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Old Oct 5, 2013, 11:03 AM   #201
citizenzen
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You don't know what an undercover cop is do you. It means they are under cover and can't announce they are a cop. So by him pulling his service weapon and starting to shoot would put his life in danger.
He did however appear on national news just a few days later.

I am curious why a life-threatening situation isn't enough to blow his cover, when he was quite willing to do so just a short time later when no one's life was at stake.
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Old Oct 5, 2013, 11:06 AM   #202
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He did however appear on national news just a few days later.

I am curious why a life-threatening situation isn't enough to blow his cover, when he was quite willing to do so just a short time later when no one's life was at stake.
Do we know if he was undercover or off duty. There is a difference. And if he was undercover with this group, (and now there are reports that there might have been at least 5 cops there,) are they trying to break up this gang?
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Old Oct 5, 2013, 11:09 AM   #203
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What makes you think the cop was even carrying a weapon? If he is undercover, there is a good chance he wasn't armed.
It was said that ride wasn't part of any undercover work. He was just riding with them on his free will. Off duty cops are known to carry most of the time. Also was stated that there were more cops riding within that group.

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Originally Posted by likemyorbs View Post
You're still attempting to antagonize the majority of people who disagree with you. You clearly posted that because you were out of arguments and your grasping of straws is obvious. If that undercover cop shot at the SUV driver after the SUV driver shot the bikers in self defense, the cop would be charged. But you know what? None of this is even relevant because there was no gun involved. So I'm not sure what your point even is. At this point your desperacy is showing.
How many times do you need to make it clear that you don't agree with me? Your becoming obsessive about arguing every one of my posts. I get it ... You don't agree. Now have a nice day.
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Old Oct 5, 2013, 11:24 AM   #204
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Do we know if he was undercover or off duty. There is a difference. And if he was undercover with this group, (and now there are reports that there might have been at least 5 cops there,) are they trying to break up this gang?
I would imagine they're not trying to break it up so much as determine whether the gang is involved in criminal activity (beyond what was shown in the video).
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Old Oct 5, 2013, 11:36 AM   #205
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I would imagine they're not trying to break it up so much as determine whether the gang is involved in criminal activity (beyond what was shown in the video).
If they're off-duty, they're just doing it because they want to.
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Old Oct 5, 2013, 11:53 AM   #206
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If they're off-duty, they're just doing it because they want to.
True. But I've heard it describe as "undercover" ... perhaps incorrectly.
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Old Oct 5, 2013, 02:43 PM   #207
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From what I read, it was one undercover cop on duty and up to four more off-duty, presumably because that kind of fun outing appealed to their finer policemanly instincts.
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Old Oct 5, 2013, 03:14 PM   #208
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There goes everyone's "if I had a gun" fantasy.
More like you can't depend on anyone but yourself for your own defense.
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Old Oct 5, 2013, 03:29 PM   #209
citizenzen
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From what I read, it was one undercover cop on duty and up to four more off-duty, presumably because that kind of fun outing appealed to their finer policemanly instincts.
Which would bring into question just how wild and out-of-control these bikers were.

Well ... um .. nevermind.
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Old Oct 5, 2013, 03:42 PM   #210
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Which would bring into question just how wild and out-of-control these bikers were
Or possibly not, judging by the more widely publicised antics of your Boys in Blue.
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Old Oct 5, 2013, 03:56 PM   #211
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More like you can't depend on anyone but yourself for your own defense.
That's true too.

My point was too many people think a gun is a magic wand that gets you out of any situation.
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Old Oct 6, 2013, 02:25 PM   #212
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My point was too many people think a gun is a magic wand that gets you out of any situation.
Who are these people you are speaking of? Very few legal gun owners think that way.
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Old Oct 6, 2013, 05:18 PM   #213
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...ml?ir=New+York

That guy is a real saint.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/injured-bik...ry?id=20467895

I hate lawyers.
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Old Oct 7, 2013, 06:42 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by LIVEFRMNYC View Post
I'm not initially buying that he was scared. If I had my own or anyone's kid in my car, first thing I do is lock the doors. I just can't get past how he didn't lock the doors. That's the absolute first thing anyone thinks off when truly frightened, whether in a car or home.
That is absurd. Instead of that asinine conclusion the more reasonable reason the doors were unlocked is because the driver frantically tried to lock them; but erred and unlocked by mistake. I, and just about everyone that I have driven with, has done that when trying to quickly lock/unlock the doors in a hurry.



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Old Oct 8, 2013, 05:17 AM   #215
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Or he put his SUV in 'Park', which in my car unlocks the door. I imagine after the accident when he stopped he provably just put it in park.

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That is absurd. Instead of that asinine conclusion the more reasonable reason the doors were unlocked is because the driver frantically tried to lock them; but erred and unlocked by mistake. I, and just about everyone that I have driven with, has done that when trying to quickly lock/unlock the doors in a hurry.



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Old Oct 8, 2013, 10:14 AM   #216
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He didn't mind blowing his cover a couple of days later on national TV.

Interesting priorities.
The blowing his cover thing was pure BS. From the article:
Quote:
The cop's identity has not been released by the NYPD. According to officials, the officer notified his superiors days after the incident. He was a motorcyclist who was there on his own time, they said.

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Old Oct 8, 2013, 02:54 PM   #217
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Havenīt seen the video yet, but one can imply these werenīt bikers just enjoying a peaceful ride, it would seem, and I could be wrong, that they were enjoying being abusive towards other drivers.

