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Old Jul 22, 2014, 02:59 AM   #2851
iHack13
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Alright guys.
So in case anyone is interested, here is the documentation.

When Mr. mousepad told me to measure some points on the top side of the logic board I had to unplug several connectors since it's impossible to make the measurements with keyboard and HD cable etc plugged in.

So with only the battery, Trackpad and fan left (iirc) , I shorted the power on pads to power on the machine and at first I even didn't realize that the machine turned on, since there was no display attached I relied on the fan noise which used to spin at 6200rpm .. and you can't overhear that.
But actually when I looked at the fan I saw it rotating very slowly and quiet and I was like wow I've had headaches for the past couple of days because of this friggin fan noise and this is exactly how quiet it should be when I'm working with it.
Nevertheless I thought that it's not a big deal and the machine just doesn't properly boot up and that it's in some kind of pre boot phase, where the fan doesn't go crazy yet, with some important cables not plugged in (HDD etc)

But I went on and made my measurements on Probe 1517 and 1518 I believe it was (the SMC lines coming from Trackpad , ALS, Digital SMS)
I got correct 3.3V.
So I turned the logic board around and retook measurements on the 6 points I posted earlier at R5270 and R5271 and so on.
All of a sudden I got 3.3V at all six points now!

I started to think that by unplugging one of the cables I sorted out the culprit.
So I plugged back in all the cables that didn't have much to do with the problem: HDD cable, Superdrive, Audio, Keyboard, Display, BIL
And the only thing I left unplugged was the iSight camera+ALS cable which shares the specific SMC line with trackpad and SMS.
I turned the machine back on, prayed , and it was fixed! Machine is totally usable right now: no kernel_task at 300% and no loud fan noise and no laggy trackpad.
Booted up ASD OS and checked the sensors and Ts0p was fine! All checks passed.
Afterwards I plugged back in the cam/ALS cable and the Ts0p showed up again and the fans started kicking crazy again.

And I am very ashamed because the problem seemed to be ovious. Well at least for non-complicated people (which I am not).
As I told you after the drop the glas of the screen cracked and it has some severe cracks near the left frame and the top left frame just next to the camera. It's so shattered in that area that you might cut your finger when swiping over the glas.
Meaning that either the cable or the camera and ALS board underneath is damaged.
So maybe I would've found the problem earlier after taking off the cracked glas if my replacement glas arrived.

Thanks again to mousepad and everyone helping me out. Especially thanks for the schematics and the brd.

If you have any questions feel free to ask.
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Old Jul 22, 2014, 10:19 AM   #2852
Sheridansystems
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZZAC View Post
The two measuring 9.19k are C6953 and C6953 capacitors.
the fact they only measure 9.19k says to me that something in the BIL circuit is pulling them to ground and somethings short circuit somewhere.

ive attached a jpg of the BRD for the two capacitors you were after, but im not going to do any more components for you, just get this board view software running via WINE or crossover or something!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------




I honestly find by using a preheater my solder time is lower, this doesnt sound significant but i like to think some of these chips and area's are actualy somewhat heat sensitive, the quicker i can get the heat away from components the happier i am. It also means i can run my hot air station at a lower tempriture for the reason that the board is already sat at around at 180 or so.

sometimes i dont use the preheater but i usually do. To put it simply it is overkill and unnecessary for things like resistors, capacitors, maybe even bigger QFN's but i wouldn't like to change or reball an SMC without a bottom heater as the pads may come away if the boards not up to temperature and your wicking the old solder of the board.
having good equipment does certainly make a difference, im tempted to change my iron soon.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In my personal endeavors i have a very frustrating problem. My SDA line is being pulled down with a resistance of 0.5k to ground, whereas a simalar board is 30k to ground. it only measures 0.6v rather than 3.4v

the board generates all the correct voltages apart from this. it will run of a charged battery however not recognize it. im so confused as to why this problem has persisted consider the steps ive taken in attempt to resolve this.

i may go round to do a final sweep of all the potential components again, i notice when i first saw the short it was 32ohm or something rather low. so i may have actually found and replaced one faulty capacitor or something since then because the short is now 0.5k since attempting to resolve this. am i mad to think there could be more than one component failure on this line thats causing this?
could the old battery have exploded or something?
maybe someone could theorize why its not working properly. sure seams to have beaten my brain hard.
please check the attached pictures. Have a great day!
Finally got Landrex running on my iMac running OSX 10.9.4, I hope these directions help someone else find the proper files they need.

