Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Apple Hardware > Apple TV and Home Theater

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Sep 5, 2010, 12:37 PM   #1
dmm219
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
My old ATV never looked so good!

Of all the rancor and complaining about the new ATV...something weird has happened for me...I am actually RELIEVED that I am lucky enough to have the old ATVs.

I have no desire for ATV2 and I agree with others that its 3 steps backwards and 1 step forwards (price).

However, anyone else notice that this is typical apple behavior when they have lost vision for their products? Apple has great vision for some of their products and with those, you'll notice value is always enhanced...never decreased. Iphone has continually got more compelling since its release. Apple hasn't stripped it of anything. The same can be said for the Ipod Touch and most Macs as well as OSX.

But then there's apple's island of misfit toys...

You realize, the same rancor that is occurring here with ATV is also occurring over in the Ipod Nano forums. Another product apple has lost vision for. One time around it has a camera, one time it has a touch screen, one time is has a radio, one time it has a clickwheel, one time it has a mic...apple continues to add/subtract features from the nano, just like the ATV because they honestly have no idea what to do with them. They are simply throwing things at the wall, trying to find out what sticks. The ipod shuffle when through this last year with the buttonless version. The backlash for that was swift and severe. The same will most likely be the case with both the nano and ATV this time around.

Wait a year or two...Jobs calling ATV a hobby STILL was NOT a good sign. Apple still has no idea what to do in the living room...they completely lack vision there.

We will either end up with ATV2 for another 4 years with minimal updates as it continues to sell poorly, or it will get canned all together.

Either way, man am I happy to have my first gen ATVs at this point...never thought they would look so good!

(I also still love my 1st gen nano and wouldn't trade it for any of the others...)

Apple is their own company and they can make and sell whatever they want...the truth is in the pudding (sales)...if they don't release ATV2 sales numbers (just like ATV1 and the macbook air)...you can be sure its flopping...
dmm219 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Sep 5, 2010, 12:41 PM   #2
Doc750
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Exclamation

I hope (and think) your wrong. Can't wait for mine to show up!
__________________
Current apple products:MPB 17, ACD 27, MBA 13, iPad2
Replaced iPhone 4S with Note 2
Replaced ATV2 with Roku 2 XS
Doc750 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Sep 5, 2010, 12:48 PM   #3
TheBritishBloke
macrumors 68030
 
TheBritishBloke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Oh well.. If it sucks, oh no, I've still got a very good product for just $99.
TheBritishBloke is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Sep 5, 2010, 03:10 PM   #4
ctakim
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
I wouldn't say Apple has lost their vision, I would say that their vision for where they want to go with this device is different from where you want it to go. And I am also not saying that any one vision is the correct one, either!
ctakim is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Sep 5, 2010, 03:32 PM   #5
jaw04005
macrumors 601
 
jaw04005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: AR
Yawn.

When I read posts like this it makes me think of the numerous “Apple has lost its way" threads about the original iPod, the iPhone and the iPad.

The new Apple TV has pissed off the geeks who wanted 1080p playback, larger storage options and PC-like customization.

Knowing Apple’s history, that means the new Apple TV will probably be a major hit within its market.
jaw04005 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Sep 5, 2010, 03:40 PM   #6
dextertangocci
macrumors 68000
 
dextertangocci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Send a message via Skype™ to dextertangocci
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaw04005 View Post
Yawn.

When I read posts like this it makes me think of the numerous “Apple has lost its way" threads about the original iPod, the iPhone and the iPad.

The new Apple TV has pissed off the geeks who wanted 1080p playback, larger storage options and PC-like customization.

Knowing Apple’s history, that means the new Apple TV will probably be a major hit within its market.
True. There will always be complaints about every product any company releases. I'm sure there will be plenty of people that will buy the new Apple TV, but if you don't like it, don't buy it
dextertangocci is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Sep 5, 2010, 03:55 PM   #7
ipedro
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Toronto, ON
^ exactly. I've never understood why people complain to no end that a certain Apple device doesn't do everything for them. If you don't like the product, why are you even still talking about it? There are other products that might suit you better.
__________________
iMac 27" i7 | MacBook Pro 17" 2009 | iPhone5 | iPad Air | tv | Time Capsule
ipedro is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Sep 5, 2010, 03:59 PM   #8
OllyW
Moderator
 
OllyW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Black Country, England
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBritishBloke View Post
Oh well.. If it sucks, oh no, I've still got a very good product for just $99.
How are you getting it for only £64 in the UK?
__________________
Some Apple stuff
Some other stuff
https://soundcloud.com/disco-tramps
OllyW is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Sep 5, 2010, 04:08 PM   #9
BornAgainMac
macrumors 601
 
BornAgainMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Florida Resident
I like my current Apple TV but I don't think the new one is that bad. There wasn't a hard drive that can hold my collection so by depending on streaming to cut the cost makes sense. I stream on mine all the time and never purchase movies on it directly.
BornAgainMac is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Sep 5, 2010, 04:24 PM   #10
jaw04005
macrumors 601
 
jaw04005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: AR
Quote:
Originally Posted by dextertangocci View Post
True. There will always be complaints about every product any company releases. I'm sure there will be plenty of people that will buy the new Apple TV, but if you don't like it, don't buy it
Complaining is one thing. Customer feedback is how Apple improves products for the next revision. Without customer feedback, we would still be stuck with the 3rd generation iPod nano and shuffle.

Extreme “Apple has lost its way” posts that promise “swift and severe” customer backlash are another thing entirely.

Life is too short.
jaw04005 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Sep 5, 2010, 05:36 PM   #11
Flynnstone
macrumors 65816
 
Flynnstone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cold beer land
I just ordered a new AppleTV.
The original ATV could support 1080p TVs, correct?
Now movie rentals are 720p24, same new and old.
What about slide shows from iphoto? is the old ATV better than the new?
__________________
"You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems." - Einstein
New iMac 24"/G5 1.8/...
Flynnstone is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Sep 5, 2010, 05:45 PM   #12
iPhone1
macrumors Demi-God
 
iPhone1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Honolulu, HI
I'm keeping my old ATV to use Boxee and play kids shows that my daughter watches without having to rent them every time. Obviously it has been awhile since Steve Jobs raised a kid.

I did order the new one for Netflix and TV rentals alone. Seems silly that the devices will share the same name but totally different uses.
iPhone1 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Sep 5, 2010, 08:36 PM   #13
jaw04005
macrumors 601
 
jaw04005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: AR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flynnstone View Post
I just ordered a new AppleTV.
The original ATV could support 1080p TVs, correct?
Now movie rentals are 720p24, same new and old.
What about slide shows from iphoto? is the old ATV better than the new?
Yes, it will support 1080p HDTVs. There’s a setting to upscale everything to 1080p. You just can’t playback 1080p video (at the moment).

Movie rentals should be the same, 720p24. Not sure if they plan on bumping the bit rate though.

Photos have been updated to support events and faces from within the Photos module. Also, new slide show transitions like origami, reflections, random, etc have been added.
jaw04005 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Sep 5, 2010, 10:19 PM   #14
duffsrp
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Carlsbad
I'm looking forward to seeing how the new atv works. But I'd love to try to get some of the new features (netflix) working on my original ATV. you think that will be possible with a hack? Not sure what the tech specs are on the original versus the new one.
duffsrp is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Sep 5, 2010, 11:12 PM   #15
carlgo
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctakim View Post
I wouldn't say Apple has lost their vision, I would say that their vision for where they want to go with this device is different from where you want it to go. And I am also not saying that any one vision is the correct one, either!
Yup, you can't accuse them of being unfocused. Apple's focus is narrow and concentrated on what they think is important, and they disregard all else.

This can be puzzling to many of us at times, but Apple's vision has been mighty successful.
carlgo is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Sep 6, 2010, 01:19 AM   #16
fidelityrevo
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Let Apple do their own PR - Criticize if they need it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaw04005 View Post
Yes, it will support 1080p HDTVs. There’s a setting to upscale everything to 1080p. You just can’t playback 1080p video (at the moment).
.
That's the point, it doesn't support native 1080p PLAY. Upscaling is underutilization. The new Apple TV may still be a worthwhile product, but lets not sugar coat what is happening. The fact is that Apple is great at marketing products, and extracting the most profit from them. Apple TV is designed to get control of the content market.

I find it annoying that people will cover for Apple and say, "If you don't like the product, why are you even still talking about it? There are other products that might suit you better. " It's just fronting for a company that doesn't need defense. The ATV product is in someways less capable. Why not complain in an intelligent way about it. I'm sure someone at Apple is paying attention. They are all about money, and customer satisfaction has made them very rich.

I appreciate the comments of people who analyse and say, "I am actually RELIEVED that I am lucky enough to have the old ATVs. " It means they are thinking, not just adoring Apple products. It's nice to be satisfied, but it's better to be satisfied and have a reason that's very clear for it, not just a "praise be Apple" response.

I think the new Apple TV might be a good addition to say an older series 2 Tivo, so you don't have to fork over 500 for a new one to get Netflicks, youtube and other movie access. The downside is it sucks power and isn't so very capable like a new Tivo premier. I think the TIVO premier sounds better but is too expensive to replace a very good Tivo series II that I currently have. HD video is way overrated. 12 feet away you can't tell one from the other. Even closer it doesn't make much difference. It's the big screen that counts. The difference between 480 i, 720P, 1080P, its all marketing crap. They all look pretty similar, and 480i looks fine to me. It sure isn't worth $500 more to me to get the higher resolutions, especially fake upscaled resolutions. I like the critical posts of Apple products (if they are fair), I may agree or disagree, but at least I've thought about it before I bought it, it might save me the money while I wait for the next version, or perhaps get Boxee instead. We all need to be a bit wary, even of Apple. They are increasingly acting like a monopoly and that isn't really good. Unfortunately they are the best game in town for computers.

