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Old Dec 30, 2013, 03:19 PM   #26
Technarchy
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But it's pretty hard to believe that the NSA is actually physically installing spyware to collect data on these devices. The scale of a program like that would be so massive this would not be the first time we'd be hearing about it.
Think of how big this spying program was and how long it went on. We would know nothing without Snowden.
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 03:19 PM   #27
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You're worried about just your phone ?

Try you're local WiFi network.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/12/30/n...way/#continued
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 03:24 PM   #28
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Oh who cares. Unless you're a terrorist or a child molester/pornographer (in which case I hope you get caught), who cares if the government knows who and what you text?

I mean seriously.
NSA employee identified.
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 03:25 PM   #29
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Are there any legitimate tech sources with this information or is this just some random fear mongering from a random blog?
Glenn Greenwald's slow leak continues. Apparently he has the lions share of documents, which are "supplied" to other journalists who then do the reporting.

Mr Greenwald is making a "free-journalism" association with Pierre Omydiar to the tune of 250m$. PayPal, owned by Greenwald's partner Omidyar, handed over customer data to NSA. Greenwald is on record as saying "I don’t doubt Paypal cooperates with NSA – that this is in the docs that we’ve been paid to withhold are total lies.. "
-Conflict of interests?

Sadly the entire documents are never released; only a few pages at a time.

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Old Dec 30, 2013, 03:28 PM   #30
zioxide
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Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
Think of how big this spying program was and how long it went on. We would know nothing without Snowden.
Many people had suspicions it was going on, Snowden only gave us concrete proof.


But you really think the NSA has people at every Fedex & UPS hub in the country and they're unwrapping every single iOS device shipped into the country, installing spyware on it, and then repackaging it?
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 03:37 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by zioxide View Post
Are there any legitimate tech sources with this information or is this just some random fear mongering from a random blog?

But it's pretty hard to believe that the NSA is actually physically installing spyware to collect data on these devices. The scale of a program like that would be so massive this would not be the first time we'd be hearing about it.
Apparently they can push and pull files, hot mic, camera, through a "Software Implant" called DROPOUTJEEP, which communicated with NSA servers.

Der Spiegel original source.
Cult of Mac re-story with more of an iPhone focus.



----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by zioxide View Post
Many people had suspicions it was going on, Snowden only gave us concrete proof.


But you really think the NSA has people at every Fedex & UPS hub in the country and they're unwrapping every single iOS device shipped into the country, installing spyware on it, and then repackaging it?
Maybe not to 100%, but could be anywhere from 100% to 99% to 1%.. It'd be nice to have an actual number.
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 03:37 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by zioxide View Post

But you really think the NSA has people at every Fedex & UPS hub in the country and they're unwrapping every single iOS device shipped into the country, installing spyware on it, and then repackaging it?
An NSA backdoor is more like they have a way to decrypt info being sent between certain Apple services, so they can more easily perform a man in the middle style grab-all.

Them having direct, unfettered access to your phone wouldn't be constitutionally kosher. You're expected to have a modicum of privacy on your personal device, so they can't touch it. Remember, the NSA has been able to get away with the things it's gotten away with because it's just constitutional enough.

...well, depending on how you interpret the constitution, and the phrase "expectation of privacy" anyway.
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 03:49 PM   #33
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An NSA backdoor is more like they have a way to decrypt info being sent between certain Apple services, so they can more easily perform a man in the middle style grab-all.

Them having direct, unfettered access to your phone wouldn't be constitutionally kosher. You're expected to have a modicum of privacy on your personal device, so they can't touch it. Remember, the NSA has been able to get away with the things it's gotten away with because it's just constitutional enough.

...well, depending on how you interpret the constitution, and the phrase "expectation of privacy" anyway.
Anyone remember the scene from "Se7en" about tracking library records.

Brad Pitt: How is this Legal?
Morgan Freeman: Legal. Illegal. These terms don't apply...it's just useful guide.

Mind you this movie is about 20 years old.

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Old Dec 30, 2013, 04:14 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
Anyone remember the scene from "Se7en" about tracking library records.