What worked for me was::

install and run Xcode, Install and run Crossover, Download Wine and download Landrex test viewer from laptopserviz.bg, (landrex file on MacRumors seems to be damaged) find xxx.brd on Mac Rumors.
Run crossover to run Wine to run landrex to open .brd file. OK a little bit of a run around but the board viewer software is so very necessity to diag these logic boards.
Again thanks for the help.

Is there a way to find the component,pin to component,pin connections? or do I need to use the schematic? Does the full version of Landrex have any advanced features that may help in diagnosing?
thanks

Last edited by Sheridansystems; Jul 22, 2014 at 11:28 AM.
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Old Jul 22, 2014, 02:14 PM   #2853
iHack13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheridansystems View Post
Is there a way to find the component,pin to component,pin connections? or do I need to use the schematic? Does the full version of Landrex have any advanced features that may help in diagnosing?
thanks
Well here is a little Documentation on how to use Landrex Test Link.

Navigation:
Double (left) click to zoom in
Right click to zoom out

Buttons:
Red Arrow: Is for turning the board 90 each time you click on it (after you click away the error that it can't find the thumbnail bitmap just click again somewhere to get the board turned)

Yellow V: basically shows all the Part Numbers on the components

Navigation Arrows North/East/West/South: self explaining

Top/Bot: Click to toggle between top side of board and bottom side

Home: Zooms out to 100% and centers the board again

Menu Items:

File - open File or exit program (self explanatory)

Open: finds and highlights only the probing points according to the probing point number that are open on the board (basically contact points where nothing is soldered on)

Short: finds and highlights all probing points according to the probe number. can be: Pins from ICs, Resistors, Capacitors, open points basically everything

Net: finds and highlights all probing points according to the probe name eg. PP3V3_S3 or the most used one GND

Comp: finds and highlights the component when entering it's name. e.g.. J5800 for connector, R5270 for resistor, U4900 for IC etc etc

I had to find these out for my self. Hope that does help you and others.
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Old Jul 23, 2014, 11:31 AM   #2854
Sheridansystems
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZZAC View Post
The two measuring 9.19k are C6953 and C6953 capacitors.
the fact they only measure 9.19k says to me that something in the BIL circuit is pulling them to ground and somethings short circuit somewhere.

ive attached a jpg of the BRD for the two capacitors you were after, but im not going to do any more components for you, just get this board view software running via WINE or crossover or something!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------




I honestly find by using a preheater my solder time is lower, this doesnt sound significant but i like to think some of these chips and area's are actualy somewhat heat sensitive, the quicker i can get the heat away from components the happier i am. It also means i can run my hot air station at a lower tempriture for the reason that the board is already sat at around at 180 or so.

sometimes i dont use the preheater but i usually do. To put it simply it is overkill and unnecessary for things like resistors, capacitors, maybe even bigger QFN's but i wouldn't like to change or reball an SMC without a bottom heater as the pads may come away if the boards not up to temperature and your wicking the old solder of the board.
having good equipment does certainly make a difference, im tempted to change my iron soon.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In my personal endeavors i have a very frustrating problem. My SDA line is being pulled down with a resistance of 0.5k to ground, whereas a simalar board is 30k to ground. it only measures 0.6v rather than 3.4v

the board generates all the correct voltages apart from this. it will run of a charged battery however not recognize it. im so confused as to why this problem has persisted consider the steps ive taken in attempt to resolve this.

i may go round to do a final sweep of all the potential components again, i notice when i first saw the short it was 32ohm or something rather low. so i may have actually found and replaced one faulty capacitor or something since then because the short is now 0.5k since attempting to resolve this. am i mad to think there could be more than one component failure on this line thats causing this?
could the old battery have exploded or something?
maybe someone could theorize why its not working properly. sure seams to have beaten my brain hard.
please check the attached pictures. Have a great day!
I am seeing a component not listed on the schematic or board view, it is soldered between C7040 and C7041 on Pins 2. The same component is on another 820-2530-a board. Can anyone help to determine why its not listed on the documentation?
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Old Jul 23, 2014, 11:38 AM   #2855
Sheridansystems
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iHack13 View Post
Well here is a little Documentation on how to use Landrex Test Link.

Navigation:
Double (left) click to zoom in
Right click to zoom out

Buttons:
Red Arrow: Is for turning the board 90 each time you click on it (after you click away the error that it can't find the thumbnail bitmap just click again somewhere to get the board turned)

Yellow V: basically shows all the Part Numbers on the components

Navigation Arrows North/East/West/South: self explaining

Top/Bot: Click to toggle between top side of board and bottom side

Home: Zooms out to 100% and centers the board again

Menu Items:

File - open File or exit program (self explanatory)

Open: finds and highlights only the probing points according to the probing point number that are open on the board (basically contact points where nothing is soldered on)

Short: finds and highlights all probing points according to the probe number. can be: Pins from ICs, Resistors, Capacitors, open points basically everything

Net: finds and highlights all probing points according to the probe name eg. PP3V3_S3 or the most used one GND

Comp: finds and highlights the component when entering it's name. e.g.. J5800 for connector, R5270 for resistor, U4900 for IC etc etc

I had to find these out for my self. Hope that does help you and others.
Thanks for the help, I was floundering, telling me how the Net works really helps! Question on Short? how do I input the probe numbers? or (U) all (/U)? THANKS in advance.
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Old Jul 23, 2014, 11:48 AM   #2856
iHack13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheridansystems View Post
I am seeing a component not listed on the schematic or board view, it is soldered between C7040 and C7041 on Pins 2. The same component is on another 820-2530-a board. Can anyone help to determine why its not listed on the documentation?

lol
it doesnt have to be in the middle.

First of all you are thinking way too complicated

Why don't you search the R7040 via component search and see where it is
It's not far actually
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Old Jul 23, 2014, 01:06 PM   #2857
kreliz
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Can somebody please give me a Digikey link for this capacitor?
I don't understand the "CERM" part.

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Old Jul 23, 2014, 01:19 PM   #2858
iHack13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kreliz View Post
Can somebody please give me a Digikey link for this capacitor?
I don't understand the "CERM" part.

Image
cerm means ceramic capacitor
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Old Jul 23, 2014, 01:27 PM   #2859
kreliz
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Originally Posted by iHack13 View Post
cerm means ceramic capacitor
So what is a safe temperature coefficient to get?
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Old Jul 23, 2014, 01:31 PM   #2860
iHack13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kreliz View Post
So what is a safe temperature coefficient to get?
X7R should be fine.
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Old Jul 23, 2014, 05:24 PM   #2861
Astroboy907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZZAC View Post
The SMC is unhappy with something, and it could well be pin 14 of U7000 being low.

if you are experienced with this kind of work i find it easier to just replace the chip and if theres no change theres no change.
It's not much better after replacement. I *finally* got everything set up (I snagged a preheater off of eBay, cheaper than the knock off brands and it was a Hakko!). Replaced the chip, went fine except I didn't have a lot of solder on the pads. Now I get 0.8v with the charger on and 2.2v with the charger and the battery on pin 14. Perhaps a bit concerning is I ordered an ISL625 9AHRTZ but they sent an 8AHRTZ.

I'm trying to trace it down further but I'm not sure what I'll come up with. I still get 3.4v on G3hot, but have lost my 12v on the fuse and now it refuses to boot even with an SMC bypass.

At this point I'm considering selling it for parts now that I know at least the display works... Ugh!

