Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Current Events

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Feb 15, 2013, 07:39 AM   #51
fat jez
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Glasgow, UK
Why does knowing where Richard III was buried and will now be buried change history?
__________________
'11 MBP 2.3GHz 16GB RAM 240GB SSD 15" Anti-Glare screen OS X 10.9.2
iPhone 5S 64GB
iPad Air 32GB
fat jez is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 15, 2013, 08:07 AM   #52
pollaxe
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: West of England
Quote:
Originally Posted by sim667 View Post
Because future generations will forget he was dug up and moved and assumed he was always given a kings burial in whatever cathedral he ends up in, when actually he was killed in quite a nasty way, and given a small funeral (not quite a paupers funeral, but certainly low key) in a small church. That is the story of the last english king to die in battle, and that history will now be forgotten.

At the end of the day the sole reason he was exhumed and moved was for the university to get itself in the media, it really has served no other purpose.

In addition I also think its disrespectful to disturb any burial ground except extreme cases for instance when exhumation takes place for murder investigations etc.

British history forgets its folklore tradition, science has to prove its worth by finding dead kings, and making a media frenzy about it, but in doing so trashes the history that education has been built upon...... Its commonplace now...... I bet if you ask most History GCSE students what the earliest religions where in England they'll say Christianity, which most people with an interest in history should know it wasnt.
I can see your point but I think history will recall what happened to him. He's celebrated as being the last king to die in battle and the little dignity that his enemies accorded him is well known and is backed-up by the 'wounds of humiliation' they've found during the investigation of his bones.

IIRC The Richard III Society paid for the dig, using donations from its members to fund it and one of their driving motivations was that they felt the ignoble treatment surrounding his burial needed to be redressed and that he deserved a decent tomb. I'm inclined to agree with that view. They aren't putting him on display, they're giving him a decent reburial and I think that's fitting for a former king.

What's happening to him now will be part of history too and finding him has added to our historical knowledge of the period so I would contend that it's actually helped to preserve and add to the history of the man and his times, rather than pervert it...
pollaxe is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 15, 2013, 09:08 AM   #53
jeremy h
Thread Starter
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: UK
I too have some sympathy for Sim's point but would suggest that this whole thing is a bit like when they discuss Quantum stuff and say that all things are possible until you observe it then the outcome is fixed*.

Once you actually know it's Richard in the car park then the outcome is fixed, as suddenly it's no longer a car park, despite the fact you're parking cars there. You're now just letting people park on the grave of a very famous king of England.

To stop that sort of thing happening I guess you've got to stop looking for evidence of anything (stop observing) for fear of fixing the outcome and I'm not sure where that would leave us.

*Please don't pick me up on this - I really have no idea how it all works.
jeremy h is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 15, 2013, 10:48 AM   #54
carlgo
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
As an American who has no emotional tie to lucky sperm royalty, it still seems that tradition and history requires a proper burial. A reasonable royal tomb is the right end for this.

The alternative would be to dig up the parking lot and make it an historical memorial site. That would also be a graceful solution for others who may still be buried there.
carlgo is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 15, 2013, 11:19 AM   #55
AhmedFaisal
Guest
 
<snip>

Last edited by AhmedFaisal; Nov 16, 2013 at 06:19 PM.
  0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 18, 2013, 01:52 PM   #56
snberk103
macrumors 603
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: An Island in the Salish Sea
Quote:
Originally Posted by sim667 View Post
Because future generations will forget he was dug up and moved and assumed he was always given a kings burial in whatever cathedral he ends up in, ....
You make a surprisingly good argument though I'm not entirely convinced. I think a proper reburial is still the best course of action.

I doubt it will happen, and I do say this with tongue in cheek... but it wouldn't hurt to inscribe on that marble tomb something along the lines of "Exhumed from a council parking lot... " somewhere. That would ensure that future generations don't forget that bit of history. I think you are right that where the bones were finally found is will be as important as the rest of his life in writing his history for future generations.
__________________
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - Jack Layton
snberk103 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 19, 2013, 04:01 PM   #57
sim667
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
There are many things forgotten in the confines of british history or perverted to suit a political view. Whilst this is a little old to be one, it opens it up to the oppurtunity to do it.
__________________
Mac Pro, Macbook Pro, G4 Powerbook, iPad 4, iPhone 5, 2X TV, Nikon D800, ACSP Trained - Photography and Mac tech
Music and UK festival Blog
sim667 is online now   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 20, 2013, 07:27 AM   #58
Eadfrith
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Lindisfarena
Quote:
Originally Posted by pollaxe View Post
Part of me would like to see him buried in York (it was where he wished to be laid to rest, apparently) but so long as it's done with dignity, I don't really mind Leicester, either.
It won't be.
Eadfrith is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 20, 2013, 09:33 AM   #59
pollaxe
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: West of England
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eadfrith View Post
It won't be.
Really?

To be honest, considering the way he was treated in 1485, I would think the only way is up when it comes to his reburial!
pollaxe is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 20, 2013, 09:37 AM   #60
fat jez
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Glasgow, UK
As a former head of state, I expect his burial will get all the deference due his position. However he was treated before, he was a King of England and should be treated as such.
__________________
'11 MBP 2.3GHz 16GB RAM 240GB SSD 15" Anti-Glare screen OS X 10.9.2
iPhone 5S 64GB
iPad Air 32GB
fat jez is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 20, 2013, 10:46 AM   #61
jeremy h
Thread Starter
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: UK
Well, back in the day, they wouldn't have thought anything of chopping up and boiling up a VIP's body straight off the battlefield so the bones could be transported back home to be entombed with (eventual) dignity.
jeremy h is offline   0 Reply With Quote


Reply
MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Current Events

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
HORSE Poker Calculator Sharkfacepoker iPad Apps 0 Jul 25, 2013 12:39 AM
its like beating a dead horse... Appl3FTW Wasteland 13 Mar 3, 2013 01:15 AM
Horse Burgers citizenzen Politics, Religion, Social Issues 48 Feb 4, 2013 11:51 AM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:45 PM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps