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Old Jun 27, 2013, 11:27 AM   #201
Mark Booth
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There can be ZERO doubt.... Hogan KNEW what he had "found" was something special (prototype) and he KNEW that he might be able to profit from being in possession of it. There can be ZERO doubt that Hogan's PRIMARY OBJECTIVE was to benefit personally from STEALING someone else's property. GREED was his motivator!

Anyone who believes otherwise is either a fool or is also as completely lacking in personal honor as was Hogan!

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Old Jun 27, 2013, 12:00 PM   #202
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Here's a nice rule of thumb, if it doesn't belong to you... it doesn't belong to you.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 12:03 PM   #203
Shaun, UK
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Originally Posted by Dieu View Post
Not quite correct Shaun: Now,we have everyone playing lawyer. Hogan was to leave the phone with the bar/restaurant owner. He was under no obligation to take the phone and solicit buyers. If Our Good Samaritan Hogan was so inclined to find its owner, he could have left it at the bar, drop it off at the police station, OR TAKE IT IN TO A LOCAL APPLE STORE AND EXPLAIN THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

Can't wait to read the next inaccurate and misguided post.
That's pretty much what I said in the first place. It's not a crime to take the phone, it's only a crime if you hang on to it or try to sell it on. People were saying that as he took the phone that's theft. Not so. If I find something in the street and take it home that's ok. It's only theft if I keep it.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 09:47 PM   #204
NoCleverSNForMe
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Originally Posted by Mark Booth View Post
There can be ZERO doubt.... Hogan KNEW what he had "found" was something special (prototype) and he KNEW that he might be able to profit from being in possession of it. There can be ZERO doubt that Hogan's PRIMARY OBJECTIVE was to benefit personally from STEALING someone else's property. GREED was his motivator!

Anyone who believes otherwise is either a fool or is also as completely lacking in personal honor as was Hogan!

Mark
Loved this post. It's so obvious - he had one goal: to make money/fame off of his discovery.

I was thinking to myself when the story broke, "Man, I wonder if this kid will regret it once the iPhone 5/6/7/8/9/X/11/12/13 comes out."

That's the thing - as much as I love technology, it gets old very fast. In three months, we'll all be ooohing and aaahing over the next iPhone. In 12 months, we'll be bored with it and awaiting the next generation. Sometimes we need to take a step back..
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 12:35 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by rdlink View Post
Still a violation of the law. His obligation by law was to either attempt to return it to the original owner, or leave it where he found it. Giving it to a web blogging site is not an attempt to return it to the owner.
So if he had given it to the bar owner it would be "still a violation of the law". Give it up, you're not going to convert me. I was never giving legal advice this whole thread but pointing fun at the laws, sorry you missed it...
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 03:45 PM   #206
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Man. Give the guy a break. He admitted what he did was wrong, and stupid. No one was really hurt here... He certainly did more damage to himself than to anyone else. He obviously realizes it, and is attempting to grow from it. Kudos to him for having the balls to admit it on the internets with it's mob mentality. Some folks act like they've never done anything wrong or lacking judgment in their pasts.... sheesh!

Last edited by Blatboy; Jun 28, 2013 at 03:46 PM. Reason: grammar police
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 09:45 AM   #207
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Here is my problem with this in a nutshell.

If a person picks up a dollar bill in the street, it is not theft.
If a person picks up a $100 bill in the street, it is not theft.
If a person finds my wedding band that I lost in the ocean it is not theft. (true story)

In all these cases the person's abandonment of the object relinquishes ownership of the item. Wedding band might be a little more legally confusing in the presence of a law like California's, but moving forward.

The theft only comes into question in legal terms when the original owner somehow protests the possession of an item by a second party. The process of people acquiring possession of abandoned items occurs every day, and in this case the phone was abandoned. To come back after the fact and say I want item X back is all well in good but you should never expect to get X back.

If you can prove you own it and that the item is indeed yours, you are entitled to have it returned to you regardless of the items current possessor. A person who finds an item should not be legally obligated to find the person the item belongs nor make any effort to find that person. (There are huge differences between legal and moral obligations.) I lost my wallet once, it had my drivers license in it that had my address, it is clear who it belonged to so the person that found my wallet is guilty of theft? perhaps in the eyes of the law but not in my eyes! The real legal issue should have been between gizmodo and this guy for selling gizmodo something that he did not have the right to sell. (and gizmodo knew what they were getting, a prototype iphone does not just show up in media hands, they had to at least consider it was a hot item.) Apple really isn't owned anything in my eyes after they were fortunate to get their device back.

