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View Poll Results: Who's Fault is the Government shutdown ?
Republican 102 65.81%
Democrat 9 5.81%
President 15 9.68%
Congress 29 18.71%
Voters: 155. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Oct 18, 2013, 03:23 PM   #351
VulchR
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Originally Posted by elistan View Post
Yup, he certainly signed into law a budget that had a surplus.

Just makes the increase of the debt under his watch that much worse, though.

To show the lead-up to that surplus, here are the Clinton numbers:

1997 -21.9
1998 69.3
1999 125.6
2000 236.2
Kinda makes you wonder why we didn't bank the surplus in a sovereign fund for harder times. Oh wait....
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Old Oct 18, 2013, 03:29 PM   #352
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Kinda makes you wonder why we didn't bank the surplus in a sovereign fund for harder times. Oh wait....
The republican led congress decided it was best to spend that surplus on tax breaks and war.

just saying'

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Old Oct 18, 2013, 03:54 PM   #353
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Damn that Credit Card is on FIRE!!!!!!

Quote:
U.S. debt jumped a record $328 billion on Thursday, the first day the federal government was able to borrow money under the deal President Obama and Congress sealed this week.
The debt now equals $17.075 trillion, according to figures the Treasury Department posted online on Friday.


Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...#ixzz2i6p7VrsW
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter


----------

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Originally Posted by Peace View Post
The republican led congress decided it was best to spend that surplus on tax breaks and war.

just saying'

And this guy is spending it on failed energy companies and pet projects.
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Old Oct 18, 2013, 04:19 PM   #354
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And this guy is spending it on failed energy companies and pet projects.
Cost of the Bush tax cuts - $1.6 trillion (estimate from Congress's Joint Committee on Taxation when the cuts were proposed. I cannot find any unbiased hindsight look at the cuts.)

Cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars - $2.4 trillion by 2017 (again, hard to get unbiased numbers, but that's an estimate from the CBO in 2007.)

Total - $4.0 trillion.

Cost of the loan to Solyndra - $0.000535 trillion.
Cost of the ACA - to be determined.
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Old Oct 18, 2013, 04:28 PM   #355
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Damn that Credit Card is on FIRE!!!!!!
With all those exclamation points I would expect you are as well.

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...And this guy is spending it on failed energy companies and pet projects.
It's worth noting that the entire cost of the Department of Energy loan to Solyndra was $535 million.

Meanwhile, the US Air Force spent $1.6 billion buying cargo planes from an Italian aerospace company that are currently mothballed.
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Old Oct 18, 2013, 04:46 PM   #356
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Damn that Credit Card is on FIRE
After using extraordinary measures to avoid hitting the debt ceiling they are obviously going to have to undo that...
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Old Oct 18, 2013, 05:02 PM   #357
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Damn that Credit Card is on FIRE!!!!!!
I'm pretty sure that is just making up for the extraordinary measures that were used to keep us from going into a shutdown and defaulting earlier, we won't see that rate keep going.
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Old Oct 19, 2013, 09:51 AM   #358
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Originally Posted by Peace View Post
The republican led congress decided it was best to spend that surplus on tax breaks and war.

just saying'

Actually I was getting at the point that putting money into banks wasn't exactly safe....
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Old Oct 19, 2013, 10:16 AM   #359
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Originally Posted by elistan View Post
Cost of the Bush tax cuts - $1.6 trillion (estimate from Congress's Joint Committee on Taxation when the cuts were proposed. I cannot find any unbiased hindsight look at the cuts.)

Cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars - $2.4 trillion by 2017 (again, hard to get unbiased numbers, but that's an estimate from the CBO in 2007.)

Total - $4.0 trillion.

Cost of the loan to Solyndra - $0.000535 trillion.
Cost of the ACA - to be determined.
If Obama continued the wars and the tax cuts you can't put the entire bill in Bush's lap.

Also why did they give government employees back pay for staying at home?
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Old Oct 19, 2013, 10:34 AM   #360
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If Obama continued the wars and the tax cuts you can't put the entire bill in Bush's lap.
I'll agree partly.

Obama's handling of Iraq and Afghanistan has been a great disappointment to this liberal. I remember at the very beginning of his administration how he adopted the exact same language as Bush to talk about the conflicts, and I thought that was a terribly wasted opportunity to reframe the issue and resolve it more quickly.

