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Old Jan 6, 2011, 07:16 PM   #101
nanofrog
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Originally Posted by Icaras View Post
Just a heads up on another note-worthy review for the adaptive PFC series by CyberPower. Tom's Hardware actually did a pretty thorough run-down comparison just last November, between the CP1500PFCLCD and other popular enterprise class units such as the APC SMT1500 and ended up giving the CyberPower their "2010 recommended buy". Please note however, this was a comparison for best value in the enthusiast market.
Thanks for the link.

If only looking at new, the lower cost of the CyberPower unit will look attractive (agree why they rated it as they did due to the cost/performance ratio), but when you consider the refurbished market, it falls flat. Better units (enterprise grade) and longer run times for around the same money (at least here in the US; not so sure about other markets).
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Old Jan 9, 2011, 10:51 AM   #102
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Thanks for the link.

If only looking at new, the lower cost of the CyberPower unit will look attractive (agree why they rated it as they did due to the cost/performance ratio), but when you consider the refurbished market, it falls flat. Better units (enterprise grade) and longer run times for around the same money (at least here in the US; not so sure about other markets).
What units would these be? I'm looking for long-lasting quality UPS, so if a refurb or enterprise grade are available that would beat CyberPower, be great to hear... thanks.
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Old Jan 9, 2011, 12:46 PM   #103
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What units would these be? I'm looking for long-lasting quality UPS, so if a refurb or enterprise grade are available that would beat CyberPower, be great to hear... thanks.
APC's are the most common, and come in different sizes and types.

For example, Pure Sinewave Line Interactive:
SUA1500
SMT1500

There are others however, and even different brands (currently available models in APC's SmartUPS line from upsforless.com - good company to deal with).

Online/Double Conversion types (always runs off of the inverter - pure sine wave output):
SUA1500XL
SURTA1500XL

Others too, such as rack mount versions (example is SURTA1500RMXL) if you're willing to keep your options a little broader. Also Tripp Lite and Eaton make good units, but the batteries tend to cost more (why APC is preferred in the refurbished market).

Just keep looking, as these are harder to find.
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Old Feb 6, 2011, 05:22 PM   #104
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Are these refurb APC pure sine units considerably louder than this CyberPower model? Anyone have experience with both?
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Old Feb 6, 2011, 08:03 PM   #105
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Are these refurb APC pure sine units considerably louder than this CyberPower model? Anyone have experience with both?
I don't need experience to tell you that YES, APC pure sine wave units will be louder than these CP models, as evidenced by repeated forum discussions across the net.

How louder? That I can't say, but I know that my CP unit doesn't dare make a peep until the battery kicks in, which is very modest to say the least.

Both heat and noise were a very important issue when deciding between the CP units and pure sine wave units and I'm very happy that these don't' make a sound. Been several months now that I've had this and I'm still happy about the purchase.
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Last edited by Icaras; Feb 6, 2011 at 08:08 PM.
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Old Feb 6, 2011, 08:56 PM   #106
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Are these refurb APC pure sine units considerably louder than this CyberPower model? Anyone have experience with both?
Pure sine wave inverters produce more heat, so they need greater airflow to keep them cool (tend to use larger fans than stepped units, so lower rpm can move as much or more air). But even stepped units get loud, as the fans tend to be smaller (small fans at high rpm tend to be quite noticeable). Either way, there's noise. Personally, I find the stepped inverter units louder, but that may just be me.

Now how often you'll have to deal with this (whatever the dB level of the unit is), will depend on the type of unit. Pure Sine wave inverters are used in both Line Interactive (switches to the battery + inverter when needed; they're not used otherwise = no fan running) or Online/Double Conversion (always runs off of the inverter and batteries).

The load can matter as well, as the fans may run on a profile (speed ramps up or down, depending on the inverter's temp) rather than just on or off (what the original SMT series firmware did).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icaras View Post
I don't need experience to tell you that YES, APC pure sine wave units will be louder than these CP models, as evidenced by repeated forum discussions across the net.
You have to pay attention to the type (see above).

Now there have been complaints on the SMT1500 (or others in that series), but APC's released a firmware update to take care of that (changed from on/off to a profile). It's a Line Interactive unit, so the inverter only runs when the wall voltage has dipped below what the stepped transformer can deal with or gone to zero. Most of the time, the system is powered off of the wall, not the inverter, so the fan's not running.

Online/Double Conversion units do run all the time, as the inverter is always active (it may shut off, but only if the load is very low, such as a router or ISP modem). The larger fans help though for tower based units. Rackmounts OTOH, aren't meant for quiet environments such as an office or home to begin with (expected to be stored in an equipment room full of racks and the necessary sound proofing and ventilation systems).

The CP unit is also a Line Interactive unit, so the same thing that unit does, the APC or other brands of the same type (Line Interactive, ...) will react the same way (fan will only kick in when the inverter goes active).
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Old Feb 7, 2011, 01:57 AM   #107
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Something to be aware of when you are using any UPS is that for the vast majority of the time when power from the wall socket is "normal", most models will be very quiet indeed. My APC SMT1000I sits there quietly making the occasional faint little clicking noise to itself (which you have to listen for in a quiet room). Yes, when charging, on load or testing the battery, I am sure all models will be much louder but those will be the exception to the normal quiet operation for any UPS.
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Old Feb 7, 2011, 12:11 PM   #108
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I don't need experience to tell you that YES, APC pure sine wave units will be louder than these CP models, as evidenced by repeated forum discussions across the net.
My APC pure sinewave unit is silent unless it's running on battery.
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Old Feb 7, 2011, 12:27 PM   #109
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My APC pure sinewave unit is silent unless it's running on battery.
mine are also dead silent until a blackout.

