Any chance apple would ever make an apple pro gaming machine?

[davelanger]

Is there ever any chance APPLE would ever make an apple pro gaming machine for around $1500-2000?

It would basically be a pro but without all the cores, it could be for people who want more power than the imac but dont want to shell out over $3000 for a pro.

It would also be for people that want a good apple gaming machine that could boot into windows to game and also keep osx for everything else.

I think making a mac that is $1500 that is powerful for gaming would also get more people to buy macs.

[alust2013]

Would it be nice? yes. Would it be smart? most likely. Would apple make enough profit on it to actually make it? sadly, no.

[ovrlrd]

So basically like the G4 Cube but with more upgradability? Yeah it will never happen.

[davelanger]

Originally Posted by alust2013

Would it be nice? yes. Would it be smart? most likely. Would apple make enough profit on it to actually make it? sadly, no.

Would apple really lose that much money if they made a tower that was an i5 or i7 that could run osx with apples quality?

I don't under stand how you can build a pc for $800 that would be just as powerful as a $2300 mac pro.

I am sure a lot of people would love to run osx on a gaming rig that was under $1500 they could actually game on that isnt an imac, because those IMO are not very good because you cant upgrade them.

They should just take the imac specs and make it a tower so you can upgrade it. Im sure the price could even come down if the monitor was not built in.

For example have a mac tower that would be 3.60GHz Intel Core i5 where you can upgrade the RAM and graphics card.
It could easily go for around $1000-1200 without the monitor built in, dont you think?

Then maybe for $1500 let it come back with better graphics card and an i7 GPU?

Maybe its just wishful thinking on my part and maybe that is why apple makes the imacs so cheap because if you want to upgrade you have to buy a whole new unit

[Ravich]

In order for it to be successful in the eyes of Apple, it would need to run games effectively on OSX, which doesnt look very likely in the near future. Aside from the fact that PC gaming is going down the tube thanks to piracy, anyone who games seriously on an Apple machine does it through bootcamp.

[alust2013]

Originally Posted by davelanger

Would apple really lose that much money if they made a tower that was an i5 or i7 that could run osx with apples quality?

I don't under stand how you can build a pc for $800 that would be just as powerful as a $2300 mac pro.

I am sure a lot of people would love to run osx on a gaming rig that was under $1500 they could actually game on that isnt an imac, because those IMO are not very good because you cant upgrade them.

They should just take the imac specs and make it a tower so you can upgrade it. Im sure the price could even come down if the monitor was not built in.

No, they really wouldn't lose money at all. They would still make a pile, and that is a brilliant idea. However, they wouldn't want it to step on the iMac's toes, which could be a problem if they use the same specs. Apple just makes kinda weird business decisions, but they know they can do it and still make an arseload of money.

[davelanger]

Originally Posted by Ravich

In order for it to be successful in the eyes of Apple, it would need to run games effectively on OSX, which doesnt look very likely in the near future. Aside from the fact that PC gaming is going down the tube thanks to piracy, anyone who games seriously on an Apple machine does it through bootcamp.

The reason why games dont run on osx effectively is because apple does not build their computers for gaming. And if you try to you end up spending $3000 or more, which for that price you could get a top of the line gaming pc.

If apple had a gaming line of macs, they could easily make the specs run well for gaming on osx. They could even make them the price of alienware computers in the range of $1200-3000 and still make a ton of money.

It seems Apple caters to everyone but gaming fans. If apple would make their computers run games better more companies would make their games run on osx

Apple is really missing out on the gaming crowd, they cater to everyone else.
The moms and dads with the imacs, the college kids and students with the macbooks, the video editors, graphic arts etc etc with the mac pros but there is one glaring omission, the gaming crowd.

They could (for a price) even have windows preinstalled on their gaming machines until gaming companies start making games for osx.
It would at least give gaming fans a chance to see osx in action when they are not gaming

[VirtualRain]

Originally Posted by davelanger

Is there ever any chance APPLE would ever make an apple pro gaming machine for around $1500-2000?

No. PC gaming is a dying market who's best days are behind it.

A more appropriate question might be... Is there ever any chance APPLE would ever make a iOS gaming console?

