Go Back   MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Aug 16, 2013, 05:54 PM   #551
flat five
macrumors 68020
 
flat five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: newyorkcity
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0x0x0x0 View Post
Erm, have you looked at their site recently, and is it actually true?!. IB, for one, is significantly faster and more capable that TB...
yes i have and seriously- who cares..
flat five is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 17, 2013, 08:20 AM   #552
0x0x0x0
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Down in the Ether, looking at your bits...
Quote:
Originally Posted by subsonix View Post
The reason that I mentioned surrounding details regarding intel's work in silicon photonics was to show that it has many additional benefits apart from cost (such as speed and size), but cost is an important factor even for enterprise customers.
First, we were talking about Corning, not Intel, maybe the former has a licensing agreement with the latter, I don't know... Secondly, re. the 100GbE- not likely to happen any time soon- put two 10GbE controllers into you machine and watch the CPU usage go up just trying to keep those controllers busy (and I don't mean the CPU doing things that the modern ethernet controllers do)- there's going to have to be a massive increase in CPU productivity before we go into 100GbE... Thirdly, while enterprises do care about costs, they also care about getting the job done- nobody is going to sit around twiddling their thumbs waiting for something to maybe be released tomorrow. In any case, we're straying from what started this sub-thread: Corning's Thunderbolt fibre cable, which I still consider to be vapourware.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subsonix View Post
What if you have several InfiniBand cards, which is not uncommon.
That's exactly what I said in the post- you call it a card, I call it a controller, no matter the name, when they span multiple slots, the aggregate bandwidth comes from "talking" IB, not "talking" PCIe- the lanes in different slots don't magically add up to pretend to be lanes on the same slot- it's the IB that's doing the aggregation and not PCIe, just like the ethernet controllers in the case of 802.1ax.

For avoidance of doubt, I run machines with 10GbE controllers and aggregated IB controllers, so have experience in what I'm talking about... Incidentally, copper links between 10GbE or IB controllers use less power (read: cost less to run) than fibre...


----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by flat five View Post
yes i have and seriously- who cares..
Erm, let's cast back...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0x0x0x0 View Post
that particular saying has been pulled by Apple from the MP website as it's patently a lie (at least it's not on the MP website that I'm looking at right now)...
Quote:
Originally Posted by flat five View Post
lol.. where do you come up with this stuff?

You obviously do!

Last edited by 0x0x0x0; Aug 17, 2013 at 08:29 AM.
0x0x0x0 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 17, 2013, 10:48 AM   #553
flat five
macrumors 68020
 
flat five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: newyorkcity
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0x0x0x0 View Post
You obviously do!
i meant- who cares if IB is faster than TB.. they're entirely different markets/uses/applications.

i'm sure we'll eventually see a slew of PC peripheral components which TB2 is incapable of handling.. but for now, thunderbolt2 is more than adequate for what people are going to be plugging in..
maybe you can find 2-3 oddball scenarios in which someone may actually need more throughput but so what.. it doesn't matter for the vast majority of people this new computer is aimed at.
flat five is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 17, 2013, 12:05 PM   #554
subsonix
macrumors 68040
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0x0x0x0 View Post
First, we were talking about Corning, not Intel, maybe the former has a licensing agreement with the latter, I don't know... Secondly, re. the 100GbE- not likely to happen any time soon- put two 10GbE controllers into you machine and watch the CPU usage go up just trying to keep those controllers busy
Why do you care what brand the cable is? Your claim was that there is no need for newer optical solutions, what we got is enough.

The 100GbE was mentioned by the Sun Microsystems co-founder, it was at the Open Compute Summit you know, so, large deployments..


Quote:
Originally Posted by 0x0x0x0 View Post
That's exactly what I said in the post- you call it a card, I call it a controller, no matter the name, when they span multiple slots, the aggregate bandwidth comes from "talking" IB, not "talking" PCIe- the lanes in different slots don't magically add up to pretend to be lanes on the same slot- it's the IB that's doing the aggregation and not PCIe, just like the ethernet controllers in the case of 802.1ax.
The controllers can be on a single card if it's a dual socket model. That's not necessarily the same as two individual cards, there the aggregation must happen after the card since they are physically separate.
subsonix is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 17, 2013, 08:07 PM   #555
0x0x0x0
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Down in the Ether, looking at your bits...
Quote:
Originally Posted by flat five View Post
i meant- who cares if IB is faster than TB.. they're entirely different markets/uses/applications.

i'm sure we'll eventually see a slew of PC peripheral components which TB2 is incapable of handling.. but for now, thunderbolt2 is more than adequate for what people are going to be plugging in..
maybe you can find 2-3 oddball scenarios in which someone may actually need more throughput but so what.. it doesn't matter for the vast majority of people this new computer is aimed at.
You quoted Apple as saying:

Quote:
Thunderbolt is the fastest, most versatile I/O technology there is.
I said it was a patent lie... Neither Apple not you added adjectives nor qualifiers to that statement. The statement was and is a lie as it stood. End of story- stop trying to wriggle out of it!