Apple is increasingly trying to lock down platforms and control the content. An example is the Apps store for the iphone. It is restricted. Another example is you can't use your ipod to transfer songs between computers very easily. Another example is you can't wirelessly download mp3s to your iphone from say a radio station's website, you have to do that by a USB wire. I hope that some version of an Android slate gets developed that is open and keeps Apple honest. If we don't criticize and demand more from them, they'll screw us just like all the other corporations try to do.

I worry that it 20 years there will be an epidemic of iphone induced brain cancer from the cell phones (and maybe wifi) and they will be the "big tobacco" of the cell phone industry. Pushing Apple to do better is a good thing. Maybe if we do they'll change the SARs output of those phones.

Last edited by fidelityrevo; Sep 6, 2010 at 01:23 AM. Reason: To fill in a few missing words.
fidelityrevo is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Sep 6, 2010, 01:59 AM   #17
MowingDevil
macrumors 68000
 
MowingDevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC & Sydney, NSW
I think people are being a tad harsh at the OP and any criticism of Apple's products. Jobs brings it on himself when he says Apple won't get into a market like the netbook unless they can revolutionize it and do something different...thus the iPad.

So please, tell me how is the new TV revolutionary or even really different or special? There was an opening to do something remarkable there and it didn't have to be 1080p although that would have made sense. My conspiracy theory on that is it is the studios that are holding Apple back and not bandwidth issues. Like the record labels they are paranoid and don't trust new technology that removes "control" from them ie distribution. But I digress, just by adding iOS and an App Store Apple could have blown the competition out of the water w/ this thing. The floodgates would have been wide open and by Christmas Apple could have had the hottest gaming platform out there w/ this unit. Who knows where it could have gone from there...perhaps they were concerned it would take over that niche from the iPad?

What makes the TV so special? It seems to me its capable of WAY more and most likely has the components to do so....but is being blocked from fulfilling its potential. I think its great to have a unit that ties in all your home entertainment components w/ the Mac....that was afterall Jobs' vision back in the day....that the Mac would be the core of it all. Why then they relegate the TV to a hobby and neglect it so is beyond me. The potential is there...
__________________
iMac 17", 1.83Ghz Core 2 Duo MacBook Pro 15", 2.53Ghz, 320GB@7200 PRODUCT (RED) iPod Nano 8Gb
MowingDevil is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Sep 6, 2010, 08:08 AM   #18
tomscott1988
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
I agree with the op to a certain extent. I dont think apple has lost its way i just think that it is hitting its head against a brick wall in terms of content. Its not like an ipod, although there are hundreds of music lables, people will buy and listen over and over to the cds (mp3 form) making them good value for money.

This is why 95% of labels have gone with the itunes franchise. Whereas tv and movies is a much bigger bite to chew. Say if you have sky you have the option of recording your shows, thousands of channels. Most mainstream tv channels have there own playback websight so you can 'catch up'. Also the sale of dvd's of favorite shows and them airing for free. How many of these series do people actualy re-watch. Say if you bort the whole 8 series of 24 you would spend about £120. I think i would watch it maybe 2-3 times through, if you look at it like that then it doesnt seem great value per watch, where as music you will listen to your favorite albums thousands of times.

Then you have the competition hundreds of recordable set top devises, tivo and other remakes of the same thing. You also have to look at the pricing of these shows 99p for each show, £25 a series when you could use catch up to view them or tune in or have it pre-recorded. There is also the problem of the millions of tv channels all having to agree on a price when they are all greedy and sell there content in multiple versions.

Everyone has there own preference on how they like to watch tv/movies. Whereas 90% of people want all there music in one devise they can plug it into multiple things and listen to it. Simple! Its not quite so simple with movies/tv.

This gets me on to my next point. I agree with the op about the previous ATV simply because i dont see why i should have to have two devises on at the same time using twice as much electric to do the same thing, its not like you can say use your desktop while your watching tv.. because mine are in different rooms. It also means you have to turn ur comp on to use it and turn it off when your done! In my opinion it made more sence having the storage... just a pain syncing it! but thats just my opinion. I wouldn't buy one just to stream.
__________________
2x2.8ghz Mac Pro, 4tb, 10gb, 285gtx; Unibody Macbook 2.4ghz, 2gb, 500gb; iMac 2.4ghz; Powermac G4 dual 1.25, 1.02tb, 2gb; iPhone 3Gs 16gb; Apple Tv 160gb; iPod 80gb.
tomscott1988 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Sep 6, 2010, 10:34 AM   #19
jaw04005
macrumors 601
 
jaw04005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: AR
Quote:
Originally Posted by MowingDevil View Post
What makes the TV so special? It seems to me its capable of WAY more and most likely has the components to do so....but is being blocked from fulfilling its potential.
The price point makes it special. It's now competing with devices like the Roku. So, for $99 you can access your complete iTunes library (movies, TV shows, audiobooks, iTunes U, photos, etc), Netflix's streaming library, the iTunes Store including movie and TV show rentals, audio and video podcasts, YouTube, Flickr and Mobile Me. That's a lot of content you can access from a $99 box.

Besides Apple has long-term plans for this device. No one has really mentioned this but Jobs discussed an Apple TV App Store in his interview with Bloomberg.

From Bloomberg,

“Even Jobs concedes the device is mainly for tech hobbyists, and most of the Sept. 1 event was dedicated to the revelation of a new line of iPods and a social networking feature that works within iTunes. What Jobs didn't say is that Apple wants to become king of the living room. He tells Bloomberg Businessweek that when the time is right, Apple could open an App Store for the TV that could do for television sets what all those apps have done for the iPhone. Asked if the iPad could evolve into the TV of tomorrow, Jobs shrugs and says, 'That's how I do most of my TV watching today.'



Still, the timing for such an evolution isn't upon us, Jobs says.”

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...4030216774.htm

This current model is a first step. At WWDC, they'll probably open AirPlay up to App developers and hopefully announce an App Store for the Apple TV.

Jobs didn't say he hoped the Apple TV would someday become Apple's fourth leg of a four-legged stool for nothing.

If Apple can get 5-10 million new Apple TV's into homes in 1-year as just an iPhone, iPod touch, iPad and iTunes accessory, they'll have much more market clout when they try to negotiate with CBS, Fox, NBC, etc.

Maybe next year they'll be able to get at least ABC and FOX to sign-on to an iTunes subscription service (as they originally tried to do this Spring).

At least something is now moving with the Apple TV. Whereas, it sat dormant for years. People tend to forget that it took years for the iPhone to get where it is now. You can't just recreate that kind of success overnight.
jaw04005 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Sep 6, 2010, 02:29 PM   #20
MowingDevil
macrumors 68000
 
MowingDevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC & Sydney, NSW
Personally I'm predicting they'll bring purchasing back w/ a software update as soon as cloud based iTunes is ready. If they get the TV app store running then suddenly this device makes alot more sense and becomes very powerful. How can you add Apps without storage though? Cloud based Apps?
__________________
iMac 17", 1.83Ghz Core 2 Duo MacBook Pro 15", 2.53Ghz, 320GB@7200 PRODUCT (RED) iPod Nano 8Gb
MowingDevil is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Sep 6, 2010, 03:02 PM   #21
ipedro
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Toronto, ON
Quote:
Originally Posted by MowingDevil View Post
Personally I'm predicting they'll bring purchasing back w/ a software update as soon as cloud based iTunes is ready. If they get the TV app store running then suddenly this device makes alot more sense and becomes very powerful. How can you add Apps without storage though? Cloud based Apps?
I too think that purchases will come back, if only for the fact that the TV rental model is only a trial. It's been said that FOX only agreed to 4 months of this model. If that is the case, then Apple will be in a really bad spot if they shipped millions of tv boxes and TV shows are suddenly completely unavailable because purchases can't be made via tv for lack of local storage.

In that scenario, Apple will have to do one of the following:

1 - Introduce an iTunes cloud where purchases are made on the cloud, and streamed from there when you want to watch them.

2 - Update tv software to enable purchases. When you buy a movie or tv show, it streams normally as if it were a rental, but also adds it to your Download queue on iTunes.

Regarding Apps on your TV, I recommend you read this theory:

tv: How AirPlay will brings Apps to your TV
__________________
iMac 27" i7 | MacBook Pro 17" 2009 | iPhone5 | iPad Air | tv | Time Capsule
ipedro is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > Apple Hardware > Apple TV and Home Theater

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Looked everywhere! Anyone have this wallpaper? snarestud940 UI Customization 7 May 1, 2013 10:37 PM
For air play mirroring, is there any difference between ATV 2 vs ATV 3? Whackintosh Apple TV and Home Theater 4 Feb 28, 2013 10:01 PM
what the iPhone 5 should have looked like !! timmy toad iPhone 15 Oct 11, 2012 12:15 PM
Last Gen looked better? OSMac iPhone 39 Sep 23, 2012 06:06 AM
phones: This is how the S3 should have looked (altering my S3) Mac.World Alternatives to iOS and iOS Devices 39 Aug 20, 2012 10:05 PM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:52 AM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC