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Old Aug 15, 2013, 12:30 AM   #26
steve knight
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Originally Posted by dukebound85 View Post
I did not miss the point.

Are you implying it wasn't an accident?
no it was not a accident. He screwed up did not check to see if the gun was loaded he put his finger on the trigger he pulled the trigger. we tend to call things accidents where they are just people doing the wrong thing.
so did he have three accidents??
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Old Aug 15, 2013, 12:43 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by steve knight View Post
no it was not a accident. He screwed up did not check to see if the gun was loaded he put his finger on the trigger he pulled the trigger. we tend to call things accidents where they are just people doing the wrong thing.
so did he have three accidents??
Do I really need to define what an accident is? Fine

From the apple dictionary:
accident: an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury

From wikipedia:
An accident, mishap, or, more archaically, misadventure, is an unforeseen and unplanned event or circumstance, often with lack of intention or necessity. It usually implies a generally negative outcome which may have been avoided or prevented had circumstances leading up to the accident been recognized, and acted upon, prior to its occurrence.

It is an accident. Nobody ever means for them to happen. Not sure why you feel it is otherwise.
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Old Aug 15, 2013, 12:49 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by dukebound85 View Post
accident: an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury

By all accounts it is an accident. Nobody ever means for them to happen. Not sure why you feel it is otherwise.
Well yes I am sure he did not plan on shooting the gun. But he choose not to follow the rules that he was actually teaching. Driving through a red light and hitting someone is not an accident. yes the person did not plan on hitting someone but they did the things that let upto it and could have been eliminated if they followed the rules.
If he dropped the gun it went off that's one thing. But to not check that it was loaded when that's what he was teaching was not an accident. it was a stupid over site. If he can't follow the rules he is teaching he should not be teaching them.
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Old Aug 15, 2013, 12:51 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by steve knight View Post
Well yes I am sure he did not plan on shooting the gun. But he choose not to follow the rules that he was actually teaching. Driving through a red light and hitting someone is not an accident. yes the person did not plan on hitting someone but they did the things that let upto it and could have been eliminated if they followed the rules.
If he dropped the gun it went off that's one thing. But to not check that it was loaded when that's what he was teaching was not an accident. it was a stupid over site. If he can't follow the rules he is teaching he should not be teaching them.
I agree with the bold.

However, I would argue all accidents could have been prevented in hindsight.
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Old Aug 15, 2013, 12:55 AM   #30
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Can anyone think of a reasonable situation where you would pull a trigger while the gun was pointed towards people? Loaded or not?

Doesn't sound like any gun safety course I ever attended.
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Old Aug 15, 2013, 12:57 AM   #31
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Can anyone think of a reasonable situation where you would pull a trigger while the gun was pointed towards people? Loaded or not?

Doesn't sound like any gun safety course I ever attended.
I agree. Unless you intend to shoot what you aim, never aim the gun, loaded or not, at anything, esp people.
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Old Aug 15, 2013, 01:02 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by steve knight View Post
If he can't follow the rules he is teaching he should not be teaching them.
The gun people on here have cited the basic rules:
  • Always assume a gun is loaded
  • Never point at anything unless you want to shoot it/them
  • Never shoot at anything you do not want to kill

Under those rules, checking to see if a gun is loaded is not part of the drill, you just always assume it is. The instructor mishandled the weapon in the process of teaching proper handling, which the class surely found instructive, but ...
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Old Aug 15, 2013, 12:51 PM   #33
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Macncheese, what do you have on me that will consider me a “gun nut”? Crime can happen to anyone and anybody at any given time. I read a lot of arguments about banning guns completely here in America on this forum. The same with making current gun laws stricter, (which I do agree with at some degree) for the ones that do not own a gun and are against the second amendment, could run across a situation where having a gun could have saved themselves or a love one. There for, wishing they had a gun which will make them a hypocrite.
Because that situation will never happen to most people. And most people who are a victim of a crime will be praying for anything to help PLease god let the cops show up! Please god let some one notice this and come help me. But you immediately jump to the crazy situation that someone who wants to ban guns (a very small minority of the people the nuts call "call grabbers") will autmatically jump to: I wish I had a gun right now to blow this guy face off and not just I wish something or someone would help me now.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Acorn View Post
Can anyone think of a reasonable situation where you would pull a trigger while the gun was pointed towards people? Loaded or not?

Doesn't sound like any gun safety course I ever attended.
i don't let my kids point to anyone and pull the triggers on TOY guns. In other words, no, of course there isn't a reasonable situation...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dukebound85 View Post
I did not miss the point.

Are you implying it wasn't an accident?
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve knight View Post
no it was not a accident. He screwed up did not check to see if the gun was loaded he put his finger on the trigger he pulled the trigger. we tend to call things accidents where they are just people doing the wrong thing.
so did he have three accidents??
I think many people see things in black and white: either its an accident (nobody's at fault) or its on purpose. But there is an inbetween. Of course this guy didn't mean. But its not an accident. That's why we have laws like vehicle manslaughter. You didn't mean to kill anyone but you did something so wrong, you are responsible for a person's death and have to be punished. Don't text and drive....don't point a loaded weapon at someone...etc.
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Old Aug 15, 2013, 01:43 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by dukebound85 View Post
I agree. Unless you intend to shoot what you aim, never aim the gun, loaded or not, at anything, esp people.
Was it not a ricochet? Not that I'm defending the instructor.
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 09:47 AM   #35
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well for all the people who claim it was an accident it is not the first time he has shot someone on accident.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.co...t-time?ref=fpb
Certified firearms instructor Terry J. Dunlap Sr. accidentally shot someone in Fairfield County, Ohio earlier this month, but it wasn't the first time, the Columbus Dispatch reported Tuesday.

Thirty-six years earlier, Dunlap, then a Pickerington police department auxiliary lieutenant, fired his .38-caliber handgun into the air to create a "scary effect" for his daughter at a "haunted hayride," according to the Dispatch. The bullet ricocheted and hit 14-year-old Cathy Hessler in the leg, the newspaper said.

Earlier this month, police said Dunlap's .38-caliber handgun discharged while he was teaching a concealed carry firearm course, and the bullet ricocheted off a desk and into the arm of student Michael Piemonte, 26.

The woman who was wounded decades ago, now Cathy Schmelzer, 50, told the Dispatch she thought, “Oh no, he’s done it again!” when she heard the news of Dunlap's latest shooting.

Dunlap, 73, is seeking re-election as a Violet Township trustee. He was once a Pickerington police department captain and the community’s safety-service director, according to the Dispatch.

Both Schmelzer and Piemonte had the bullets removed at local hospitals.

“Up until he shot me accidentally, it was very informative, very well laid out,” Piemonte told the Dispatch of the firearm class taught by Dunlap. “I learned a lot. Then again, I was accidentally shot.”
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