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Old Jun 17, 2013, 10:25 AM   #101
milo
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...wanted to make sure everyone knew it was X% faster than 2013 Camaro...
You have totally missed the point. That's not what this demo was for at all. Regardless, it's still obvious that the machine is blazing fast for this sort of thing - lack of comparison to other hardware doesn't change the fact that this demo is incredibly impressive in terms of both the software and hardware.

This machine isn't shipping until later in the year and hasn't had a full announcement. Doing comparative benchmarks this early just wouldn't make sense. Those will happen when it's ready for release, and there will be plenty of them.
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Old Jun 17, 2013, 12:14 PM   #102
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuAsOyzawNY

Just found it here if people prefer youtube.
Apple issues copyright take down notice to youtube in 10, 9, 8, 7, .......
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 02:51 PM   #103
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This.

I don't think a majority of the people who were unimpressed realized what exactly they were looking at and how much information was being hauled around the screen.
Exactly. Nail on the head. I think a big point so many of the 'nay'sayers speaking out against the design of the new MacPro are missing the forest for or through the trees....or vice versa...however that saying goes

The synergy between the new Xeon procs, fast 'highways' between the CPU and memory/mem control and the GPU's lanes. As well as the ultra fast 1.25GB/sec PCIe storage system....as well (and maybe ultimately moreso important) the refinements and updates that come along with OSx Mavericks....that's the differentiating factor. That's where designers, creative (film/video, audio production, design and photography, et al) developers will ultimately see the BIG picture and along with...the 'speed' increase. I own a 2009 Nahalem MacPro that still suits me well...and has made its 'price@purchase' back ten fold...much more if I detailed it out. This machine's beta benchmarks...both hard and software floating around on a circa 2002 based 'free' 32 bit benchmarking site...and the outspoken bozos evangelizing its death before its birth is hard to read. It's both amazing and, in fact...asinine some are so ignorant to dismiss so quickly such an amazing piece of gear. If it's not you....that's cool! If working in CAD, Maya, FCP...and I'm sure if this machine takes off, Adobe will finally come along for the OpenCL ride too....after all, it's software they sell...or any of the other pleothera of businesses that require this kind of computing....I think most will be incredibly excited. For us...it'll transform our business...as we routinely travel with three 2009 MacPros in flight cases for production work...70% audio, 30% video....all over the state of Alaska. I know not everyone travels with a Mac Pro...but we do, along with a dozen monitors. Size matters to us, as does power. The rMBPs have been awesome, but these new Xeon systems....for us, along with their power, speed and high end data transfer is absolute HUGE!

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...

So in reality, it was software that doesn't exist yet running on a computer that doesn't exist yet either.

So what was purpose? It was one of the better Infomercials I've seen. The smiling audience shills were even better than the "MagicJack" spots I've seen.
MacVidCards,

You're in EVERY Current Mac Pro thread. Every one of 'em spewing the same BS. We get it. You don't care for it. You're a high end post production monster in Hollywood...yada, yada. Why continue? If you were the expert you imply that you are, you're well aware of the limitations current generation soft/hardware has on drawing, rendering, coloring, transcoding....etc. For animation experts that have worked on Mari to be that amazed at hardware that WILL be released on software that IS being released (albeit both in beta)...how in the world can you not be the least bit impressed....in fact, how in the WORLD can you be so 'un' impressed? You're leading THAT charge in several threads currently and I don't get it. If everyone that's been waiting on the new Mac Pro does indeed pick one up...will it have a catastrophic effect on your current GPU sales for the 'old' Mac Pro? If that's the case....you shouldn't worry as that user base will only continue to grow as old MP owners upgrade and pass down the older generation....to folks and 'kids' looking to turn these into super gaming rigs instead of 'work stations'....don't you think?
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 03:54 PM   #104
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This thread is about a bat graph with only 1 bar in it. "The new Mac Pro is THIS fast!!! " proving nothing.

Did you have a question?
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 04:31 PM   #105
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If you were the expert you imply that you are, you're well aware of the limitations current generation soft/hardware has on drawing, rendering, coloring, transcoding....etc. For animation experts that have worked on Mari to be that amazed at hardware that WILL be released on software that IS being released (albeit both in beta)...how in the world can you not be the least bit impressed....in fact, how in the WORLD can you be so 'un' impressed?
The demo was impressive, but as others have pointed out, it was a software demo. And yes, they were impressed with how it ran on the new Mac Pro, but there's a reason why they claimed it was the best "out of the box" performance they've seen. And unfortunately the out of the box performance is all you're going to get out of the new Mac Pro.