I am not a lawyer and I know there are major differences between misplaced, abandonded and so on in the legal world. So don't overanalyze the vernacular in this comment. In my eyes if you forget it you abandoned it (isn't that what they call if you leave behind your child for 2 seconds. a child is never misplaced.)
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 07:16 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by quagmire View Post
That is sort of like blaming a rape victim who got wasted and guys took advantage of that......

Don't blame the thief.... Blame the person who lost the phone..... The thief is the real victim here.....
I wouldn't go that far. A rape victim is a victim, whereas the Apple employee was negligent and screwed up.

However, your point stands. Exonerating the thief because the Apple employee messed up is absurd logic. Unfortunately, this is the way that many people in the world rationalize their unethical behavior. "Well, you know...the guy dropped his wallet, so it's mine now! He's the one to blame for my shady reaction!"

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Originally Posted by wirefire99 View Post
Here is my problem with this in a nutshell.

If a person picks up a dollar bill in the street, it is not theft.
If a person picks up a $100 bill in the street, it is not theft.
If a person finds my wedding band that I lost in the ocean it is not theft. (true story)
Wonderful comparison...except none of these items is registered to you exclusively like the Apple prototype was.
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 07:44 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by applebook View Post
I wouldn't go that far. A rape victim is a victim, whereas the Apple employee was negligent and screwed up.

However, your point stands. Exonerating the thief because the Apple employee messed up is absurd logic. Unfortunately, this is the way that many people in the world rationalize their unethical behavior. "Well, you know...the guy dropped his wallet, so it's mine now! He's the one to blame for my shady reaction!"
A lot of people do say that if a woman dresses provocatively or is wasted she put herself into the situation and is to blame.

It may be an extreme comparison because theft is not even close to rape, but it gets the point across. Yeah the guy screwed up and left it at the bar. People lose stuff all the time by mistake. It happens. Doesn't make it right for people to sell their property over this misguided notion of, " finders keepers".
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Last edited by quagmire; Jun 29, 2013 at 08:32 PM.
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 10:54 PM   #210
StyxMaker
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He should suck it up. Tried to make a profit and didn't work out. Stop the whining.

I would have called Apple to inform them I have one of their testing devices and would like to return it.

In return I would have asked to speak 10-15 minutes to either Jony Ive or (at the time) Steve Jobs. This experience would have been a lot more worth than 5K.
Be very careful how and when you ask, or you might end up being charged with attempted extortion.
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 11:10 PM   #211
StyxMaker
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Originally Posted by Peace View Post
Wasn't everybody here defending this guy when it happened ? And bashing Apple ?

Now it turns out he was just a selfish thief.

Go figure.
No, when it happened more commenters were calling him a thief than were not.
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 11:40 PM   #212
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This. I would've emailed Jobs directly and used the prototype as a bargaining chip to set up a once in a lifetime meeting with him maybe grab coffee and give him the phone directly without leaking it. Who knows maybe Jobs would've been moved by the act and offered him a position at Apple? That would've been my angle, instead he made a quick $5k that disappeared just as fast in legal fees.
And, maybe, Jobs would have considered it attempted extortion and you would have been met at the coffee shop my local police officers.

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Originally Posted by hundleton1 View Post
I would have simply taken the phone and gone to apple campus and left a note for Steve Jobs lable, very important, note would say "Hi Steve Iv got the phone safe call me on this number"

Even if the note never made it to Steve it would have gone to some one in his office, arranged a face to face meeting and handed over the phone stating that i wanted to hand it over in person as i knew it was likely a secret product unreleased product and did not want it falling into the wrong hands, then I would have negotiated a deal for my silence in the whole matter such as free Apple products for life and a seat a the launch

Far better than the crap that bloke brought upon him self.
Another person flirting with extortion.
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 12:25 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by StyxMaker View Post
And, maybe, Jobs would have considered it attempted extortion and you would have been met at the coffee shop my local police officers.

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Another person flirting with extortion.
Anything that comes across like extortion would be a bad idea, even just on a personal level. I figure if one has another person's belongings there are no terms unless the owner wishes to give you something and that should not be the reason to do the right thing.
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 12:31 AM   #214
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When honest people find something that doesn't belong to them they turn it in to lost and found so that the owner can reclaim it later.

Congratulations, you learned something today!
And we learned not to let anything out of our sight when he's around.
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 12:36 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by ineedamac View Post
I would have contacted someone at Apple to set up a meeting where I could return the iPhone. That would be the right thing to do.
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Old Jul 9, 2013, 10:35 PM   #216
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Be very careful how and when you ask, or you might end up being charged with attempted extortion.
uh ??? I didn't say "demand" to talk to either of them. Of course if they would have declined ... it's alright.
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