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Old Mar 28, 2012, 07:09 PM   #201
tido2012
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hahahaha! This is hilarious, how long before someone sues AT&T for putting 4G on the iPhone 4s. Mine downloads at 2-3 mb/s and uploads at less than 1mb/s, and I live in DFW area. Gotta love the lawsuits though, keeps people busy.
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Old Mar 28, 2012, 08:07 PM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarred
The whole 4G thing is a mess.

Wireless around the world is actually a mess. Carriers like it that way (helps with lock in).

Apple should definitely be the "bigger company" and not play this game. Advertise reality, and win the respect of customers for it.
Apple markets it as UP TO 4G, how is that not true
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Old Mar 28, 2012, 08:23 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by ivan2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by sclawis300 View Post
Doesn't anyone know how to read fine print anymore????????
Here is another one: this is about the commercials. There was no fine print in commercials!
And has anyone in the actual countries with an issue seen an ad where Apple said you would be able to get 4G speeds, by name, in that country.
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Old Mar 28, 2012, 08:37 PM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post
Apple markets it as UP TO 4G, how is that not true
Imagine you saw a headline in the Fox News newspaper that said:

Obama Caught Sleeping With Newt Gingrich's Third Wife
If you bought the newspaper and read the story, after the fold you'd read that by coincidence Barack and Callista happened to cross paths and stay in the same hotel one night.
____________

Apple is putting "4G" in the headline, and "after the fold" there's fine print....

Some countries have consumer protection laws that don't allow misleading headlines even if the fine print explains it all.
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Old Mar 28, 2012, 10:17 PM   #205
sclawis300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AidenShaw View Post
Imagine you saw a headline in the Fox News newspaper that said:

Obama Caught Sleeping With Newt Gingrich's Third Wife
If you bought the newspaper and read the story, after the fold you'd read that by coincidence Barack and Callista happened to cross paths and stay in the same hotel one night.
____________

Apple is putting "4G" in the headline, and "after the fold" there's fine print....

Some countries have consumer protection laws that don't allow misleading headlines even if the fine print explains it all.
I feel dumber for having read this comment.
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Old Mar 28, 2012, 10:19 PM   #206
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AT&T calling HSDPA+ a 4G network - not a problem.

Apple building LTE into an iPad and advertising it as 4G - seriously misleading.



Not to mention that the consumer agencies are technically right, because 4G is not specifically LTE but anything > 100MBit/s. Maybe Apple should put it another way, though:
Quote:
The new iPad, 4G-ready. It connects to EDGE in your region? Take your complains to your shi-hitty carrier!

Last edited by Giuly; Mar 28, 2012 at 10:25 PM.
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Old Mar 28, 2012, 11:33 PM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thekeyring View Post
I'm really confused. Apple released iPhone 4S and everyone said ":O it's not 4G" yet it was as fast as other phones that are 4G?

Now the iPad IS 4G people are saying it's not? Someone told me that LTE isn't 4G?

& with iOS 5.1 the "4G" symbols are appearing on iPhone 4S even though they're 3G phones.

I'm sorry I'm probably being very stupid, but can someone explain it to me in words I understand.
The question isn't about the speed of a 4G network... don't know where anyone has come up with that idea.

The issue is that "the new iPad" is being marketed as and LTE device (ignore the 4G part). There are LTE networks in the countries that are taking issue with Apple... but those LTE networks run on a frequency that the iPad does not have the ability to access.

Basically, it would be like Apple selling a Blu-Ray player overseas, saying it can play all your favorite movies... but it's a blu-ray player that only plays region 1 encoded videos (one made the in the usa) so it's a worthless device for playing movies in Austrailia since the Blu-Ray discs there would not work in the player.

This goes beyond bad marketing on Apple's part... why didn't they ship devices with compatible chips to European markets?

