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Old Mar 27, 2012, 03:10 PM   #51
astral125
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If Matt Spaccarelli taught us anything, it is that we should be taking AT&T to small claims court over these civil issues. I am kicking myself for not thinking of this earlier as I just sold my iPhone 4 on ebay.
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Old Apr 3, 2012, 11:19 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Stampyhead View Post
I don't think Apple has anything to do with it. If that were the case then none of the carriers would give their customers an unlock. I'm with O2 here in the UK and I just have to fill out an online form requesting them to unlock my phone and it's unlocked within 2 weeks. They don't even require me to finish my contract first.
If Apple, wanted to, they could have sold all phones unlocked. At the end of the day, there was an agreement stating they will not unlock the phones under certain circumstances. This is fine and dandy, and within their rights. I am just saying that people give the carriers WAYYYY too much flack.
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Old Apr 3, 2012, 12:55 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by lordofthereef View Post
If Apple, wanted to, they could have sold all phones unlocked. At the end of the day, there was an agreement stating they will not unlock the phones under certain circumstances. This is fine and dandy, and within their rights. I am just saying that people give the carriers WAYYYY too much flack.
You don't think that AT&T pushed that requirement onto Apple? I think you don't give the carriers enough flack. If the carriers wanted to, the could have never asked Apple to lock the phones. Locking was not Apple's idea, I guarantee that. It was a stupid industry practice that started long before Apple started making phones.
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Old Apr 3, 2012, 01:12 PM   #54
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You don't think that AT&T pushed that requirement onto Apple? I think you don't give the carriers enough flack. If the carriers wanted to, the could have never asked Apple to lock the phones. Locking was not Apple's idea, I guarantee that. It was a stupid industry practice that started long before Apple started making phones.
I do. And Apple agreed to it. Certainly this is backed by the carriers. But they are not the only ones to blame here, as most people seem to be doing...
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Old Apr 3, 2012, 01:24 PM   #55
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I do. And Apple agreed to it. Certainly this is backed by the carriers. But they are not the only ones to blame here, as most people seem to be doing...
Sure, Apple could have pushed the issue, but I'm guessing they had bigger issues to negotiate. Blame Apple if you like, but the source of the issue is the carrier, so I blame them.
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Old Apr 3, 2012, 01:36 PM   #56
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Sure, Apple could have pushed the issue, but I'm guessing they had bigger issues to negotiate. Blame Apple if you like, but the source of the issue is the carrier, so I blame them.
Listen, my friend. I am not sure why you are pushing the fact that I blame Apple. Frankly, I blame both. It takes two to agree to these terms. As far as I am concerned, they are equally to blame. "We had other things to worry about" isn't a very valid excuse in my book. Hell, maybe the carriers have others things to worry about as well... If you want to go on believing Apple can do no evil, far be it from me to stop you.
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Old Apr 3, 2012, 02:30 PM   #57
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Listen, my friend. I am not sure why you are pushing the fact that I blame Apple. Frankly, I blame both. It takes two to agree to these terms. As far as I am concerned, they are equally to blame. "We had other things to worry about" isn't a very valid excuse in my book. Hell, maybe the carriers have others things to worry about as well... If you want to go on believing Apple can do no evil, far be it from me to stop you.
First, I'm not your friend. Secondly, I don't believe Apple can do no evil. So turn your finger back at yourself if your looking at people making assumptions.

I worked in the wireless industry for many years so I have an intimate knowledge of the inner workings. I'm not saying Apple couldn't have attempted to fix the situation, but why are you looking at Apple when every other phone manufacturer has agreed to lock their devices as well?

Like I said, I blame those that initiated this entire mess.
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Old Apr 3, 2012, 03:23 PM   #58
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First, I'm not your friend. Secondly, I don't believe Apple can do no evil. So turn your finger back at yourself if your looking at people making assumptions.
You sure do take things extremely literally, don't you?

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I'm not saying Apple couldn't have attempted to fix the situation, but why are you looking at Apple when every other phone manufacturer has agreed to lock their devices as well?
"Think different" no?

My point, from the beginning, is I look at all parties involved. Apple got through that they wanted their ecosystem (iOS) untouched by the carriers. The carriers listened. I guess allowing us to use their phone on any network we choose is where Apple draws the line in caring about the customer. But, then again, with your intimate knowledge of the industry, I am sure you are very well aware of this.
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Old Apr 3, 2012, 03:58 PM   #59
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Everyone here using an ATT iPhone should email Tim Cook and ask to have there iPhone unlocked. Then get your friends and family to do same. Maybe a swarm of emails will get Apple to pressure ATT to unlock. After all the Sprint and VZW phones are unlocked for int'l use so no reason why ATTs should be unlocked if your acct is in good standing.
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Old Apr 3, 2012, 04:03 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Geckotek View Post
First, I'm not your friend. Secondly, I don't believe Apple can do no evil. So turn your finger back at yourself if your looking at people making assumptions.

