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Old Mar 26, 2013, 09:57 AM   #1
LEOMODE
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So will Apple officially release 7970?

Or just let Sapphire take all the money with their 7950?

I'm guessing 7970 with new 8 pin included in new 2013 Mac Pro....Or 7970 with 6 pins still FTW!

What are your thoughts?
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Old Mar 26, 2013, 10:00 AM   #2
GermanyChris
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My thoughts are they'll go nVidia like the rest of the Mac Line
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Old Mar 26, 2013, 10:01 AM   #3
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My thoughts are they'll go nVidia like the rest of the Mac Line
You mean 670 or 680?
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Old Mar 26, 2013, 10:02 AM   #4
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My guess is a 660..maybe a BTO 670.
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Old Mar 26, 2013, 10:26 AM   #5
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My guess is a 660..maybe a BTO 670.
Why build 79xx support into 10.8.3 in the first place? I find that weird since I agree that Nvidia seemed to have the inside track.
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Old Mar 26, 2013, 10:30 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanyChris View Post
My guess is a 660..maybe a BTO 670.
Why not 680/690?
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Old Mar 26, 2013, 11:15 AM   #7
GermanyChris
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Why not 680/690?
never been highend cards in the MP

----------

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Originally Posted by ssls6 View Post
Why build 79xx support into 10.8.3 in the first place? I find that weird since I agree that Nvidia seemed to have the inside track.
options, leverage
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Old Mar 26, 2013, 11:22 AM   #8
goMac
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Why build 79xx support into 10.8.3 in the first place? I find that weird since I agree that Nvidia seemed to have the inside track.
Because AMD controls the drivers and they wanted to do it. Probably to get a beachhead against NVidia. If AMD isn't getting into the next Mac Pros, they'll want a route to get cards into the Mac Pro.

Nothing to do with Apple.
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Old Mar 26, 2013, 12:14 PM   #9
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I think were going to see the 7850 and the 7950 from ATI based on a hunch.

The K5000 just launched for Mac, but its already "older" tech from Nvidia, don't know what the massive announce and 8 month delay was (they announced with no drivers?).

I hope we see a 670 from Nvidia also, and the W7000 from ATI (granted there has only ever been workstation cards from nivida - quadro, no firegl's before from ATI in an apple product.

Anyways I'd love to see the ATI W7000 supported.
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Old Mar 27, 2013, 11:02 AM   #10
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I think were going to see the 7850 and the 7950 from ATI based on a hunch.

The K5000 just launched for Mac, but its already "older" tech from Nvidia, don't know what the massive announce and 8 month delay was (they announced with no drivers?).

I hope we see a 670 from Nvidia also, and the W7000 from ATI (granted there has only ever been workstation cards from nivida - quadro, no firegl's before from ATI in an apple product.

Anyways I'd love to see the ATI W7000 supported.
Did you notice how both AMD and NVIDIA released cards right after 10.8.3 was shipped? Perhaps there's a correlation there? I think everyone was waiting for 10.8.3 to be shipped since it had the necessary support at the OS level, especially support for OpenCL acceleration out of the box (since 10.8.2 still had the 2GB limit).

I'm pretty sure the basic support for cards like the GTX 680 was available when they announced the Quadro K5000, there might not have been specific device IDs in the drivers but the core stuff seemed to be there. I know I've been running a GTX 680 card for a very long time now.
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Old Mar 27, 2013, 01:53 PM   #11
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If Apple announces something at NAB, then the GTX 670 and GTX 680 variations seem to make the most sense as the upgrade options based on what's currently available, prices, and driver support. If we're waiting until WWDC, then maybe we'll see a few additional options.

Adobe is teasing features for what would be After Effects CS6.5 and they should be demoing them at NAB. I'd expect to see more cards being added directly to their support list for CS6.5. Curious if they'll start to add support for the PC variants when running in OS X 10.8.3+ now that support is really baked in. I think they'd benefit from doing so instead of the "hack" option that not everyone knows about...

Either way, the official upgrades for a BTO workstation will probably be 2-3 max - choice fatigue has been extremely limited on the newest offerings and I don't see that changing anytime soon. (Keeps costs down overall on Apple's end and streamlines their process a bit more by doing that.)
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Old Mar 27, 2013, 03:20 PM   #12
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If Apple announces something at NAB, then the GTX 670 and GTX 680 variations seem to make the most sense as the upgrade options based on what's currently available, prices, and driver support.
I don't understand how one makes more sense than the other based on those three criteria. AMD and Nvidia cards are both widely available, they both cost roughly the same for similar performance, and drivers are included in OS X for the latest generation of cards from both of them.
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Old Mar 27, 2013, 05:32 PM   #13
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...., and drivers are included in OS X for the latest generation of cards from both of them.
He may be making implications along the lines that the drivers for the iMac's 675MX and 680MX are based on same basic GK104 core infrastructure (only distinctly more underclocked ) as the desktop versions of the cards.