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by subsonix View Post
Why do you care what brand the cable is? Your claim was that there is no need for newer optical solutions, what we got is enough.
Because we were talking about a specific cable from a specific manufacturer! End of!

Quote:
Originally Posted by subsonix View Post
The 100GbE was mentioned by the Sun Microsystems co-founder, it was at the Open Compute Summit you know, so, large deployments..
So? Going back to the large deployments: solving problems of today today, not waiting in vain for some tech in the very distant future... End of discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subsonix View Post
The controllers can be on a single card if it's a dual socket model. That's not necessarily the same as two individual cards, there the aggregation must happen after the card since they are physically separate.
I don't see how you're failing to understand such a trivial proposition: it is the InfiniBand protocol that is doing the aggregation regardless whether there are two IB chips on the same card in the same socket, or on different cards in different sockets. InfiniBand and PCIe are separate things sitting at separate layers, just like ethernet and PHY. IT is the IB software which does the aggregation couldn't care less about what sockets and what lanes are feeding it, so long as there's data to aggregate, PCIe protocol (yup, PCIe data is packetised!) wouldn't have a clue how to aggregate things coming to it from the upper, IB, layer!..
0x0x0x0 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 17, 2013, 08:18 PM   #556
flat five
macrumors 68020
 
flat five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: newyorkcity
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0x0x0x0 View Post
You quoted Apple as saying:



I said it was a patent lie... Neither Apple not you added adjectives nor qualifiers to that statement. The statement was and is a lie as it stood. End of story- stop trying to wriggle out of it![COLOR="#808080"]
what am i wriggling out of?

you said apple removed the saying from their website (which they did not).. then go on to give a reason why they removed it...

as in you stated a non-fact then completely created a blatant lie out of thin air and stated it as another fact..

it's nuts.

just like it's nuts that you're going to fail to recognize any of what's going on here..
but hey-- this isn't my first pony ride.. i know people like you in real life and i know it's basically impossible for you to recognize any questionable qualities about yourself..
flat five is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 17, 2013, 08:27 PM   #557
AppleFan1984
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: May 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by TennisandMusic View Post
Dude, are you kidding? You think there is NO difference between plugging an internal hard drive directly to a mobo vs having to buy an external thunderbolt chassis and cable? Have you looked at prices? It costs about 25 cents to hook up an internal hard drive via a SATA cable and the included power supply hookup.

How much is JUST a thunderbolt cable?
Meanwhile, Thunderbolt is looking more and more like my G4's DVD-RAM drive, once touted as the future:

Superspeed USB 3.1 Announced, Could Bring the End of Thunderbolt
http://www.maclife.com/article/news/...nd_thunderbolt
AppleFan1984 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 17, 2013, 09:42 PM   #558
subsonix
macrumors 68040
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0x0x0x0 View Post
Because we were talking about a specific cable from a specific manufacturer! End of!
And by "we" you do not refer to you and I. Our discussion specifically evolved around the need for new optical solutions, your point was: it's not necessary. But let's leave it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0x0x0x0 View Post
I don't see how you're failing to understand such a trivial proposition: it is the InfiniBand protocol that is doing the aggregation regardless whether there are two IB chips on the same card in the same socket, or on different cards in different sockets.
No need for the passive aggressive tone dude, if implemented on a single card it can be made transparent from the host, appearing as "one" x8 link. Delegating this job to the driver at that speed will tax the CPU and also make the whole concoction vulnerable to timing issues depending on what your computer is up to apart from reassembling data from two sources.

PCIe provides services for the physical layer, which includes width and lane mapping, clock tuning and alignment.
subsonix is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 18, 2013, 09:26 AM   #559
0x0x0x0
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Down in the Ether, looking at your bits...
Quote:
Originally Posted by flat five View Post
what am i wriggling out of?

you said apple removed the saying from their website (which they did not).. then go on to give a reason why they removed it...
Tell me what "page" of the Mac Pro promo site it's on then...
0x0x0x0 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 18, 2013, 10:07 AM   #560
flat five
macrumors 68020
 
flat five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: newyorkcity
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0x0x0x0 View Post
Tell me what "page" of the Mac Pro promo site it's on then...
the first sentence of the 'thunderbolt 2' section
flat five is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Did Steve Jobs actually design products like MacBooks, iPhones and tablets? The Clark Community Discussion 24 Jul 14, 2014 10:45 PM
Eddy Cue: Steve Jobs Would Be 'Extremely Proud' of Apple's Current and Future Products MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 113 Jun 3, 2014 04:55 PM
Steve Wozniak and Atari Founder Nolan Bushnell Recall Steve Jobs and Early Apple Memories Together MacRumors Mac Blog Discussion 69 Sep 30, 2013 03:42 PM
Why are mockups of rumored products considered front page news? Rogifan Site and Forum Feedback 6 Jul 2, 2013 06:28 PM
After Steve is gone, do you feel less and less enthusiastic about Apple's products? hajime Apple, Industry and Internet Discussion 33 May 24, 2013 07:27 AM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:09 PM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC