Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Apple Systems and Services > OS X

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Dec 16, 2012, 11:54 AM   #1
Rhythmdvl
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
OSX backup software to an NAS (not TimeMachine)

We have an OSX machine (10.5.8) that we want to back up to an existing NAS. We cannot use Time Machine, so are looking for the Acronis of Mac, so to speak. We also do not want to back up to the cloud.

We want the full suite of capabilities—always running in the background, complete system restore on demand (i.e. if our Mac gets fried, we can rebuild to the last backup, software and all), recovery disk, autonomously managed space, integrity checks, etc.

It also has to have a very good/easy interface. This is going to go on my wife’s machine—she loathes learning new software, so the more handholding the better (or else it will just sit in the background).

While we’d rather not pay an exhorbinent amount, we don’t need it to be free/shareware.

Thanks~




*Time Machine requires that you have the target drive directly connected to the laptop. We’ve talked to Applecare and tried the workarounds on the net to no avail. It may work if we upgraded (twice), but that is not an option. If you think there is a solution we may have overlooked, great--but we've sunk a few hours into trying various commands and whatnot. This has even escaped Applecare.
Rhythmdvl is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 17, 2012, 08:41 AM   #2
switon
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
RE: 10.5.8 and TM...

Hi Rhythmdvl,

As I'm sure Apple pointed out, your real problem is 10.5.8. You say that upgrading is not an option, but under 10.5 TM does not easily attach to non-TC network drives (although I do believe it is possible to force TM to do this through terminal commands, it is not possible using the GUI interface). If you upgrade, however, then TM's GUI allows you to use networked drives for backups.

If you want to attempt to "do this yourself", then try:

Code:
defaults write com.apple.systempreferences TMShowUnsupportedNetworkVolumes 1
to see if the network volumes then become visible in the TM's GUI. If so, then you may or may not be able to easily setup TM on the network drive. If TM will create its sparse.bundle, then your are good to go. But TM may not create the sparse.bundle on the network drive. If this happens then you can still force it to work by creating your own sparse.bundle, moving it to the network drive, and then telling TM to use it. All of this requires the use of "hdiutil" and "tmutil" terminal commands.

Edit: To create a 500GB sparse bundle use something like: (I can't really be sure what to use here since I'm not running 10.5.8 and thus the naming is just a guess...you can perhaps look at your system to see how the naming should go. TM in 10.5.8 also may allow most any names, as long as you specify the exact name in a "tmutil inheritbackup..." command.)

Code:
hdiutil create -size 500g -fs HFS+J -volname "Time Machine" FQDN_MAC.sparsebundle
where FQDN is the name of the computer on the network (e.g., MyMac.private) and MAC
is the MAC address without the colons. Transfer this sparse bundle to the network drive using "dd", and set it as the TM destination using the appropriate "tmutil setdestination..." command.

Again, I don't even know if these terminal commands are available under 10.5.8.

Regards,
Switon

Last edited by switon; Dec 17, 2012 at 09:04 AM. Reason: added Edit:
switon is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 17, 2012, 08:49 AM   #3
satcomer
macrumors 68040
 
satcomer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Upstate NYS
Try Carbon Copy Cloner (make sure you get the version for your version of OS X). It will have a scheduler built into it.
__________________
Mac Pro Dual 2.8 Quad(Rev B.), 16 G RAM, OS X 10.9, 23'' LCD
Mac Book Pro Core 2 Duo 2.16Ghz, SuperDrive, 2G RAM, OS X 10.7.5
iPad 3, 32 black
satcomer is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 17, 2012, 08:55 AM   #4
zhenya
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Try CrashPlan which allows you to use their excellent software for free if you aren't backing up to their servers. Very simple interface, extremely reliable, and it does an excellent job of block level deduplication to minimize backup times and sizes while maximizing the number of file versions you can retain.
zhenya is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 17, 2012, 09:52 AM   #5
rhoydotp
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
1) for free, you can run "rsync" on the background

2) or you can try these other free methods:

I wrote this simple steps for using a remote AFP share
http://odnalor.org/wp/2012/11/17/osx...-over-afp.html

which is based on these steps for NFS share
http://blog.mediafederation.com/andy...-error-13-etc/

3) or you can pay money and use other things that have been suggested here already
__________________
my pc died and i hardly noticed, go figure
rhoydotp is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 17, 2012, 10:19 AM   #6
zhenya
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhoydotp View Post
1) for free, you can run "rsync" on the background

2) or you can try these other free methods:

I wrote this simple steps for using a remote AFP share
http://odnalor.org/wp/2012/11/17/osx...-over-afp.html

which is based on these steps for NFS share
http://blog.mediafederation.com/andy...-error-13-etc/

3) or you can pay money and use other things that have been suggested here already
rsync isn't nearly as powerful as modern backup utilities that do endless file versioning while requiring little additional backup space due to block-level deduplication. And as I mentioned, CrashPlan lets you use those powerful tools for free for local backups.

Rhythmdvl - In our Windows environment at my office, we treat images differently than backups. Images are large files that are mostly static, and are difficult to manage once you start making incremental versions of them. We use Acronis for occasional machine images, but real file backup software for daily use.

On OSX, due to the way the system is designed, this is a little bit less important. So long as you back up your users Home and Applications directories, you can pretty much restore quickly from a clean install. Unless you really need the ability to restore a recent image as quickly as possible, that system is adding extra complexity to your backup routine, which, IMHO, should be as simple and as hands-off as possible. If it makes you feel better, I'd suggest doing one image backup either with Disk Utility or CCC and archiving it, then use file level backups for the regular day-to-day backups.

May I ask why you are writing off cloud backups? In my experience they are among the most reliable and hands-off way of backing up simple user data, and it is extremely cheap with many providers.
zhenya is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 17, 2012, 10:31 AM   #7
justperry
macrumors 603
 
justperry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 7 Km South of an active upside down (boat) volcano.
Quote:
Originally Posted by switon View Post

Again, I don't even know if these terminal commands are available under 10.5.8.

Regards,
Switon
tmutil is not available on 10.5.8.
justperry is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 17, 2012, 10:39 AM   #8
switon
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
RE: 10.5.8 and TM...

Quote:
Originally Posted by justperry View Post
tmutil is not available on 10.5.8.
Thanks for the information justperry...I have never used 10.5.8, as I moved from Linux servers to 10.6.8 server and thus did not know if tmutil was available in 10.5 -- that's why I wrote my caveat in the post. I assume that under 10.5 there must have been other terminal commands that could be used?

I know others are suggesting a variety of third-party backup programs...I wonder how these run under 10.5? In my opinion, the best option for the OP is to upgrade to 10.8 and then use TM for his/her network backups.

Regards,
Switon
switon is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 17, 2012, 10:46 AM   #9
zhenya
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by switon View Post
Thanks for the information justperry...I have never used 10.5.8, as I moved from Linux servers to 10.6.8 server and thus did not know if tmutil was available in 10.5 -- that's why I wrote my caveat in the post. I assume that under 10.5 there must have been other terminal commands that could be used?

I know others are suggesting a variety of third-party backup programs...I wonder how these run under 10.5? In my opinion, the best option for the OP is to upgrade to 10.8 and then use TM for his/her network backups.

Regards,
Switon
TM with network backups to a destination other than a Time Capsule or a drive connected directly to another Mac on the network are always a mixed bag, even on 10.8. The commands you suggest get some configurations working, but it is not supported, and software updates are prone to breaking compatibility at any time. I did this for about 5 years, and in practice, I had a couple of random failures where I had to reconfigure everything, and every major OS update broke the connection (and the old fixes would no longer work) so you were left with no backups until a solution became available. At at least one transition I ended up resetting my backups and starting over.

There is no reason that 3rd party backups can't do a perfectly good job. We still use Time Machine going to a USB drive on my iMac, but we also use CrashPlan which has required zero configuration hassles since we set it up years ago.
zhenya is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 17, 2012, 10:56 AM   #10
switon
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
RE: interesting...

