and too big and yet I get the feeling that Apple eventually wants retina on everything so ... who knows? It's a good question though, makes me wonder.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 08:42 PM   #61
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Perhaps in the end of the year, after Haswell is released, MBAs will get a redesign and a retina display will come too.
I think the retina display will come to the Airs in 2014. Apple really wants the Air to be its consumer laptop. If somebody wants a retina display Macbook, the 13 rMBP will be the answer for 2012 and 2013.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 09:35 PM   #62
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I think the retina display will come to the Airs in 2014. Apple really wants the Air to be its consumer laptop. If somebody wants a retina display Macbook, the 13 rMBP will be the answer for 2012 and 2013.
I see your point. It may not make a lot of sense from what seems to be Apple's current strategy of segmenting products in the market.

But, again, Apple may want it, but this will depend on what the competitors will do as well. There are already lots of ultrabooks/convertibles which are available or to be released soon, featuring a 1920x1080 resolution IPS display (Asus Zenbook Prime, Acer Aspire S7, Dell XPS 12, Microsoft Surface Pro, Asus Taichi, Acer Iconia W700, Samsung SmartPC Pro, etc.). Apple's MacBook Air is behind all of them in terms of screen quality and resolution.

Next year, after Haswell comes up with its power-saving abilities and a much better integrated video card, manufacturers will release ultrabooks with 2560x1440 resolutions. Samsung has a Series 9 prototype which was shown in August 2012; it is unlikely that this particular ultrabook will not see the light of day within one year from now.

Then, you have Apple's MacBook Air. Apple is proudly announcing the retina MacBook Pros as the highest-resolution laptops in the world. The retina iPhone and iPad were also widely announced as top devices with killer screens, before anybody else could deliver that. It would be weird for Apple to have a low-resolution ultrabook when everybody else is quickly moving towards the high-end resolutions, especially after announcing itself as the company that makes the products with the highest quality screens on the market.

A retina display is not incompatible with a consumer laptop. On the contrary. It attracts consumers, maybe even more than professionals. The iPhone and the iPad are both consumer devices, and both feature gorgeous IPS retina displays. I don't see why Apple couldn't put them on the MacBook Air.

Pricing, you may say. There would be no reason for Apple to sell the retina MacBook Pro for a premium if the MacBook Air had a retina display. But that's not true. The MacBook Pro has a faster processor, and is heavier than the MacBook Air (and a redesigned MacBook Air would be even lighter). Plus, with the Haswell processor, battery life of the MacBook Pro could be boosted.

Again, this is just a guess. Apple may leave the retina MacBook Airs for 2014, and my guess is no better than yours. But it seems like all elements for a MacBook Air will be already available in 2013 (Haswell and IGZO displays), so there would be no reason for Apple to delay it, especially when there is the risk of competitors releasing similar products.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 10:46 PM   #63
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I see your point. It may not make a lot of sense from what seems to be Apple's current strategy of segmenting products in the market.

But, again, Apple may want it, but this will depend on what the competitors will do as well. There are already lots of ultrabooks/convertibles which are available or to be released soon, featuring a 1920x1080 resolution IPS display (Asus Zenbook Prime, Acer Aspire S7, Dell XPS 12, Microsoft Surface Pro, Asus Taichi, Acer Iconia W700, Samsung SmartPC Pro, etc.). Apple's MacBook Air is behind all of them in terms of screen quality and resolution.

Next year, after Haswell comes up with its power-saving abilities and a much better integrated video card, manufacturers will release ultrabooks with 2560x1440 resolutions. Samsung has a Series 9 prototype which was shown in August 2012; it is unlikely that this particular ultrabook will not see the light of day within one year from now.

Then, you have Apple's MacBook Air. Apple is proudly announcing the retina MacBook Pros as the highest-resolution laptops in the world. The retina iPhone and iPad were also widely announced as top devices with killer screens, before anybody else could deliver that. It would be weird for Apple to have a low-resolution ultrabook when everybody else is quickly moving towards the high-end resolutions, especially after announcing itself as the company that makes the products with the highest quality screens on the market.

A retina display is not incompatible with a consumer laptop. On the contrary. It attracts consumers, maybe even more than professionals. The iPhone and the iPad are both consumer devices, and both feature gorgeous IPS retina displays. I don't see why Apple couldn't put them on the MacBook Air.

Pricing, you may say. There would be no reason for Apple to sell the retina MacBook Pro for a premium if the MacBook Air had a retina display. But that's not true. The MacBook Pro has a faster processor, and is heavier than the MacBook Air (and a redesigned MacBook Air would be even lighter). Plus, with the Haswell processor, battery life of the MacBook Pro could be boosted.

Again, this is just a guess. Apple may leave the retina MacBook Airs for 2014, and my guess is no better than yours. But it seems like all elements for a MacBook Air will be already available in 2013 (Haswell and IGZO displays), so there would be no reason for Apple to delay it, especially when there is the risk of competitors releasing similar products.
Well said, I guess we will find out soon on what they would do.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 07:16 AM   #64
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Again, I think that the rMPB is already a thin option that is almost identical to a MBA inside. If they did a rMBA it would be the exact same thing as the rMBP in a slightly thinner body. The price would be the same or more and they would be almost the exact same product. My guess is that the MPB and the rMBP will gradually get thinner and eventually the whole line will be size wise much closer to the air at which point the air would exist as the entry line (as it is today) and the pro line would be the higher powered line with the HD displays. Apple has already dipped their toes in the water with removing optical drives. If the iMac is a success as a desktop with no drive then I think they will make the leap and remove them from the MBP line was well. At that point the whole line will be as thin as the rMBP and probably thinner in the next year or two. Apple wants the whole line to be as thin and light as possible. When that happens either the MBA will need to remain having lower cost hardware to keep the entry point or the two lines will merge similar to the Macbook in aluminum and MBP line was.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 11:43 AM   #65
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Not Gona Happen Soon

They're not looking to make their 13' Retina Pro irrelevant. If it happens, it'll be $1700+.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 04:48 PM   #66
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What I'm interested in is not having a higher resolution - at all - but rather having more screen real estate.
With the rmbp's (as far as I know) you have the option of either going with ultra crispy regular size (where each pixel is quadrupled) or ultra small content on the screen (with quadrupled screen real estate).

I'm interested in neither because as far as I'm concerned the mba already has a plenty crisp screen (I'm not interested in using more of my rare graphics performance for improving this marginally).
While quadrupling the real estate would make everything so small as to making it hard to read (and I wouldn't want to use my already limited graphics performance on that either - I'd consider it a downgrade).

What I would be interested in is a larger screen - that could be the best thing ever - the bezel for our 13" screen is huge - if we could gain an inch or two of screen there that would be freaking epic but even if that wasn't possible just increasing the resolution to like 1600 x 900 preferably or perhaps even 1920 x 1080 would be great - because we would get a crispier display but also more screen real estate.

It shouldn't be either crispier display or more real estate and it should not come at such a high performance cost - but give us a smaller increase in BOTH at the same time - which would actually come at a much lower performance cost - as far as I know anyway.

Edit:
It shouldn't be:
sharpness (improved marginally) x real estate (unchanged) x content size (unchanged) x graphics cost (worsened severely)
or
sharpness (improved marginally) x real estate (improved greatly) x content size (worsened severely) x graphics cost (worsened severely)
but
sharpness (improved or unchanged) x real estate (improved reasonably) x content size (decreased responsibly) x graphics cost (worsened slightly)

Last edited by PraisiX-windows; Dec 15, 2012 at 06:36 PM. Reason: Unaccurate phrasing
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 07:34 PM   #67
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Woot! http://www.macrumors.com/2012/12/28/...-in-june-2013/
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 08:03 PM   #68
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I rather see a spec bump and a price drop for the MBA unless Apple makes the Retina versions affordable.

Want a MBA...but I'm not going to be same ridiculous amount of money for just the Retina display.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 08:14 PM   #69
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I rather see a spec bump and a price drop for the MBA unless Apple makes the Retina versions affordable.

Want a MBA...but I'm not going to be same ridiculous amount of money for just the Retina display.
I think the price would be the same, since there are ultrabooks with higher resolution than MBA which costs lesser. And like before when iPad refreshed to retina, the price didn't change. So I'm thinking that they wouldn't change the price. Plus the SSD prices are already getting cheaper so it might help them to lessen the cost in making the retina MBA overall.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 09:06 PM   #70
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They're not looking to make their 13' Retina Pro irrelevant. If it happens, it'll be $1700+.
The 13" retina MacBook Pro will not become irrelevant if the MacBook Air is released with a retina display as well. They're two different products.

Apple managed to sell a thicker 13" MacBook Pro, with a 1280x800 resolution and with a HD instead of SSD, for nearly the same price of the 13" MacBook Air, which came with a 1440x900 resolution and the wonders of SSD, besides being thinner. And, despite all the advantages of the MacBook Air, the 13" MacBook Pro was still the best-seller.

The retina MacBook Pro has a better processor than the MacBook Air. That, alone, will guarantee that it doesn't become irrelevant even if the MacBook Air is released with a retina display.

And remember that ultrabooks are getting increasingly better. In 2013, some of them will probably be released with a retina-like display. If Apple doesn't upgrade the MacBook Air accordingly, it is the MacBook Air, and not the Pro, that will become irrelevant.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 10:07 AM   #71
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The 13" retina MacBook Pro will not become irrelevant if the MacBook Air is released with a retina display as well. They're two different products.

Apple managed to sell a thicker 13" MacBook Pro, with a 1280x800 resolution and with a HD instead of SSD, for nearly the same price of the 13" MacBook Air, which came with a 1440x900 resolution and the wonders of SSD, besides being thinner. And, despite all the advantages of the MacBook Air, the 13" MacBook Pro was still the best-seller.

The retina MacBook Pro has a better processor than the MacBook Air. That, alone, will guarantee that it doesn't become irrelevant even if the MacBook Air is released with a retina display.

And remember that ultrabooks are getting increasingly better. In 2013, some of them will probably be released with a retina-like display. If Apple doesn't upgrade the MacBook Air accordingly, it is the MacBook Air, and not the Pro, that will become irrelevant.
At the 13" level there is a lot of overlap between the rMBP and MBA. I had a 2012 Core i7 MBA that I recently replaced with a Core i5 rMBP (it was lost and I decided to step up with the insurance proceeds). Performance-wise they are very similar. The IPS display on the rMBP blows away the Air, though. It is possible that a future Air will have a higher resolution display, but still use a slightly inferior technology to keep the cost down (or at least justify the price differential to the marketplace).

Since its introduction the Air has shifted in Apple's hierarchy. It started out as a niche product/executive toy (certainly the late 2008 SSD model I bought for $2400 qualified). Starting in late 2010 it became more midstream, and has been positioned as Apple's entry level notebook ever since. Therefore, it doesn't necessarily need to come with all the bells and whistles standard. Even if Asus, Samsung, HP and others come out with fancier ultrabooks, Apple doesn't necessarily need to respond in kind. They have already downplayed the idea of touch screens. I won't say they will never have one, but I don't see one in 2013 or even 2014. Windows 8 hasn't exactly set the world on fire, and Apple has deliberately taken a go-slow approach. As for higher resolutions, I think the main stumbling block is power management. As the iPad shows, powering a Retina Display requires a larger battery. The iPad Mini (sans Retina Display) supposedly sold like hotcakes over the holiday while there were plenty of 4th-gen iPads in stores, so it seems resolution isn't yet at the top of everyone's minds.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:10 PM   #72
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At the 13" level there is a lot of overlap between the rMBP and MBA. I had a 2012 Core i7 MBA that I recently replaced with a Core i5 rMBP (it was lost and I decided to step up with the insurance proceeds). Performance-wise they are very similar. The IPS display on the rMBP blows away the Air, though. It is possible that a future Air will have a higher resolution display, but still use a slightly inferior technology to keep the cost down (or at least justify the price differential to the marketplace).
I just don't know. Apple may use a 16:9 screen format in MBAs, which is notably cheaper to make than the 16:10 screens found in the MBP. It may also choose to adopt the new 10W Intel processors to keep costs and power consumption low.

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Since its introduction the Air has shifted in Apple's hierarchy. It started out as a niche product/executive toy (certainly the late 2008 SSD model I bought for $2400 qualified). Starting in late 2010 it became more midstream, and has been positioned as Apple's entry level notebook ever since. Therefore, it doesn't necessarily need to come with all the bells and whistles standard. Even if Asus, Samsung, HP and others come out with fancier ultrabooks, Apple doesn't necessarily need to respond in kind. They have already downplayed the idea of touch screens. I won't say they will never have one, but I don't see one in 2013 or even 2014. Windows 8 hasn't exactly set the world on fire, and Apple has deliberately taken a go-slow approach. As for higher resolutions, I think the main stumbling block is power management. As the iPad shows, powering a Retina Display requires a larger battery. The iPad Mini (sans Retina Display) supposedly sold like hotcakes over the holiday while there were plenty of 4th-gen iPads in stores, so it seems resolution isn't yet at the top of everyone's minds.
Windows 8 is not selling well, but ultrabooks are slowly catching up in terms of sales. Apple will have to move sooner or later.

And screens are getting better and better. There are smartphones with 1920x1080 resolutions, much higher than the MBA. Screen technology is advancing in a very fast pace, and Sharp's IGZO displays are capable of high resolutions and very low power consumption. And they are ready for mass production. Everybody has one eye on it. If Apple doesn't use it, somebody will.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 02:08 PM   #73
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802.11ac Gigabit Wi-Fi will be nice to have in a '13 MBA Haswell refresh.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 01:06 AM   #74
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I believe that there should appear a retina display on the Macbook Air in 2013, because the resolution more likely that Apple can put 1600P is, and not 1440 as the samsung. And yet, whatever the marketing of other companies are better on a screen definition, Apple can use the argument that they have the best battery life in the market, if you place the IGZO Display and consumption reduction thanks to Haswell . Likewise it does not advance the smartphones have 1080p if the battery does not last long, and the difference in pixel does not compensate the loss of battery life.

There are rumors that Apple will release an iPad with a resolution better than the current one, which proves that an hour is not an advantage to invest in a macbook air with 1440p-1600P to compete, it is more practical to improve battery life and the next year launch a new, redesigned, the macbook air with a screen above the competition and with a quality never seen before, I dunno, 2000p-2400p, something that leaves close to 330 ppi, if that's not enough to dream.

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Old Jan 3, 2013, 06:34 AM   #75
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a french website expects the macbook air to be updated with Ivy Bridge (Y series) only, no Haswell:
http://translate.google.com/translat...s-le-printemps
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