On the driverīs position I would also have fled, but I would have called 911 immediately to let them know of the accident, that way Iīd kept my family safe and dialed to emergency services. That way the police would know I couldnīt stay and do the right thing because of a latent risk of getting hurt and getting my family in danger.

But one can say whatever one wants, since no one knows how one will react on similar situations. God bless the family man and the bikers, they all need it.
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Old Oct 8, 2013, 02:59 PM   #218
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Havenīt seen the video yet, but one can imply these werenīt bikers just enjoying a peaceful ride, it would seem, and I could be wrong, that they were enjoying being abusive towards other drivers.

On the driverīs position I would also have fled, but I would have called 911 immediately to let them know of the accident, that way Iīd kept my family safe and dialed to emergency services. That way the police would know I couldnīt stay and do the right thing because of a latent risk of getting hurt and getting my family in danger.

But one can say whatever one wants, since no one knows how one will react on similar situations. God bless the family man and the bikers, they all need it.
which is what they did, several times.
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Old Oct 8, 2013, 03:46 PM   #219
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At the start of the video...what the heck was the biker thinking slowing down in front of an SUV like that? It's hard to tell with his helmet on, but he almost looks like he's looking back at the SUV while slowing down, as if to say "I dare you". And why didn't the SUV slow down when the bike got that close in front of him? The whole thing just looks like a game of chicken gone wrong. Gotta wonder what happened that led up to the behavior at that point...

As a longtime rider I can tell you that motorcyclists and drivers often experience the same situation very differently. Taking into account blind spots and a motorcycle's small size and high acceleration, from the perspective of a driver a bike really can come out of nowhere. And from a motorcyclist's perspective, taking into account the precariousness inherent when there's no big metal cage protecting your squishy body, it's hard to avoid some rage when a driver's carelessness puts your life at risk.

Or maybe I'm just misreading the behavior of that first biker and he didn't feel slighted for something that happened before the video shows. He could have just not realized how close he was to the SUV.

Either way, like so many stories in threads around here, if only cooler heads had prevailed, etc. etc.
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Old Oct 8, 2013, 07:54 PM   #220
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So the undercover cop has been arrested.

Quote:
An NYPD officer who was on a deep undercover assignment when a violent fight erupted between a group of motorcyclists and a man driving a Range Rover in Manhattan has been arrested, police say.

Det. Wojciech Braszczok, 32, turned himself in to police Tuesday evening and was charged with riot and criminal mischief, according to police. He was with his attorney when he surrendered.

Braszczok has spent 10 years with the NYPD, the last five as an undercover, according to an official.

His attorney has declined to comment.

Last edited by MacNut; Oct 8, 2013 at 07:59 PM.
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Old Oct 9, 2013, 10:27 AM   #221
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One thing I was wondering about early in this discussion was if these bikers are so well known and so aggressive, so out of control, why weren't the cops controlling this?

Then it turns out than a number of the bikers are cops.

Now it all makes sense.
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Old Oct 14, 2013, 02:19 PM   #222
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Quote:
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From what I recall from my viewing this morning, the bikers sped after him and damaged his car (and beat him) after he'd run over some of them and drove away.

I am in no way endorsing the bikers behavior. IMO, they could have used their video and his license number and taken that to the cops without the chase and beating.

However, I don't see the driver of the SUV as blameless. He did run over the bikers and left the scene. What could possibly have justified that?
Umm.. Being surrounded by bikers who are damaging your vehicle, threatening to cause harm to you, your wife and your 2 year old kid in the back. If someone was threatening me, a friend, a family member, or what not, I will also be applying pressure to the gas pedal on my SUV too. Don't really give a crap about you or your family/friends if you are a stranger who is surrounding me making threats to me or my passengers or damaging my car. Don't want to be a pancake? Don't be a danger to me or my passengers. Common Sense? No?
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Old Oct 14, 2013, 02:26 PM   #223
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Umm.. Being surrounded by bikers who are damaging your vehicle, threatening to cause harm to you, your wife and your 2 year old kid in the back.
It's interesting how you went all the way back to quote my second post in this thread, when the circumstances behind the incident were still largely unknown to me.

Did you happen to miss the posts after that where I changed my position as it became more apparent what had taken place?

Post #121 ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
I've posted a number of times since that initial post, and said that if the bikers were attacking the family, then I could not fault the man for trying to escape and running some of them over. It was not clear in the video I saw what transpired just prior to that escape attempt, and thought it may have been a moment of road rage on the part of the driver. Subsequent evidence has been brought forward bringing some light to what occurred. I had hoped I made clear in my posts throughout this discussion that I therefore understood the SUV driver's actions.
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Old Oct 14, 2013, 03:00 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by LIVEFRMNYC View Post
So my post which you said was not relevant is correct. You already made up your mind who are and are not the victims without knowing anything other than what's on the Youtube vid.



Your previous posts about his traffic record is very mild. The only real difference from others who get tickets is he never paid his tickets. WOW ....So evil of man!!!

16 tickets since 1999? Are you kidding me? That's probably the norm.
I personally don't know anybody who has received more than 2 tickets in 14 years. And I know quite a few licensed drivers.
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Old Oct 16, 2013, 03:36 AM   #225
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I personally don't know anybody who has received more than 2 tickets in 14 years. And I know quite a few licensed drivers.
I've received ZERO tickets in 17 years. And I drive a lot, across multiple regions in different North American countries.
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