Plus the later stated focus on adobe video products which have a higher CUDA tie-in.
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Old Mar 27, 2013, 05:53 PM   #14
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I would almost predict Nvidia as the next card simply because AMD was the last pick and Apple seems to jump back and forth between the two:

Baseline MP builds:
2006-2007 GeForce 7300 GT
2008 Radeon HD 2600 XT
2009 GeForce GT 120
2010-2012 Radeon HD 5770

CUDA support certainly isn't a factor in that list. The only thing I get out of their history is that Apple doesn't want to get locked into a single vendor. Apple is probably keeping both in the game in order to have them bid against each other for volume orders.
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Old Mar 27, 2013, 06:38 PM   #15
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I would almost predict Nvidia as the next card simply because AMD was the last pick and Apple seems to jump back and forth between the two:
It is hard to tell until Apple releases but was the 2013 Mac Pro done inside the scope of 2012 designs or 2013 designs. In 2012 designs (done somewhat in 2011), Nvidia "won". The last Mac Pro design win for a GPU card, AMD in 2010. Depends which scope looking at Mac or just Mac Pro.


Quote:
Baseline MP builds:
2006-2007 GeForce 7300 GT
2008 Radeon HD 2600 XT
2009 GeForce GT 120
While the entry level card, Apple did have a line up in these three that didn't include of of the "other".

Quote:
2010-2012 Radeon HD 5770
This is only point where they went totally exclusionary. A Quadro card showed up in 2011 but never part of the BTO mix. The exclusionary thing is somewhat of an outlier. Whether it is now the "norm" is hard to tell because they haven't done anything since then. It could have simply been an artifact of putting the Mac Pro R&D efforts into cryogenic storage. By all appearances that's effectively what they did.


Quote:
CUDA support certainly isn't a factor in that list.
I know but it is almost always lurking under the covers in contexts were folks are highly focused on video processing with Adobe products.


Quote:
The only thing I get out of their history is that Apple doesn't want to get locked into a single vendor. Apple is probably keeping both in the game in order to have them bid against each other for volume orders.
I also don't think Apple is out to overly support CUDA and Nvidia's proprietary solutions either. ( one of the initiators of OpenCL for one ).
However, Apple is rather Scrooge McDuck. If they can squeeze more volume out of using Nvidia and it fits the design parameters they are generally looking for "power efficient" GPUs then there is a chance Nvidia may go Nvidia again across the whole line up that are getting changes. AMD GCN trended a bit toward boosting power to gain performance on this iteration.

I think Apple does want to keep both in the game but to play "every other" the two can't get complacent and think Apple has to pick them because it is their turn. If Apple is pushing certain parameters and they don't deliver they give it to them just because "not the other guy". I'm strongly suspect Apple gives AMD a shot at CPUs each round too, but they never deliver on a competitive basis so don't get the nod. But they do wan to be able to go to Intel and said ... if you screw up we're walking.



To keep them both in the game I suspect Apple would split between the embedded GPU and the one that fits in the PCI-e card slot. For example,

AMD 8750M 2GB embedded and a Nvidia card ( 660) as the entry level default.

or

Nvidia 650M 2GB embedded and a AMD card ( 7870 ) as the entry level default


The 8650M because nominally designed for x8 PCI-e v3.0 connection and generally keeping AMD in the game. The 650M (or slight bump update later this year) because used across multiple products which would lead to cheaper unit costs on volume.

That would put Apple back in the mode of not being exclusionary. They probably would sell at different volumes (especially if lower cost BTO config were can get only embedded GPU) but it keeps both players in the game on each round.
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Old Mar 27, 2013, 06:58 PM   #16
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He may be making implications along the lines that the drivers for the iMac's 675MX and 680MX are based on same basic GK104 core infrastructure (only distinctly more underclocked ) as the desktop versions of the cards.
Seems like across the board new Macs with a GPU that isn't Intel are using Nvidia 6XX bases in some form. Thinking they stick with the 670/680 series for a Mac Pro doesn't seem like that far of a stretch...
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Old Mar 27, 2013, 07:26 PM   #17
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Seems like across the board new Macs with a GPU that isn't Intel are using Nvidia 6XX bases in some form.
They did for the 2012 Macs. It is 2013 and not as clear Nvidia will win across the line up again. Probably better than 50/50 though because both Nvidia and AMD seem to be stalled on arch improvements and using approximately the same process tech, if not the exact same fab equipment, so the energy/price/performance gaps of 2011-2012 are largely the same as 2012-2013.

For desktop GPUs both AMD and Nvidia are largely doing just name rebadges this year. Minor tweaks and changes to the OEM product numbers like something happened (but not really ).
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Old Mar 27, 2013, 10:04 PM   #18
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One reason to doubt it will be Nvidia only in short term.

I can't believe nobody has made a fuss about this, but Apple just recently put the screws to BMD.

If they wanted Resolve Lite on the App Store they had to REMOVE CUDA support and make the App OpenCl ONLY.

So 9.1.2 on the App store is a watered down weakling compared to 9.1.1 from BMD site.

They ARE Big Brother. And they certainly don't want Apps that make Nvidia cards required, so out with the baseball bat.
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Old Mar 27, 2013, 11:55 PM   #19
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I can't believe nobody has made a fuss about this, but Apple just recently put the screws to BMD.

If they wanted Resolve Lite on the App Store they had to REMOVE CUDA support and make the App OpenCl ONLY.

So 9.1.2 on the App store is a watered down weakling compared to 9.1.1 from BMD site.

They ARE Big Brother. And they certainly don't want Apps that make Nvidia cards required, so out with the baseball bat.
Quote:
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2.14 Apps that use deprecated or optionally installed technologies (e.g., Java, Rosetta) will be rejected
That's always been the rule. This is not new, or a surprise.

If they don't like it, they can distribute outside the app store.
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