It's kind of also like, you can use an AT&T phone on T-Mobile's network if you put a T-Mobile sim inside. T-Mobile markets you can bring an iPhone to their network... but they have a disclaimer that warns customers visual voice mail won't be available, and that you internet speed would be limited to the Edge network only. Imagine if T-Mobile left out that disclaimer... you canceled a contract, and took an iPhone to theri network and found yourself not getting all the advertised features. This is worse because it's Apple advertising features that are useless in foreign markets.

Apple could easily have changed the ads to be more specific to the region as well. They're running the same ads over seas that they are running in the US. Just stupidity on Cupertinos part.
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 12:54 AM   #208
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Maybe someone will actually notice this article from New Zealand, I emailed it to the tips email and never got a reply
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 12:56 AM   #209
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Oh man europe is so crappy, using GSM everywhere rather than using our superior american free market system of having GSM in some areas and CDMA in other areas with heavy carrier lock in.
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 01:16 AM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konrad9
Why are they singling out Apple in this case? While I agree Apple shouldn't be advertising 4G if it isn't "true" 4G, every other company does the same thing.
Ok. Who?

The LTE standard is widely considered to be a true 4G tech (atleast has the potential to be). The thing is that it doesn't even work with LTE in most other countries than the US and Canada, due to differences in the frequencies used in the rest of the world.

Apple states it supports 4G via LTE, which is a blatant lie in these countries as it is unusable. It is nothing like some companies marking hspa+ as 4G, as 4G is just a marketing word and has not really been clearly defined. But apple explicitly states 4G=LTE


Edit: damn, my phone messed up and didn't show the next button on the first page, so i believed there was only 1 page... didn't mean to quote someone 30 or so pages back...

Last edited by bogg; Mar 29, 2012 at 01:18 AM.
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 01:59 AM   #211
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iPad 3 also mis-labeled in Switzerland.

I documented the misleading 4G branding and fine-print shenanigans on my blog: New iPad capable of 4G only in North America. Both Apple and Swiss mobile carrier Swisscom are guilty of sending misleading messages about the capabilities of the new iPad.

In short, I ordered the iPad 3 (The New iPad) as soon as it was available. There is a nascent 4G network here in Switzerland, and I was disappointed to learn that the WiFi + 4G model will not work on this network. Apple was very cooperative, and allowed me to return the iPad for a full refund. They helped me place an order for an ordinary WiFi model. Unfortunately, placing a new order meant going back to the end of the line. I will have to wait two more weeks before the replacement iPad will even ship.

Both Apple and Swisscom market the new iPad as being capable of 4G. Both tout the high speed of wireless connectivity alongside the 4G branding. They both reveal the fact that the device is incapable of 4G in Switzerland only indirectly, and only in fine print. They both market the product in a way that is likely to confuse many consumers.

Apple has already updated some of its marketing in Switzerland, replacing a 4G icon with a simple network tower icon on the iPad Features page. Unfortunately, the iPad is still sold as WiFi + 4G on the online Apple Store for Switzerland.
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 02:08 AM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMNB1tch
not sure if this is marketing's fault?

or everyone carriers duped you into thinking your 3G is "actually" "4G"

TRUE 4G is 100mbps in motion and 1gbps stationary

only SKTelecom and NTTDoCoMo have these sort of speeds

sorry rest of the world your carrier lies
So this is not for immediate use... BUT - it is clever invest it to the BRIGHT future of yours - having iPad 4G , ladies & gents. Hold tight and wait pationately for iPad 4G S !!!
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 02:14 AM   #213
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I can see the future either , sire. Name of it floating in my eyes - iPad 4G S !
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 02:39 AM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by animatedude View Post
LOL! good one!

so the iPad released in the UK will not work on 4G when it's offered by orange in OCT?
Ha, good luck with that. You probably mean October 2013?
But besides that, no, it will not work with Orange, as no device will as Orange uses again other frequencies. Not the US ones nor the European once but something in between (1800Mhz). And do not think its the same 1800 Mhz t-mobile is using in Germany (so they are not compatable with the 2600 Mhz from Vodafone) because they use different bands within this frequency. As is Vodafone in Germany, there LTE phones (dissmal performance) are not even compatible with there own network outside there 2600Mhz range as they also use 800Mhz and 700 Mhz (of course different bands to the American 700Mhz.)
Take your shiny 2600Mhz Vodafone Phone from Germany and try to log on a few km up north to a 2600Mhz LTE in Sweden. NOT.
Same in the UK, within proposed networks you will have different frequencies and bands to cope with, some frequencies are not even auctioned yet, nobody knows what and when its coming.

In the mean time we can in Europe enjoy 4G speeds (even if nitpickers refuse to call it 4G) without any frequency or band trouble with up to 42Mbit/s over HDSPA+DC networks, they are faster then LTE (exept in some small cells in Sweden, where there are theoretically slightly faster speeds) use less battery, are cheaper and are supported by the new iPad.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Therbo View Post
I think we should complain how Apple advertised on its UK website that the 4S was a world phone compared to the 4, when it supports the same amount of countries to roam too.
Really? The iPhone 4 couls roam in CDMA Networks?
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 11:56 AM   #215
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This just occurred to me: if Apple had withheld the "4G" model from the rest of the world instead, just selling it in the USA and Canada, we would be reading about how the rest of the world was upset that Apple was not offering the "4G" model to them. It was already made apparent that Apple could not possibly offer an iPad that had every band for every carrier in the world, at least not yet as the tech has not been brought to market. Also, I do not recall anyone being forced to purchase an iPad, and to that effect I also do not recall Apple having an "All Sales FINAL" sign on any of their stores that I have been to.

It sucks that they are touting the new iPad as "4G", but is it not our responsibility as consumers to research a product before we shell out more than $600 for it? I looked on the box and it said "4G", so it must "just work" right? Wrong, one should check to see if it works first with the carriers in their country, and second in their area. Anyone who buys the iPad with 4G only to find that it doesn't work where they live is obviously ill-informed, and gets no sympathy from me.
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 12:37 PM   #216
rum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imahottguy View Post
This just occurred to me: if Apple had withheld the "4G" model from the rest of the world instead,
Brilliant idea! No 4G and no 3G/UMTS for them foreigners.

There you go. Problem solved.

Apple has separate Wifi+4G model for AT&T and for Verizon but no-one else.

Makes perfect sense to me.
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 12:40 PM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slovak View Post
This means I should be able to sue every sports car manufacturer that shows an ad with their car going 100+ mph. My country/state/city doesn't have suitable roads and/or arbitrarily low speed limits. Waaaah!
No, it'd be more like if Ford advertised a car that could go 100+ mph, but only in the US. If you tried to drive that fast on the Autobahn, it would stop at 65 mph.
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 12:44 PM   #218
rum
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Originally Posted by cmoney View Post
No, it'd be more like if Ford advertised a car that could go 100+ mph, but only in the US. If you tried to drive that fast on the Autobahn, it would stop at 65 mph.
Actually, more like if you were allowed on the main roads but not on the autobahn.

You can still go from A to B but slower.

For Apple this perfectly acceptable. Would it be for Ford?
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 12:47 PM   #219
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They should just rename it to WiFi+4G/NA*.

*NA: North America or Not Applicable.
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 02:00 PM   #220
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I don't care, people who buy the iPad 3 are stupid dumb ****s.
Seriously, outside the marketing or PR ******** and lies, I know nobody who uses the iPad intensively as a laptop or a smartphone replacement.

And although for once I recognized that the iPad 2 was one of the best update and release in these Apple days where innovation, quality and power are completely gone, the iPad 3 is complete joke.

Paying the same price one year after for a fatter tablet with battery problems just to have a display that you can't see pixels of if you look stupidly closely...