And I'm not sure what limitations you're referring to when you're talking about current hardware/software. The new Mac Pro hasn't solved any "limitations" I'm aware of. 16 core machines have been available in the PC world for over a year now, pcie SSDs aren't new, and the GPUs are current as well.

Apple has fit a lot of power in a very compact space, and that is truly impressive. But let's not pretend they've broken any barriers current hardware was limited behind.

And for what it's worth I'm not anti-new Mac Pro at all. I'll be undecided on it until we see some real world pricing and use. But the hyperbole surrounding this thing is just as annoying as the constant doom and gloom from the opposite camp.
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 06:12 PM   #106
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proving nothing.
I'm not sure what you expected this demo to "prove". They haven't announced specs for the machine, and they never said the demo was going to be about benchmarking.

And it's hard to take your "concern" seriously considering what you do for a living. You're a vendor who sells video cards - you're really in a position to give an opinion about how this machine actually is? Hard to believe there's no bias there considering you're likely mad that this box is going to hurt your sales.
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 06:45 PM   #107
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I'm not sure what you expected this demo to "prove". They haven't announced specs for the machine, and they never said the demo was going to be about benchmarking.

And it's hard to take your "concern" seriously considering what you do for a living. You're a vendor who sells video cards - you're really in a position to give an opinion about how this machine actually is? Hard to believe there's no bias there considering you're likely mad that this box is going to hurt your sales.
At least my viewpoint is easy to understand and out in open.

All of the newbie "Mac Pro is the FUTURE of ALL COMPUTUING !!! OMG !!!" posters are veiling their motives. Apple must have upped shill pay since the doo doo is deeper than usual.

And using my Camaro analogy, if Mario Andretti drove it once around a race track and posted a Youtube of smoking tires and sideways "drifting" turns, then said "It's the fastest car I have driven on this track that came from a factory in Detroit", wouldn't you wonder why he phrased it that way and why Chevrolet didn't have the balls to include his son in a 2012 trying hard to keep up during the racetrack video? Critical thought is useful.
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 06:48 PM   #108
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I'm not sure what you expected this demo to "prove". They haven't announced specs for the machine, and they never said the demo was going to be about benchmarking.

And it's hard to take your "concern" seriously considering what you do for a living. You're a vendor who sells video cards - you're really in a position to give an opinion about how this machine actually is? Hard to believe there's no bias there considering you're likely mad that this box is going to hurt your sales.
No it's not especially given the "sneak Peal"
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 06:53 PM   #109
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And using my Camaro analogy, if Mario Andretti drove it once around a race track and posted a Youtube of smoking tires and sideways "drifting" turns, then said "It's the fastest car I have driven on this track that came from a factory in Detroit", wouldn't you wonder why he phrased it that way and why Chevrolet didn't have the balls to include his son in a 2012 trying hard to keep up during the racetrack video? Critical thought is useful.
Because that's not what the demo was. It was a private, closed door demo.

Are you seriously suggesting the Mac Pro will never ever be benchmarked?
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 10:40 AM   #110
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At least my viewpoint is easy to understand and out in open.
You do have a VENDOR badge, but unless someone clicks over to your profile, the fact that you sell PCI cards for a living is hardly out in the open. Frankly it's a conflict of interest and questionable that you're constantly bashing the new MP when you have a financial interest in selling gear for the previous one.

And if you're going to make accusations of "newbie shills", you should name names, and have some facts to back up those accusations.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 11:18 AM   #111
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You do have a VENDOR badge, but unless someone clicks over to your profile, the fact that you sell PCI cards for a living is hardly out in the open. Frankly it's a conflict of interest and questionable that you're constantly bashing the new MP when you have a financial interest in selling gear for the previous one.

And if you're going to make accusations of "newbie shills", you should name names, and have some facts to back up those accusations.
Hasn't it occurred to you that his business "selling gear for the previous one" may indeed see a spike from fence-sitters who ultimately decide to pass on the trashcan and invest in a lightly-used 2010+ model ??

It's not as if all previous year Mac Pros are going to suddenly combust when the iTrashcan hits the market.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 11:26 AM   #112
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You do have a VENDOR badge, but unless someone clicks over to your profile, the fact that you sell PCI cards for a living is hardly out in the open.
His username isn't enough of a hint? Um...

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Frankly it's a conflict of interest and questionable that you're constantly bashing the new MP when you have a financial interest in selling gear for the previous one.
You should probably pay more attention to all of the information he's provided to the forums (here and elsewhere) before making such a statement. In a lot of cases, his experience and expertise is shared at precisely no charge whatsoever.

And his primary source of income isn't selling video cards for Macs. He'll be OK even if his side business dries up tomorrow. But that's not going to happen.

His concern regarding the new Pro is shared by many of us and is summarized basically by: a lack in flexible, speedy expansion.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 12:01 PM   #113
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Those guys over at Pixar must not be "pros" if you go by the "standard" set on this forum. LOL.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 12:08 PM   #114
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Hasn't it occurred to you that his business "selling gear for the previous one" may indeed see a spike from fence-sitters who ultimately decide to pass on the trashcan and invest in a lightly-used 2010+ model ??

It's not as if all previous year Mac Pros are going to suddenly combust when the iTrashcan hits the market.
That's true, but that'll only propel him for another year or two. Eventually, a new GPU won't be enough to keep an old Mac Pro useful, and his customers will have to move on to a new Mac Pro or a PC workstation.

A spike would only be temporary. Long term it isn't exactly a great position.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 02:52 PM   #115
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You should probably pay more attention to all of the information he's provided to the forums (here and elsewhere) before making such a statement.
In fact, I clicked over and looked at his other posts, and seeing that all the recent ones have been whining about the MP is the reason I made that statement. Maybe he has made useful posts in the past but at this point it's borderline trolling.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 02:58 PM   #116
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He's not borderline trolling, and this isn't the only forum he posts in..
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 03:05 PM   #117
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He's not borderline trolling, and this isn't the only forum he posts in..
I get that he has strong feelings on this because his customers have strong feelings on this, but...

We don't know that the Mac Pro does not have upgradable GPUs. My hunch is that it will, but the upgrade will have to be performed by Apple.

This is the sort of thing that he would have a mutual interest in. A Mac Pro with upgradable GPUs would be a good solution for users but not a good solution for him. I think that's where things get a little iffy. The argument would become that it's ok to give him a $100 overhead for flashing the card, but Apple's overhead becomes unacceptable.

To also be fair, if Apple announced a Mac Pro with PCIe slots, it probably would have supported GOP EFI cards and hurt his business as well.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 03:19 PM   #118
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I really donít thing heís worried so much about not using his soldiering skills to create video cards for a really small market I think he just mad like many of us and heís feels no need to hold is tongue.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 05:41 PM   #119
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To also be fair, if Apple announced a Mac Pro with PCIe slots, it probably would have supported GOP EFI cards and hurt his business as well.
Dave is certainly capable of voicing his own opinions and concerns, but here's my take on it after reading the things he's posted here: his side business of providing PCI-E video cards for Macs was born out of necessity. It was something he needed to do so that he could complete work for his real job. He took that skill set and opened a small business on the side to make some extra cash.

I suspect he'd be just as happy as the rest of us if a new Pro appeared with PCI-E slots and supported GOP EFI cards.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 07:09 PM   #120
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Exactly.

don't you think?
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 07:13 PM   #121
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Anyone know if we can watch the pixar demo with the Mac Pro?

We need to come up with a name for this thing like how the Macbook Pro Retina is rmbp...
MMP - Mac Mini Pro.

This new machine has more in common with a Mac Mini than the status quo Mac Pro. I find no shame in calling it what it is more about and probably will get one if the price is right.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 09:43 PM   #122
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The demo was impressive, but as others have pointed out, it was a software demo. And yes, they were impressed with how it ran on the new Mac Pro, but there's a reason why they claimed it was the best "out of the box" performance they've seen. And unfortunately the out of the box performance is all you're going to get out of the new Mac Pro.

And I'm not sure what limitations you're referring to when you're talking about current hardware/software. The new Mac Pro hasn't solved any "limitations" I'm aware of. 16 core machines have been available in the PC world for over a year now, pcie SSDs aren't new, and the GPUs are current as well.

Apple has fit a lot of power in a very compact space, and that is truly impressive. But let's not pretend they've broken any barriers current hardware was limited behind.

And for what it's worth I'm not anti-new Mac Pro at all. I'll be undecided on it until we see some real world pricing and use. But the hyperbole surrounding this thing is just as annoying as the constant doom and gloom from the opposite camp.
I think we're saying the same thing? However...while I wasn't attempting to imply Apple was re-inventing the computing platform...Dell and HP, the two leaders in the 'Enterprise' industry---that this Mac Pro is squarely aimed at (I think many of the complaints relevant to the MP are folks that were looking for an incredible gaming machine)...have not, to this date...nor my knowledge set up a system for ordering a machine with PCIe-SS options....only 2.5" SSDs in slots 1,2,3 and 4....as well, they are currently only offering 6 and 8 core configurations...the 8 core being the E5-2665 with a HUGE premium, no choice for High End 3d cards in 'Fire Pro'...only nVidia's Quadro. Set up with a pair of 6GB RAM Quadros, the 8 core and (it, too, only has 4 DIMMS), 64GB of RAM, this is a $7500 machine...with ONE 256ssd, 2.5"---probably in the order of 400.400 read/write. This is the Precision T3600, one of their higher end offerings....but certainly lacking ThunderBolt...and a helluva lot larger. I don't mean to be posting hyperbole...but come on!!!

I'm just not sure why namely a half dozen folks around here are so (un)impressed....that's all. I'm impressed. I'm 42 and have been blessed to have grown up through the years with the early day Apple IIe and Commodore 64s...and see what present day has brought us. I've got the power of the first dozen computers I owned....collectively, in my pocket. My iPhone 5 impresses me every time I use...perhaps, it's me...and I'm too easily impressed

Again...my 15" rMBP I bought last summer still brings a smile to my face each time I power it up. Color me blind....as I'm a sucker for these products Apple has been providing lately...including the iPads which have also transformed my business. Each time Apple has claimed 2x power increases on my iPhone or iPad from the previous generation....they've delivered. When they told me the speed would double on the SSD from 2011 to 2012, they did...same in 2013. Same as my rMBP's speed...it's double the performance of my 2011 Air. My '5' is 'twice' as fast as my '4s'

Guess that's my point....Apple HAS delivered. I'm not going to assume some quick, free, old CPU test run @ 32bits be the end all, be all for this new MP. "Out of the Box"....I guess I'm not sure what you're implying. After all...it's the third party, ThunderBolt gang that needs to hop the train, and in that case....the possibilities are limitless. Especially in comparison with having only 4 PCI slots and new Graphics cards that take up to slots in one 'sitting'

Again...sorry, wasn't trying to spew 'hyperbole'....I'm just. Impressed.

j
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Old Jun 26, 2013, 01:12 AM   #123
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It's ok to be impressed. I'm impressed, after all, but not enough to want one yet. I've gained a bit more respect for it in the last couple days, but what keeps me from climbing a mountain with a bullhorn and screaming "WOW..." is that my current old 2009 isn't that far behind it, and I *still* have some tricks and options left to keep expanding the reliable old thing.

I am hoping the Mac Pro after this new one, if they decide to keep going with it, will be even better. Maybe Thunderbolt will really be popular and a lot cheaper by then, too. For me, this is not a big enough jump yet.
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Old Jun 26, 2013, 02:57 PM   #124
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...
We don't know that the Mac Pro does not have upgradable GPUs. My hunch is that it will, but the upgrade will have to be performed by Apple.
When has Apple does this for the current Mac Pro CPUs ?

This is a service they are going to roll out to the Genius shops in the Mall. Replaced cracked iPhone screens ( $100 ) and $2000 CPU upgrades. Not a very likely combination. It did not and has not happened.

Flipping GPU cards is likely in the same boat as the CPU has been for last 6 years. Couple that to perhaps not passing the embedded GPU sniff test for Thunderbolt and doesn't seem likely.

I guess like fixing cracking iPhone screens the real question of how much demand there is for this. Just how completely decoupled from CPU improvements are from GPU improvement. Sure there are corner cases for each subgroup but are most users typically due for upgrades on both around the same time. Chasing 10% (corner cases ) of 1% (Mac Pro market) isn't likely going to lead to long term success for the Mac Pro.


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To also be fair, if Apple announced a Mac Pro with PCIe slots, it probably would have supported GOP EFI cards and hurt his business as well.
Not as quickly.
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Old Jun 26, 2013, 03:01 PM   #125
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The GPUs look like they may be a new form factor. If that's the case, we can't make any assumptions based on past machines.
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