I worked in the wireless industry for many years so I have an intimate knowledge of the inner workings. I'm not saying Apple couldn't have attempted to fix the situation, but why are you looking at Apple when every other phone manufacturer has agreed to lock their devices as well?

Like I said, I blame those that initiated this entire mess.
Well, unlike other manufacturers' phones, the first iPhone was unsubsidized and still locked to AT&T. In fact, until very recently, all off-contract iPhones were locked (in this country). Every other manufacturer sold unlocked phones if you were willing to buy without a subsidy. Given that, I think it's fair to say that a good bit of the blame lies with Apple.

We'll never know how the deal transpired, but I would not be surprised if AT&T offered a more lucrative profit-sharing scheme in exchange for locking all US iPhones.
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Old Apr 3, 2012, 10:38 PM   #61
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If that was the case then they would allow you to unlock once you have fulfilled your contract and paid back the subsidy discount.
That would make sense if all subsidies were equal. Apple demands and gets higher subsidies than Android manufacturers. AT&T should be able to get something in return, right?
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Old Apr 4, 2012, 08:56 AM   #62
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That would make sense if all subsidies were equal. Apple demands and gets higher subsidies than Android manufacturers. AT&T should be able to get something in return, right?
But dont they get their money back and then some in the 24 month period that you are under contract? perhaps less with Apple than with Android devices but thats the cost of doing business if you want to have the hottest device that everytone is clamoring after right?

Assuming a basic individual plan:

450 minutes - $39.99
Unlimited messaging - $20.00
3GB iPhone data plan - $30.00
One time activation fee - $36.00

After 24 months AT&T has made $2,195.76 from you...

I dont know how much apple charges AT&T for each phone but for consumers if you want the contract free unlocked version it's $450 more than the contract AT&T version.... so lets assume Apple doesn't give AT&T a bulk discount:

$2,195.76 - $450 = $1,745.76

Thats how much AT&T has made off you in 2 years after fronting your subsidy, and thats on a basic individual plan. I think that more than covers any expenses and they profit nicely.. especially on text messages which cost carriers almost nothing.

Anyway that being said I still stand by my statement. AT&T should let you do as you wish with your iPhone after you have served your 2 years sentence, and are a customer in good standing.
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Old Apr 4, 2012, 09:28 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by bigjnyc View Post

After 24 months AT&T has made $2,195.76 from you...

I
To clarify, that is how much gross income they made from you. It is not their net income which is what the business model would be based upon. They need to pay their employees, leases, capital expenses, etc first. Then any remaining profit could be used in the calculation to determine if they cover the subsidy in 24 months or not.
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Old Apr 4, 2012, 09:37 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by mattwallace24 View Post
To clarify, that is how much gross income they made from you. It is not their net income which is what the business model would be based upon. They need to pay their employees, leases, capital expenses, etc first. Then any remaining profit could be used in the calculation to determine if they cover the subsidy in 24 months or not.
I don't think anyone's forgetting that. But I'm also pretty sure they're making a healthy profit with that money considering AT&T posted a 3.4 billion dollar profit last year (39% increase compared to 2010) despite the failed T-mobile merger and the losses associated with that.
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Old Apr 4, 2012, 09:39 AM   #65
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To clarify, that is how much gross income they made from you. It is not their net income which is what the business model would be based upon. They need to pay their employees, leases, capital expenses, etc first. Then any remaining profit could be used in the calculation to determine if they cover the subsidy in 24 months or not.
Yeah I wrote in my post that, that should cover any expenses and they profit nicely. I'm sure that more than covers any expenses, overhead, employees etc... alloted to each individual customer.
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Old Apr 4, 2012, 05:46 PM   #66
PharmDoc
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Wirelessly posted

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Originally Posted by Chupa Chupa
Everyone here using an ATT iPhone should email Tim Cook and ask to have there iPhone unlocked. Then get your friends and family to do same. Maybe a swarm of emails will get Apple to pressure ATT to unlock. After all the Sprint and VZW phones are unlocked for int'l use so no reason why ATTs should be unlocked if your acct is in good standing.
+1 ( and maybe Randall Stevenson as well). With the iPhone being available in 3 out of the 4 big carriers and lots of regional carriers in April, there is NO reason for AT&T to have their current no-unlock policy. I don't know if I wi renew with them when my contract is up.
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Old Apr 4, 2012, 05:49 PM   #67
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i wouldn't doubt it
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