The tax cuts on the other hand and please correct me if I'm wrong require the consent of the House and Senate. Obama cannot simply end them by himself. So he cannot be blamed solely for them being in place.
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Old Oct 19, 2013, 12:08 PM   #361
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Originally Posted by Zombie Acorn View Post
If Obama continued the wars and the tax cuts you can't put the entire bill in Bush's lap.
I wasn't trying to. The context of the discussion is about surpluses and deficits. I was pointing out that edk99's example of excessive government spending, Solyndra, is negligible comparatively - 0.01% as much as the tax cuts and wars Peace mentioned that edk99 was responding to.

Quote:
Also why did they give government employees back pay for staying at home?
Trying to improve their image, I assume.
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Old Oct 19, 2013, 12:27 PM   #362
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Also why did they give government employees back pay for staying at home?
It's part of the central contradiction of the strategy. The point was to deliver enough pain to force compliance, that would cut expenses. But for every pain point generated, there was effort on both sides to reduce it. Without enough pain, neither side gave in. And the whole exercise ended up costing more than it saved.

Hopefully the workers were able to make cash on the side or at least get some rest. They've now got full inboxes to catch up on and projects to restart.
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Old Oct 19, 2013, 12:44 PM   #363
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I heard on the radio last night that Standard and Poor's estimates the hit to the U.S. economy of the shutdown to be $24B. That is about 1/3 of the total yearly cost of the SNAP program.

In case someone wants a reference, I Googled that for you.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind...rnment_sh.html

Quote:
Overall, the shutdown cost the U.S. economy $24 billion, according to Beth Ann Bovino, an economist at Standard & Poor's. That's why she's cut her forecast for growth in the October-December quarter to a 2.4 percent annual rate from an earlier estimate of 3 percent. Other economists have also downgraded their outlooks.
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Old Oct 19, 2013, 12:51 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by jnpy!$4g3cwk View Post
I heard on the radio last night that Standard and Poor's estimates the hit to the U.S. economy of the shutdown to be $24B. That is about 1/3 of the total yearly cost of the SNAP program.

In case someone wants a reference, I Googled that for you.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind...rnment_sh.html
I guarantee that in the upcoming midterm elections Republicans point to slow economic growth as a reason to vote out the Democrats.

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Old Oct 19, 2013, 06:31 PM   #365
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I guarantee that in the upcoming midterm elections Republicans point to slow economic growth as a reason to vote out the Democrats.

And sadly given how gerrymandered the districts are it'll probably work. Although at the same time if the republicans who are moderate relative to the tea party lose primaries to crazier people from the tea party then I think that there is a chance that even with the gerrymandering the Dems can pick up seats in Republican districts
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Old Oct 20, 2013, 02:19 AM   #366
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Obama's handling of Iraq and Afghanistan has been a great disappointment to this liberal. I remember at the very beginning of his administration how he adopted the exact same language as Bush to talk about the conflicts, and I thought that was a terribly wasted opportunity to reframe the issue and resolve it more quickly.
I think Obama has pushed pretty hard to get out of Iraq and Afghanistan. It would have been hard to get out more quickly.

At the same time though Bush's surge worked well in Iraq.
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Old Oct 20, 2013, 05:49 AM   #367
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At the same time though Bush's surge worked well in Iraq.
In what way? Have you been keeping up with the news lately?
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Old Oct 20, 2013, 06:03 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by Eraserhead View Post

At the same time though Bush's surge worked well in Iraq.
Complete disbelief at this comment, just because the US left, the news hasn't stopped. The US destabilised the country to the point of anarchy, and then pulled out, mostly because they and the UK couldn't win it.
Like Vietnam.

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In what way? Have you been keeping up with the news lately?
Talk about blinkered vision.

I know the total anarchy in the country, but the US is out so most western news is directed else where.
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Old Oct 20, 2013, 06:39 AM   #369
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The US destabilised the country to the point of anarchy, and then pulled out, mostly because they and the UK couldn't win it.
Like Vietnam.
Hey, we may have done a lot of crap, but Vietnam wasn't part of it.
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Old Oct 20, 2013, 07:10 AM   #370
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Hey, we may have done a lot of crap, but Vietnam wasn't part of it.
Yes I do know that, the UK stayed out because Harold Wilson for all his faults called that one RIGHT.
I was meaning that like Vietnam war, when the US found that it really couldn't win, the US decided to Vietnamese the war and then pulled out.
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Old Oct 20, 2013, 09:50 AM   #371
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In what way? Have you been keeping up with the news lately?
The same [or similar] thing is bound to happen in Afghanistan after the U.S. pulls out. There is nothing to be gained by continuing the occupation, and it's been a bitter disappointment to know that Obama was behind much of it.
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