Thanks so much for your help though! If I don't find anything concerning in the next couple of days I'll probably just get rid of it. Better to do that then be frustrated with it.
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Old Jul 24, 2014, 05:08 AM   #2862
ZZZAC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroboy907 View Post
It's not much better after replacement. I *finally* got everything set up (I snagged a preheater off of eBay, cheaper than the knock off brands and it was a Hakko!). Replaced the chip, went fine except I didn't have a lot of solder on the pads. Now I get 0.8v with the charger on and 2.2v with the charger and the battery on pin 14. Perhaps a bit concerning is I ordered an ISL625 9AHRTZ but they sent an 8AHRTZ.

I'm trying to trace it down further but I'm not sure what I'll come up with. I still get 3.4v on G3hot, but have lost my 12v on the fuse and now it refuses to boot even with an SMC bypass.

At this point I'm considering selling it for parts now that I know at least the display works... Ugh!

Thanks so much for your help though! If I don't find anything concerning in the next couple of days I'll probably just get rid of it. Better to do that then be frustrated with it.
isl6258HRTZ isnt compatable wiht is6259HRTZ
i personally find using a fibre pen on the bottom of the chips and tinning the outer pads means your not left with any bad joints (the enamel on the chip doesnt tin very well unless you rub it with a fibre pen)

i also find once youve used excess solder to center the isl using surface tension t you should let it cool and then reheat it with pressure on top, this should squeez out the excess sololder.

Trust me these chips are difficult to solder, i do this work nearly every day now and still have trouble!
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Old Jul 24, 2014, 12:41 PM   #2863
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Originally Posted by ZZZAC View Post
isl6258HRTZ isnt compatable wiht is6259HRTZ
i personally find using a fibre pen on the bottom of the chips and tinning the outer pads means your not left with any bad joints (the enamel on the chip doesnt tin very well unless you rub it with a fibre pen)

i also find once youve used excess solder to center the isl using surface tension t you should let it cool and then reheat it with pressure on top, this should squeez out the excess sololder.

Trust me these chips are difficult to solder, i do this work nearly every day now and still have trouble!
That would be it! I'll see if I can get the right chip from the guy who sold it to me. My receipt says 9AHRTZ....

Fibre pen? I'm assuming a fibre tipped flux pen? I was actually surprised at how easy this went, the only thing I would do different would be to add solder on the outer pins as you describe.
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Old Jul 24, 2014, 01:26 PM   #2864
tiagobaracho
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Originally Posted by iHack13 View Post
Alright guys.
So in case anyone is interested, here is the documentation.

When Mr. mousepad told me to measure some points on the top side of the logic board I had to unplug several connectors since it's impossible to make the measurements with keyboard and HD cable etc plugged in.

So with only the battery, Trackpad and fan left (iirc) , I shorted the power on pads to power on the machine and at first I even didn't realize that the machine turned on, since there was no display attached I relied on the fan noise which used to spin at 6200rpm .. and you can't overhear that.
But actually when I looked at the fan I saw it rotating very slowly and quiet and I was like wow I've had headaches for the past couple of days because of this friggin fan noise and this is exactly how quiet it should be when I'm working with it.
Nevertheless I thought that it's not a big deal and the machine just doesn't properly boot up and that it's in some kind of pre boot phase, where the fan doesn't go crazy yet, with some important cables not plugged in (HDD etc)

But I went on and made my measurements on Probe 1517 and 1518 I believe it was (the SMC lines coming from Trackpad , ALS, Digital SMS)
I got correct 3.3V.
So I turned the logic board around and retook measurements on the 6 points I posted earlier at R5270 and R5271 and so on.
All of a sudden I got 3.3V at all six points now!

I started to think that by unplugging one of the cables I sorted out the culprit.
So I plugged back in all the cables that didn't have much to do with the problem: HDD cable, Superdrive, Audio, Keyboard, Display, BIL
And the only thing I left unplugged was the iSight camera+ALS cable which shares the specific SMC line with trackpad and SMS.
I turned the machine back on, prayed , and it was fixed! Machine is totally usable right now: no kernel_task at 300% and no loud fan noise and no laggy trackpad.
Booted up ASD OS and checked the sensors and Ts0p was fine! All checks passed.
Afterwards I plugged back in the cam/ALS cable and the Ts0p showed up again and the fans started kicking crazy again.

And I am very ashamed because the problem seemed to be ovious. Well at least for non-complicated people (which I am not).
As I told you after the drop the glas of the screen cracked and it has some severe cracks near the left frame and the top left frame just next to the camera. It's so shattered in that area that you might cut your finger when swiping over the glas.
Meaning that either the cable or the camera and ALS board underneath is damaged.
So maybe I would've found the problem earlier after taking off the cracked glas if my replacement glas arrived.

Thanks again to mousepad and everyone helping me out. Especially thanks for the schematics and the brd.

If you have any questions feel free to ask.

see what i told you about removing the boarding and trying out outside?
glad you found it,,
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Old Jul 24, 2014, 05:13 PM   #2865
ZZZAC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroboy907 View Post
That would be it! I'll see if I can get the right chip from the guy who sold it to me. My receipt says 9AHRTZ....

Fibre pen? I'm assuming a fibre tipped flux pen? I was actually surprised at how easy this went, the only thing I would do different would be to add solder on the outer pins as you describe.
an abbrasive fibreglass pen, great for cleaning corrosion and traces, woudlnt be able to do allot of the things i do without it
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Old Jul 24, 2014, 08:33 PM   #2866
tiagobaracho
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Originally Posted by ZZZAC View Post
an abbrasive fibreglass pen, great for cleaning corrosion and traces, woudlnt be able to do allot of the things i do without it
i use it too... its great sometimes..
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Old Jul 25, 2014, 10:56 AM   #2867
Sheridansystems
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Originally Posted by iHack13 View Post
lol
it doesnt have to be in the middle.

First of all you are thinking way too complicated

Why don't you search the R7040 via component search and see where it is
It's not far actually
I attached a pic of a spare 820-2530-a see the component in the upper right corner. I just don't see it anywhere on my docs? But its on two logic boards, just confused.
Another question, using the SMBUS_SMC_BGA_SCL or SMC_BGA_SCL does not show up on Net? Almost all the other names from the SMC show up just not the one I'm looking for, of course.
Really newbie question, besides conductivity, what tests can I get from the test points? Ohms?, resistance? Thanks for your help!
I am really enjoying this, and looking forward to my IPC course.
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Old Yesterday, 02:49 AM   #2868
AliveAndKicking
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If I remove the ram and there are no beeps that would suggest that the system isint reaching post , right?
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Old Yesterday, 02:08 PM   #2869
Yako76
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Macbook Air 13 late 2010

Dear Specialists,
I got a Logicboard with spilled liquid.
The Board start, no chime is coming, fan run for few seconds, than stopp for one second and than turn again without stop.
I clean it wit Isopropanol but without succes.
Schematics, boardview, jbc Iron solder and JBC Hotair stations are avaiable, also a Microscope.
Can anybody help me please?
Thanks a lot!!!
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Old Today, 09:55 AM   #2870
ZZZAC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yako76 View Post
Dear Specialists,
I got a Logicboard with spilled liquid.
The Board start, no chime is coming, fan run for few seconds, than stopp for one second and than turn again without stop.
I clean it wit Isopropanol but without succes.
Schematics, boardview, jbc Iron solder and JBC Hotair stations are avaiable, also a Microscope.
Can anybody help me please?
Thanks a lot!!!
It sounds like it could be missing a power rail
First check all the power rails in the power block diagram that are used to generate all sys pgood.
let us know what you find

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by AliveAndKicking View Post
If I remove the ram and there are no beeps that would suggest that the system isint reaching post , right?
Yes it suggests a pre post failure
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Old Today, 04:04 PM   #2871
tiagobaracho
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you guys have the board view MacBook Air A1370 820-2796-a ?
I have the schematics... needing the boardview...
thanks
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