[CountlovE]

Originally Posted by VirtualRain

No. PC gaming is a dying market who's best days are behind it.

A more appropriate question might be... Is there ever any chance APPLE would ever make a iOS gaming console?

You are totally clueless with that comment. Obviously you don't play games.

[Ryan P]

Originally Posted by CountlovE

You are totally clueless with that comment. Obviously you don't play games.

I play games and I am clueless as to why you think he is clueless.

Apple has, in many ways, entered the gaming market with the iPhone and the iPad. It is not hard to imagine, that with future Apple TV products, enhanced iPads, or with an actual console device Apple could one day end up being in competition with consoles.

I agree that PC Gaming is on a downward trajectory. Shame. Personally, I prefer the interaction of a keyboard/mouse.

[CountlovE]

Originally Posted by Ryan P

I play games and I am clueless as to why you think he is clueless.

Apple has, in many ways, entered the gaming market with the iPhone and the iPad. It is not hard to imagine, that with future Apple TV products, enhanced iPads, or with an actual console device Apple could one day end up being in competition with consoles.

I agree that PC Gaming is on a downward trajectory. Shame. Personally, I prefer the interaction of a keyboard/mouse.

PC will never be downward because it is always on for forefront of computing. You can't be the most advanced system for more than 6 months before something better comes out. I don't call Ipad/iphone4 the future of gaming.

[flyingphish]

Rain is right. I've been pc gaming since the 90's and it's future is not so bright...

I play a lot of counterstrike and call of duty...neither has changed much in 10 years

At least cod black ops will have dedicated servers again.

And as for gaming on a macpro, all it takes is money. Don't have it? Buy a pc.

[Hellhammer]

There is the quad core Mac Pro already. I can't see why Apple would offer similar setup for 1000$ less. This "xMac" discussion has been beaten to death. It would anyway be more expensive than a PC and have more limited upgradeability.

[ovrlrd]

Originally Posted by Hellhammer

This "xMac" discussion has been beaten to death

This I can definitely agree with. It's obvious that Apple has a very good reason for not offering this kind of computer. That really won't change anytime soon (if ever).

[Giuly]

Originally Posted by davelanger

Is there ever any chance APPLE would ever make an apple pro gaming machine for around $1500-2000?

It would basically be a pro but without all the cores, it could be for people who want more power than the imac but dont want to shell out over $3000 for a pro.

It would also be for people that want a good apple gaming machine that could boot into windows to game and also keep osx for everything else.

I think making a mac that is $1500 that is powerful for gaming would also get more people to buy macs.

Quad core Xeon basically = i7, costs the same. I guess that answers your question.

If you would build it any cheaper, you would end up with an i5 and i3, but it would be more expensive than an i3 or i5 iMac. You would need another motherboard with another socket, means another factory line, means more cost for Apple, because nobody would buy that. Teh l33t g4m0rz will still cry out that you pay $1200 too much when it gets sold for $1500, and the current Apple-users which were interested in such a machine will more likely get an iMac, because it contains a $1000 screen with a $800 i7 computer at $2200. Get an iMac, a Radeon HD 5750 should be sufficient anyways. i3 with 4-way SLI doesn't make sense, IMHO.
This whole "but the MacPro is more extensible" is BS, because the only way you can use PCIe on a Mac is by adding graphics or RAID - or SATA, USB and FireWire ports. There are no Soundblasters, video capture cards or what ever you would put in a PC. PCI on a Mac got replaced by FireWire, not by PCIe and USB like they did on PCs. SATA-HDDs can be daisy-chained on FW800, ya' know, and the internal bay of an iMac can hold 1 3.5" 3TB hard drive plus an SSD. Instead of the optical drive, you can do a little modding and add an eSATA-port to the iMac, where you can hook up your RAID0+1 or what ever. SATA for DVD-Drives is overkill, a $15 USB 2.0 enclosure will do just as well.

If you care about FPS in Windows games, build a Windows machine. A Mac is a boat in the Mississippi Delta, maybe slower than a car, but it gets you faster from A to B. What you want is a sports car. Don't buy a boat if you care about MPH.
You want a Mercedes ALK (i5) when there is only SLK (4+6 core) and SL (8+12 core), but a Volkswagen Eos (overclocked i7 PC) is more fun with more power for less money than the CLK (iMac minus the display) costs - but they don't do SLK nor SL.
And so on, and so forth…

[Shademaster]

I'll have to chime in on the gaming on PC part.

I have an 08 MacPro with a flashed 4890, a week ago I bought an almost top of the line PC hoping it would provide me with ultimate gaming bliss, core i7 930 OC'ed to 4Ghz, 12 GBRam and a nice and shiny Asus 5970.

Only to find out there are only like 6 directx 11 titles worth playing. My Xbox360 costs half of that 5970 card and I have too many games to choose from.

+ I get some horrible driver issues with the ATI card .

Should have stayed with my macpro.

This will be my last game machine man, it is consoles from then on.

[ovrlrd]

Originally Posted by Shademaster

I'll have to chime in on the gaming on PC part.

I have an 08 MacPro with a flashed 4890, a week ago I bought an almost top of the line PC hoping it would provide me with ultimate gaming bliss, core i7 930 OC'ed to 4Ghz, 12 GBRam and a nice and shiny Asus 5970.

Only to find out there are only like 6 directx 11 titles worth playing. My Xbox360 costs half of that 5970 card and I have too many games to choose from.

+ I get some horrible driver issues with the ATI card .

Should have stayed with my macpro.

This will be my last game machine man, it is consoles from then on.

I gave up on gaming on Windows because it is way too much hassle, even without the driver issues Windows sucks. I still play games on my Mac Pro in OS X, although there isn't that many games really. I hope that changes though with Steam now being out for OS X. Love playing TF2, and L4D is coming out soon! A lot of my gaming is done on my PS3 and Wii though.

[HHarm]

Originally Posted by flyingphish

Rain is right. I've been pc gaming since the 90's and it's future is not so bright...

That's what's been said for the last 10 years. At this point and with the success of mmorpg's, rts's and Sims - it's getting a bit old. This fall you have for example Starcraft II and Civilization V. Also most of the PS3 and XO multiplatform releases are getting a PC port.

[goMac]

It would be nice if they sold an i7 Mac pro. They could probably sell it around the $1200 mark.

That said, the Mac Pro is a workstation, and for a workstation, it's at a very good price point. I hate these Mac Pro vs. custom build i7 comparisons. They aren't the same class of machines. It's like comparing a Honda Civic to a pickup truck, and then talking about how the Civic is cheaper than the pickup truck and it can haul the same number of passengers. That's great and all, but i7's have a lot of weaknesses, namely you can't get them in dual processor configurations.

[Hellhammer]

Originally Posted by goMac

It would be nice if they sold an i7 Mac pro. They could probably sell it around the $1200 mark.

Core i7 costs as much as Xeon 3xxx series, the only difference is that Xeon supports ECC memory. For example, i7-930 costs 294$ and W3530 costs 294$ as well, both run at 2.8GHz

That said, the Mac Pro is a workstation, and for a workstation, it's at a very good price point.

Not that long ago, I configured a Dell workstation with similar specs as base Mac Pro and it was over 1000$ cheaper. And yes, that was with Xeon and workstation GPU, while Apple does not even offer workstation GPUs. DP Mac Pro is well priced as it was more from Dell but the SP Mac Pro is horribly overpriced.

That's great and all, but i7's have a lot of weaknesses, namely you can't get them in dual processor configurations.

Nor can all Xeons. Only 5xxx series can be used in dual CPU configurations. As I said, 3xxx series is just i7 with ECC support. 5xxx series is already a lot more expensive due dual QPI

i7 wouldn't drop the price by much, maybe 100$ because non-ECC RAM is cheaper than ECC.

[Cindori]

the reason Apple will not go desktop gaming:

gaming people want upgradeability, alot
macs work so well because they are a closed system

mixing the two would bring
1. alot of hate because apple is not offering the 100+ gpu's the PC does
2. an unstable osx experience


conclusion: wont happen


if iTV gets iOS then there you have your gaming machine.

[NickCG]

Originally Posted by Ryan P

I play games and I am clueless as to why you think he is clueless.

Apple has, in many ways, entered the gaming market with the iPhone and the iPad. It is not hard to imagine, that with future Apple TV products, enhanced iPads, or with an actual console device Apple could one day end up being in competition with consoles.

I agree that PC Gaming is on a downward trajectory. Shame. Personally, I prefer the interaction of a keyboard/mouse.

Originally Posted by flyingphish

Rain is right. I've been pc gaming since the 90's and it's future is not so bright...

I play a lot of counterstrike and call of duty...neither has changed much in 10 years

At least cod black ops will have dedicated servers again.

And as for gaming on a macpro, all it takes is money. Don't have it? Buy a pc.

I am a semi-pro gamer, and you are both equally clueless.

Semi-pro, and pro gamers want a keyboard and mouse (and some us want a good speed-pad) and their input controllers, and never a slow-but-fancy touch screen.
eSports is taking off massively, getting bigger year upon year, and like kids grow up wanting to be like their favourite sports stars, gamers aspire to be like their pro's. I can't see any "pro" tournaments being held on an iPad, like, ever.

Handheld gaming, like console gaming has it's entertainment, and it's place, but it is indirect competition with PC gaming - as the "core" user-base is vastly different.

The iPad is a huge threat to the handheld and interactive console (Nintendo Wii, etc) markets though. Nintendo identified Apple as the biggest threat to their domination of the interactive console/handheld markets recently, while also declaring the war over sony to be won. Nintendo also declared PC gaming as a different ball game, yet again. It is not the same consumer-group that they are aiming their products at.


And, finally, I've noticed 90% of PC gamers who believe it's on the way out are FPS (First Person Shooter) gamers. Maybe, your just bored with a stale genre of games? RTS, RPG and MMO gaming is still rising hugely, year upon year. FPS is kinda static on user levels.
Personally, I got bored of FPS's over 7 years ago, they are all too similar. I buy them, enjoy the single player - but spend very few hours playing them online.

Check out the new Star Wars MMO from Bioware, maybe their is enough shooting in that to wet your appetite, as it's shaping up to be one hell of a good game. A game sure to rake in user levels of well over 1M.



As for the OP original question. I'd love to see one, and I think their is money to be made with the amount of users switching over to Mac's.. However, Apple is Apple - I can't see them openly entering the market with a gaming machine at this time. I think if they were to enter the gaming market, they would only want to in an OS X capacity - and not windows - and they don't have a high enough market share for that.
As of right now, too-many smaller game designers/publishers find no profits (or losses) in modifying/enabling their games for OS X. That would be the limiting factor.

[300D]

Originally Posted by VirtualRain

No. PC gaming is a dying market who's best days are behind it.

What cave have you been living in?

Even the crap-o $300 PCs have more CPU and graphical power than the iPhone and iPad.

[Pressure]

It might not be that far off considering the Mac OS X 10.6.5 beta already includes drivers for these - not yet released - graphic cards:

Radeon Northern Islands Unknown Prototype
Radeon Cayman Unknown Prototype
Radeon Cayman GL PRO Prototype
Radeon Cayman GL XT Prototype
Radeon Caicos Unknown Prototype
Radeon Seymour LP Prototype
Radeon Seymour PRO/XT Prototype
Radeon Caicos PRO Prototype
Radeon Turks Unknown Prototype
Radeon Whistler PRO/LP Prototype
Radeon Whistler XT Prototype
Radeon Turks PRO Prototype
Radeon Turks XT Prototype
Radeon Barts Unknown Prototype
Radeon Blackcomb LP Prototype
Radeon Blackcomb XT/PRO Prototype
Radeon Barts PRO Prototype
Radeon Barts XT Prototype
Radeon Park LP Prototype

But who am I kidding, this is the xMac discussion again...

[Hellhammer]

Originally Posted by Pressure

It might not be that far off considering the Mac OS X 10.6.5 beta already includes drivers for these - not yet released - graphic cards:



But who am I kidding, this is the xMac discussion again...

Not doubting your reliability but would you have a link to an article that you got your information from?