Brad Pitt: How is this Legal?
Morgan Freeman: Legal. Illegal. These terms don't apply...it's just useful guide.

Mind you this movie is about 20 years old.
The one funniest thing about PRISM is how it literally sounds like every single nutcase conspiracy theory all rolled into one vicious supertheory. If someone were to walk up to you in 2002 and say that the government is actively recording the metadata from every phonecall you make, and archiving every email, every internet search, every US citizen has made over a 5 year period, you'd probably just stare at them blankly for a second, and move on without saying a word. You only hear things like that from guys flying upside down American flags in front of their underground bunkers.

...but it's real. It's actually happening. 0_O

edit: and you know what the worst part of it all is? The NSA is doing it not because of some deep seated scheme to disenfranchise every US citizen in order to set up some New World Order. Oh no. They're doing it because...let's face it...they're lazy.

"Hey Bill, you know how when we get a suspect, we have to go through all that trouble setting up a warrant, then jump through all those hoops talking to all the telcos to set up a wire tap, and track the number, and get more and more warrants to track all the numbers off that? It's a pain in the ass, right"?

"Damn straight it is, Bob".

"Well, I've got this idea. Why don't we make it so that we collect everything everyone does over the air, but not look at it. Then, when we get wind of something bad happening through the usual channels, we can get a warrant to look at what we've already collected".

"That's goddamn brilliant, Bob! We wouldn't even have to do any real work if we could get that rolling! I bet I could take at least another two month of vacation days every years with something like that. Problem is, it's not exactly legal..."

"The Patriot Act, Bill..."

"WELL HOLY ****ING ****. LET'S DO THIS"!

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Old Dec 30, 2013, 04:25 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
The one funniest thing about PRISM is how it literally sounds like every single nutcase conspiracy theory all rolled into one vicious supertheory. If someone were to walk up to you in 2002 and say that the government is actively recording the metadata from every phonecall you make, and archiving every email, every internet search, every US citizen has made over a 5 year period, you'd probably just stare at them blankly for a second, and move on without saying a word. You only hear things like that from guys flying upside down American flags in front of their underground bunkers.

...but it's real. It's actually happening. 0_O
Yup. That's why they built this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center

Too bad most people just discounted it and acted like it couldn't happen back then.

If people were as outraged in 2001/2002 about the Patriot Act and whatnot as they are about the NSA now, maybe this wouldn't be happening.
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 04:35 PM   #36
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If people were as outraged in 2001/2002 about the Patriot Act and whatnot as they are about the NSA now, maybe this wouldn't be happening.
They were to a point. But it was over the potential abuses that could arise from it. It was too vague a law, rife with loopholes, and with far too many broad implications. But, like you said, no one actually imagined something of this scope and scale actually coming to pass.

Even though we shouldn't be surprised that it did. It all but gave the intelligence industry carte blanche to do as they please...
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 04:47 PM   #37
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They were to a point. But it was over the potential abuses that could arise from it. It was too vague a law, rife with loopholes, and with far too many broad implications. But, like you said, no one actually imagined something of this scope and scale actually coming to pass.
But this is one of those potential abuses that rose from it. That is the point. Again, it goes back to the thought that those had about people who did speak out about this.. I believe "UnAmerican" was the term used...

Quote:
Even though we shouldn't be surprised that it did. It all but gave the intelligence industry carte blanche to do as they please...
We shouldn't be surprised, no.. but those that went along with it wouldn't be able to stomach the fact that their naysayers were right and they were wrong.

BL.
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 05:07 PM   #38
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But this is one of those potential abuses that rose from it. That is the point.
And I'm all but agreeing with that.

Quote:
Again, it goes back to the thought that those had about people who did speak out about this.. I believe "UnAmerican" was the term used...
Hopefully in the context it was used, it was nothing more than a jingo buzzword that felt flat. Unlike during Iraq...

Jesus. Did the country go crazy all at once, or did it happen so slowly, we barely noticed it until we were surrounded by nothing but? Has it ever been as bad as this before? Is it a phase? God, I hope it is.

I don't think even the 60's were this bad. I obviously didn't live through that era, but from my perspective, it felt like a struggle to do what was right. Now, it's like an underlying sickness in the country that's effecting us all. It might be me looking at history through rose tinted glasses, but...

...well, we live in interesting times.

Quote:
We shouldn't be surprised, no.. but those that went along with it wouldn't be able to stomach the fact that their naysayers were right and they were wrong.
I guess all those people who said we have to do whatever it takes to protect us from the terrorists got exactly what they wanted. I hope it's a bitter pill for them to swallow, too.
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 05:26 PM   #39
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Perhaps, but it doesn't take away the fact that just because one may not have a problem with it doesn't mean that one should not care about it.

that same disillusioned stance was taken in the early 200s after the Patriot Act was passed, along with warrant-less wiretapping. The premise was "if you're not doing anything illegal, you shouldn't care about it".

Yet Ben Franklin surmised it perfectly about giving up security for safety, let alone giving up his rights under the 4th Amendment.

But then again, if he doesn't care about his Constitutional rights, perhaps he should renounce his citizenship.
I probably didn't make my point clear enough: 1984 was a game compared to what the world is evolving to.
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 05:37 PM   #40
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The problem is that you are living in a "could happen" reality. Start living in the actual reality and forget about things that could happen. You are wasting your time. You are going to put yourself in a "everybody is out to get me" corner.

If you want a real perspective on these issues then look into basic geopolitics.
Next time you go to the store hit 100mph, don't worry about what COULD happen.

On another front, capabilities are beyond all that you report. I was in that world for a short time. Much of what is stated here has been available for decades in some form or another. A computer monitor can be read at the street wirelessly for example. Just saying/////

edit; now think of this tech in the hands of a power hungry leader, one that welds the IRS, Media, and all communications-one that doesn't like the other end of the political spectrum....right and left should be very scared of this kind of power.
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 05:39 PM   #41
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I expected this. I'm sure the NSA has a backdoor way into anything. It is a shame privacy will soon be a myth amongst the human race. All roads to hell are regretfully paved with good intentions...
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 05:44 PM   #42
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I probably didn't make my point clear enough: 1984 was a game compared to what the world is evolving to.
Point well taken, and very true.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
And I'm all but agreeing with that.

Hopefully in the context it was used, it was nothing more than a jingo buzzword that felt flat. Unlike during Iraq...
It wasn't. Started much earlier from what I've read (FDR days), but definitely reared its ugly head during the Bush years.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...rm=un-american
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Un-American

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Jesus. Did the country go crazy all at once, or did it happen so slowly, we barely noticed it until we were surrounded by nothing but? Has it ever been as bad as this before? Is it a phase? God, I hope it is.
Both, but more prominent after 9/11, when people wanted someone to make them feel safe after they've been "violated". Much like a home break-in or burglary. their peace and sanctity of home was compromised. But it took them YEARS to realize that they gave up freedoms for their safety; just as we've seen by some posters in this thread.

Quote:
I don't think even the 60's were this bad. I obviously didn't live through that era, but from my perspective, it felt like a struggle to do what was right. Now, it's like an underlying sickness in the country that's effecting us all. It might be me looking at history through rose tinted glasses, but...
No.. it isn't just you. It just took them a long time to see that they were wrong, but didn't put the blame where it is properly due. That isn't saying that the NSA or Obama gets a pass, but that this started well and truly before Obama. People just want a someone to point to and blame. That person always turns out to be the POTUS.

Quote:
...well, we live in interesting times.
We certainly do. I know I've said before that in times like this, New Zealand looks really good around now, but I don't want to deal with the crazies there, plus Kim Dotcom. So for now, I'll make it an even push and say that Guam is looking good.

Quote:
I guess all those people who said we have to do whatever it takes to protect us from the terrorists got exactly what they wanted. I hope it's a bitter pill for them to swallow, too.
yep. Sacrificed their freedoms for safety and security.. look at what we have now.. neither.

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Old Dec 30, 2013, 05:55 PM   #43
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The video below was published today by Jacob Applebaum on the "Dropout Jeep" program.

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Old Dec 30, 2013, 07:50 PM   #44
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MOD NOTE: Please continue discussion in the front page thread:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1690519

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