Yes let's talk about the stupidity of the Retina Display: I could understand why the iPhone 4 that had several new features including the Retina Display was okay as a bonus, but otherwise people are so dumb that they forgot the primary use and interest of a new device; for it to be innovative, more powerful and better designed/programmed so the use of it is more efficient and friendly. Now what's the point of a ****ing tablet with a resolution higher than a effin 1080p TV screen? "Sharper" angry birds? "Crispier" texts from you Mum ?
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 04:57 PM   #221
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yikes so much drama
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 04:26 PM   #222
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Retina + 4G was the reason that I bought the "new" Ipad.
Here in Sweden: when we check out of Apple store we are offered free 1 month 4G data service. Of course I believed it was LTE, not 3.5G.

Sweden was the first country with LTE test network in 2009. Ipad is equipped with LTE.

How am I as a consumer going to know that Apples LTE is not compatible with our real LTE?

I was going to switch my ADSL to LTE and use Ipad as a hotspot. In Sweden we still have real unlimited dataplans and LTE was only 5-10 dollars more expensive then my ADSL connection.

I hope for a refund.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosties View Post
Due to the fact that Europe have a wider and better mobile communications network than the american counterparts this is just a laugh.

In Sweden we have had 3G and 4G for some years now. 4G networks was first built here in the world due in big part from Ericsson base stations.

It's just that we have set aside other frequencies than the US due to restriction from military etc. I don't think any concerned party will be happy to have their communications hampered be it in the US or Europe.

Apple choose the home market before the world yet again. For us Apple customers this is no news, it goes way back. We just choose to ignore it for the most part because we love the products.
Just a small correction.
The first LTE network was in Sweden, but Ericsson did not deliver the base stations. Huawei did.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by rum View Post
Wrong. You lose.

It is not possible because we -- all of us -- cannot agree on single standards. Blaming the Americans alone is missing the point.

Blame all of us and you're closer to the guilty party.

The few that think that gain anything is the backward carrier industry.

Can anyone imaging the "industry" coming up with the GSM standard and the amazing explosion that followed? It took government regulation to make it happen.

Why can't replicate the same world-wide? Blame our poor, sorry, cash-starve, lobby-sensitive representatives.
Nope
USA have always protected its own industry. Wrong or right. Thats why they don't follow international standards. There are many examples

TV: NTSC 3G: CDMA. LTE: wrong radio and so on...
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Old Mar 31, 2012, 03:44 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by ZipZap View Post
HSPA+ is not 4G

HSPA+ is 3.5G

LTE is 4G
LTE is not 4G.
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Old Mar 31, 2012, 04:07 AM   #224
Chlloret
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shompa View Post
Retina + 4G was the reason that I bought the "new" Ipad.
Here in Sweden: when we check out of Apple store we are offered free 1 month 4G data service. Of course I believed it was LTE, not 3.5G.

Sweden was the first country with LTE test network in 2009. Ipad is equipped with LTE.

How am I as a consumer going to know that Apples LTE is not compatible with our real LTE?

I was going to switch my ADSL to LTE and use Ipad as a hotspot. In Sweden we still have real unlimited dataplans and LTE was only 5-10 dollars more expensive then my ADSL connection.

I hope for a refund.
So what you are saying is, that you informed yourself about LTE, your Provider and Apple told you that you can conect to your swedisch LTE Network, even giving you a month free service and then, after you bought the device and signed the contract, they all over sudden changed there mind?

That would indeed be rather strange. Off course you will get a refund. Since you found out about that probably Minutes after you tried to connect, there should be no problem at all.

Just one question, the iPad actually connects in Sweden FASTER then the LTE average over HSDPA+DC and could be used as a hotspot (as you wanted to), so why the big deal about LTE?

Besides, if you just want a hotspot, why not just take the free LTE-Wireless Hotspot from your provider? Is a new iPad there not a bit overkill?
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Old Apr 25, 2012, 08:02 AM   #225
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Samsung and HTC phones and tablets are compatible with Australian 4G so why cant Apple do it?
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