Quote:
Originally Posted by zhenya View Post
TM with network backups to a destination other than a Time Capsule or a drive connected directly to another Mac on the network are always a mixed bag, even on 10.8. The commands you suggest get some configurations working, but it is not supported, and software updates are prone to breaking compatibility at any time. I did this for about 5 years, and in practice, I had a couple of random failures where I had to reconfigure everything, and every major OS update broke the connection (and the old fixes would no longer work) so you were left with no backups until a solution became available. At at least one transition I ended up resetting my backups and starting over.

There is no reason that 3rd party backups can't do a perfectly good job. We still use Time Machine going to a USB drive on my iMac, but we also use CrashPlan which has required zero configuration hassles since we set it up years ago.
Hi zhenya,

Interesting that CrashPlan works so well with no hassles. Sounds like a good backup program. Does it use the rsync remote backup protocols?

It is also interesting that you say that TM network backups are a "mixed bag" on 10.8. Personally I have not had any trouble with TM backups on network drives under 10.8.2, but I guess I should cross my toes and hope that I don't have problems in the future.

I personally use several different backup schemes in combination, all the way from using "dd" for certain data files, "rsync" for others, TM for users's daily content generation, and CCC for the occasional creation of a bootable backup of the system volume for each Mac.

Thanks for the information,
Switon
switon is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 17, 2012, 11:22 AM   #11
zhenya
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by switon View Post
Hi zhenya,

Interesting that CrashPlan works so well with no hassles. Sounds like a good backup program. Does it use the rsync remote backup protocols?

It is also interesting that you say that TM network backups are a "mixed bag" on 10.8. Personally I have not had any trouble with TM backups on network drives under 10.8.2, but I guess I should cross my toes and hope that I don't have problems in the future.

I personally use several different backup schemes in combination, all the way from using "dd" for certain data files, "rsync" for others, TM for users's daily content generation, and CCC for the occasional creation of a bootable backup of the system volume for each Mac.

Thanks for the information,
Switon
I don't know exactly what protocols Crashplan uses, but I doubt it is rsync as it appears to be much more advanced than that. It has been so flawless on our home machines that we are currently in a test period with it on some of our client machines at the office.

Good to hear that Time Machine is working for you well. I had long periods of time where it did for me, but I eventually got tired of having to expend a great deal of time at each update to OSX to ensure that it continued to work. Breaks my cardinal rule of backups which is 'hands off.'
zhenya is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 17, 2012, 12:15 PM   #12
rhoydotp
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by zhenya View Post
rsync isn't nearly as powerful as modern backup utilities that do endless file versioning while requiring little additional backup space due to block-level deduplication.
almost true ... but TM utilizes symlinks which are native to unix systems. does crash-plan actually provide you with data deduplication on the ingest or data-at-rest?
__________________
my pc died and i hardly noticed, go figure
rhoydotp is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 17, 2012, 12:26 PM   #13
zhenya
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhoydotp View Post
almost true ... but TM utilizes symlinks which are native to unix systems. does crash-plan actually provide you with data deduplication on the ingest or data-at-rest?
I'm not sure if I understand your question, but my understanding of how CrashPlan works is that it scans every block before it is sent to the backup destination and compares that block against those it has already backed up. If it finds a match, it moves on to the next block. When it finds a unique block it is compressed, encrypted, and sent.

Does that answer your question?
zhenya is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > Apple Systems and Services > OS X

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Remote Timemachine back up to NAS drive cosh22 Mac Peripherals 3 Apr 8, 2014 12:59 PM
software for backup on NAS ( Qnap ) al404 Mac Applications and Mac App Store 1 Oct 29, 2013 12:13 PM
Synology for NAS/Time Machine/Backup? Newb Backup Here psychbiker Mac Peripherals 9 Jun 3, 2013 08:44 AM
TimeMachine Backup on a PC? gadgetmonster Mac Basics and Help 4 Dec 11, 2012 06:16 PM
How can I backup my NAS? What software? jcrusselljr Mac Applications and Mac App Store 2 Nov 16, 2012 06:13 AM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:04 PM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC