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Old Jan 5, 2013, 06:23 PM   #26
firedept
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Originally Posted by wrinkster22 View Post
That opened in 1981 correct? Yeah I also have heard good stuff about it. I would like to say privatize privatize privatize but I realize that it needs a lot of money especailly with wheel trans losing 35 bucks a person (but thats another story) The problem is ttc starts wages at $27.50 and they can't be fired, have a grid pay system, and have the golden government pension. Fire them all and automate the h*ll out of the system
Okay. Can't much argue with you on that one. Out here the only kind of people who make that kind of money are oil field or skilled. Pretty good starting wage. Union have there purpose sometimes, but in these situations it is overboard. I am not a union person and never would be, because as you say, it is hard to get rid of bad help when unions protect them. Pensions is a whole other issue. I am totally against them. I have been saving my whole working life for my pension. Why should anyone be just handed one? By the way, I am enjoying the conversation.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 06:34 PM   #27
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Okay. Can't much argue with you on that one. Out here the only kind of people who make that kind of money are oil field or skilled. Pretty good starting wage. Union have there purpose sometimes, but in these situations it is overboard. I am not a union person and never would be, because as you say, it is hard to get rid of bad help when unions protect them. Pensions is a whole other issue. I am totally against them. I have been saving my whole working life for my pension. Why should anyone be just handed one? By the way, I am enjoying the conversation.
Pretty good? I consider that an excellent wage. I mean what do they do sit on there but and watch people put tokens in a slot and check that people have transfers? I mean they fall asleep sometimes and get paid Unions are literally controlling Ontario with the stupid teachers. Canadian teachers get paid a fortune compared to the American ones- and believe me there are plenty horrible teachers that the union will not fire. Pretty much as long as you don't touch someone you cant get fired. PM me as this will get off topic
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 06:51 PM   #28
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I saw a bunch of people reading, listening to music on earphones, and a couple of people actually talking quietly to one another.

It was HORRIBLE!!!!
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 10:16 AM   #29
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I saw a bunch of people reading, listening to music on earphones, and a couple of people actually talking quietly to one another.

It was HORRIBLE!!!!
This made me lol

I would have pulled the emergency brake!
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 10:18 AM   #30
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I saw a bunch of people reading, listening to music on earphones, and a couple of people actually talking quietly to one another.

It was HORRIBLE!!!!
What civilized transit do you use?
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 01:06 PM   #31
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People who smell of wee. I guess I've been lucky compared to some of these stories!
(the smell was so bad it put me off eating for 6 hours. Good for dieting)
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 02:32 PM   #32
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A crazy guy tried to push me overboard on a Sydney Harbour ferry.

I punched him and he left to pick on someone else - someone who had watched my struggle and did nothing to help. When the crazy guy started picking on New Guy, New Guy started giving me imploring looks. I smiled and waved.
So that makes all three of you uncivilized? At least the "crazy" guy was likely mentally ill.
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 03:06 PM   #33
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Some friends and I just got out of a Red Sox game. Saw a bum take a dump in the corner of the trolley, then wipe with a newspaper and put it in his pocket. We got off at the next stop.
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 03:20 PM   #34
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I haven't ridden public transportation in like 15 years now. I rode the NYC subway and Long Island Railroad for many, many years. I've seen people peeing, ********, jerking off, oral sex, vomiting and naked people. I have also experienced olfactory sensations that may never again be recreated in our lifetimes.

It all about driving for me now. If my fart stinks that bad, at least I can open the damn window.
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 06:05 PM   #35
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Pretty good? I consider that an excellent wage. I mean what do they do sit on there but and watch people put tokens in a slot and check that people have transfers? I mean they fall asleep sometimes and get paid Unions are literally controlling Ontario with the stupid teachers. Canadian teachers get paid a fortune compared to the American ones- and believe me there are plenty horrible teachers that the union will not fire. Pretty much as long as you don't touch someone you cant get fired. PM me as this will get off topic
The cleaners are the worst, if you go to Finch station where they typically have the cleaning crew to clean up trash before it goes back on route you will see how much work they are actually doing to earn their 25+ dollars an hour. They will walk on a train, miss tons of trash and scoop one piece into their bucket and then move off the train to chat with their buddies till the next train comes along. Tax dollars hard at work, I have seen teenagers making minimum wage work harder.
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 06:22 PM   #36
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I saw a bunch of people reading, listening to music on earphones, and a couple of people actually talking quietly to one another.

It was HORRIBLE!!!!
Other than the occasional person that had horrible BO, this was the norm for me while riding the public transit
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 06:34 PM   #37
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So that makes all three of you uncivilized? At least the "crazy" guy was likely mentally ill.
The guy had a hold of me and was pushing me over the railing. If punching him in the stomach to save myself from going overboard is "uncivilised", then yes, I guess I am.

What would a "civilised" man like yourself do? Swim to shore?
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 06:37 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Face Ache View Post
The guy had a hold of me and was pushing me over the railing. If punching him in the stomach to save myself from going overboard is "uncivilised", then yes, I guess I am.

What would a "civilised" man like yourself do? Swim to shore?
I was referring to the fact that you and the other person failed to help each other fend off this guy. Your self-righteous "smile and wave" was rather low.
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 08:06 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Face Ache View Post
The guy had a hold of me and was pushing me over the railing. If punching him in the stomach to save myself from going overboard is "uncivilised", then yes, I guess I am.

What would a "civilised" man like yourself do? Swim to shore?
You should have assisted the other person!

What would you have done if the other person went overboard and was attacked by a shark, or run over by a boat?

That's what I hate about Sydney. Every person for themselves and forget everyone else. It's horrible. mobilehaathi has it right.

But then, modern culture here seems to be breed this kind of behaviour.

Worst I've seen on public transport is the left overs of someone who was sick, all over the floor of the train.
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 08:18 PM   #40
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I was referring to the fact that you and the other person failed to help each other fend off this guy. Your self-righteous "smile and wave" was rather low.
Pfft. If someone else had been in my position first I would have helped. That's not an internet hypothetical - I know I would have helped, because that's how I am. There must have been over fifty people watching my struggle, and not one person raised a finger to help. If the crazy guy tried to push the next guy overboard I would have stepped in, but by that stage he was just yelling about god (in a loud American accent). It terrified his next victim though, which I thought was a rather deserved lesson on civic duty for him (and the other bystanders).

I've given first aid to a seriously injured car accident victim (while other people, who were there first, stood around and watched). I've evacuated a smoke filled apartment block in a fire emergency at 2am, while other people stood around and watched (was called a hero for that). I think I'm quite civilised in my own uncivil way. Probably "self-righteous" too, but that comes with experience and confidence.
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 09:14 PM   #41
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I've been assaulted twice when leaving the TTC by homeless, in broad daylight. Once at College Park, and once in the St. Clair Center. The first guy was in a group of 4 and I think he was just trying to start something by tripping me, and when that didn't work I was able to talk him out of wanting to fight. The second guy I actually had to put hands on and overpower to get him to stop.

Fortunately neither escalated to someone getting hurt.
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So that makes all three of you uncivilized? At least the "crazy" guy was likely mentally ill.
When I was attacked at College Park, there were 4 of them, and I actually heard one bystander remark "oh man, are we gunna get to see a fight?" The St. Clair Center took place on an escalator and while this guy was hurling abuse in my face as I tried to hold him down with one arm, I looked more than one person in the eye and told them to call security or the police. One person helpfully pointed and told me "security is that way man," but nobody did anything. This person worked in a camera and cell phone store and was literally surrounded by telephones.
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 09:20 PM   #42
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Pfft. If someone else had been in my position first I would have helped. That's not an internet hypothetical - I know I would have helped, because that's how I am. There must have been over fifty people watching my struggle, and not one person raised a finger to help. If the crazy guy tried to push the next guy overboard I would have stepped in, but by that stage he was just yelling about god (in a loud American accent). It terrified his next victim though, which I thought was a rather deserved lesson on civic duty for him (and the other bystanders).
You really don't see the twisted hypocrisy here? Oh well.

Quote:
I've given first aid to a seriously injured car accident victim (while other people, who were there first, stood around and watched). I've evacuated a smoke filled apartment block in a fire emergency at 2am, while other people stood around and watched (was called a hero for that). I think I'm quite civilised in my own uncivil way. Probably "self-righteous" too, but that comes with experience and confidence.
You must be very proud of yourself.

----------

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When I was attacked at College Park...<snip>
How awful and depressing.
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 09:31 PM   #43
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You really don't see the twisted hypocrisy here? Oh well.
You must be very proud of yourself.
I'll bet you're a bystander.
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 09:47 PM   #44
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I'll bet you're a bystander.
Surely you could bait me better than that.
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 09:58 PM   #45
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Sheesh, I remember the TTC ~20-25 years ago was really pretty decent. Sad to think it's come to the levels reported in this thread. I used to really love Toronto back in the late 80s.

B
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 10:00 PM   #46
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who needs public transit to see humans at their worst. there are many surveillance videos showing people (now more woman then ever) peeing and pooping in public places. not homeless either. one video of a woman who squats in the middle of a convenience store isle pulls her panties aside and goes for it while texting on her phone.
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 10:29 PM   #47
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How awful and depressing.
Indeed. I also find it off-putting that when I share this story with people I know, many of them ask why I, having done a lot of boxing, didn't just knock him out. Because I find violence to be appalling, and it wasn't necessary?

I guess the moral of the story is that people are dicks, and that while it's nice to believe that people will rise to the occasion, you'll usually be disappointed.
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Sheesh, I remember the TTC ~20-25 years ago was really pretty decent. Sad to think it's come to the levels reported in this thread. I used to really love Toronto back in the late 80s.
I love Toronto. Not so much the TTC. I've heard it said that they're effectively running at 1970 operating capacity. It's the least subsidized major transit system in all of North America with an intransigent union with an institutionalized disdain for customers, and nobody at a city, provincial or federal level has any kind of vision for it. As it stands, I always walk my parter to or home from stations after dark, and I think that's a very sad indictment of what should be a world class system.
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 10:40 PM   #48
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who needs public transit to see humans at their worst.
It seems that on average people behind the wheel in the "privacy" of their own vehicle are far less tolerant and decent to others on the road than those who use mass transit are to one another. I've driven, biked and bussed regularly and for years in a handful of large cities in the USA and by far those using personal autos have more animosity and entitlement than any group in almost any other aspect of society.
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 10:44 PM   #49
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It seems that on average people behind the wheel in the "privacy" of their own vehicle are far less tolerant and decent to others on the road than those who use mass transit are to one another. I've driven, biked and bussed regularly and for years in a handful of large cities in the USA and by far those using personal autos have more animosity and entitlement than any group in almost any other aspect of society.
I think there is something to this. I was once chastised by a driver in Miami for being a pedestrian. He was quite angry.
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