I then power the pro down safely.
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Old Feb 7, 2011, 02:23 PM   #110
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I stand corrected then. I had forgotten about the firmware update that APC had released.

As i recall, they were previously many complaints about the fan noise, but glad to know these run silent now
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Old Apr 27, 2011, 04:30 AM   #111
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Is the jury still out on these units?!?

So ... I've read the entire thread, and am wondering ... is this a viable unit for our power-gobbling Mac Pros or not? Is the jury still out? Dell's Small Business Unit just ran out of them, but before they did they were selling them for US $169.99 - quite the bargain compared to APC's $450 (roughly) units.
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Old Apr 27, 2011, 09:12 AM   #112
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So ... I've read the entire thread, and am wondering ... is this a viable unit for our power-gobbling Mac Pros or not? Is the jury still out? Dell's Small Business Unit just ran out of them, but before they did they were selling them for US $169.99 - quite the bargain compared to APC's $450 (roughly) units.
I'd say the jury's still out.

I don't have an issue with the concept (PWM controlled inverter), but my hesitancy is based on experience with other units made by CyberPower, which were junk.

BTW, check the other thread you've posted in for some alternative ideas (more on the thinking as per which unit to go for from what's currently available to you).
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Old Apr 27, 2011, 05:42 PM   #113
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I'd say the jury's still out.

I don't have an issue with the concept (PWM controlled inverter), but my hesitancy is based on experience with other units made by CyberPower, which were junk.

BTW, check the other thread you've posted in for some alternative ideas (more on the thinking as per which unit to go for from what's currently available to you).
I hate to say it, but I've had the same experience at work with CyberPower units. We gave up on getting cheap units and have stuck with SmartUPS. You can get some very nice deals on refurbs at refurbups.com (I've bought several units from them as well as batteries). I've been 'into' UPS's for many years (I know, I know)... I bought up a number of old Powerware Prestige units... talk about an amazing UPS. They are pure Sine...and fully ONLINE ups, no switching latency etc. Amazing build quality. But, they are old, fairly noisy idle and generally not USB. I still have several deployed with new batteries, still great units.

Anyway, on the CP unit, hopefully the quality is much higher on this Pure Sinewave unit. Makes sense that it would be.
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Old Apr 27, 2011, 07:28 PM   #114
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I hate to say it, but I've had the same experience at work with CyberPower units. We gave up on getting cheap units and have stuck with SmartUPS. You can get some very nice deals on refurbs at refurbups.com (I've bought several units from them as well as batteries). I've been 'into' UPS's for many years (I know, I know)... I bought up a number of old Powerware Prestige units... talk about an amazing UPS. They are pure Sine...and fully ONLINE ups, no switching latency etc. Amazing build quality. But, they are old, fairly noisy idle and generally not USB. I still have several deployed with new batteries, still great units.

Anyway, on the CP unit, hopefully the quality is much higher on this Pure Sinewave unit. Makes sense that it would be.
The model in question doesn't use a sine wave inverter (not tried CP's sine inverters either based on the stepped unit build quality , and I can get refurbished units from better known companies such as APC, TrippLite, and Eaton that have a history and I know work).

So I've opted to skip out on CP's other lines so far (not willing to risk data loss due to a questionable UPS).
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Old Apr 27, 2011, 09:06 PM   #115
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The model in question doesn't use a sine wave inverter (not tried CP's sine inverters either based on the stepped unit build quality , and I can get refurbished units from better known companies such as APC, TrippLite, and Eaton that have a history and I know work).

So I've opted to skip out on CP's other lines so far (not willing to risk data loss due to a questionable UPS).
So true, hard to justify the risk when we can get SmartUPS 750's for $110 and 1000's for $149 or even less.
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Old Apr 28, 2011, 03:47 AM   #116
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Quote:
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So true, hard to justify the risk when we can get SmartUPS 750's for $110 and 1000's for $149 or even less.
... except that neither of those are suitable for use with Mac Pros ...
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Old May 4, 2011, 08:15 AM   #117
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Just bought a refurb SMT1500 from Tech For Less ...

... for only US $315.17 (including slow boat shipping):

APC Smart-UPS SMT1500 SMT1500 External UPS - AC 120V

Down to 3 left, better get in on it fast
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Old May 4, 2011, 04:41 PM   #118
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... for only US $315.17 (including slow boat shipping):

APC Smart-UPS SMT1500 SMT1500 External UPS - AC 120V

Down to 3 left, better get in on it fast
Thanks for the heads up! As a side note, they have them on their web site too, and the shipping calculated at $14 less than the eBay shipping price (for my location).

I'm ordering one from their web site. I've wanted a pure-sine SmartUPS for my MP since I got it and that's a great price. 1.5 KVA ought to be enough!

Will report back on how the transaction goes. $301.79 shipped.
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Old May 4, 2011, 04:45 PM   #119
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My refurbished APC unit from excessups.com is performing wonderfully. 250$ for a 1500VA TLV unit
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Old May 4, 2011, 05:04 PM   #120
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My refurbished APC unit from excessups.com is performing wonderfully. 250$ for a 1500VA TLV unit
That's awesome, can't beat the price!! I'm looking forward to getting the unit. I've read that older firmware revisions tend to have loud fans but APC will provide customers with a firmware update that resolves the issue.
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Old May 4, 2011, 05:10 PM   #121
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For me the fan has never started up unless it is running off of battery power. It's completely silent otherwise.
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Old May 4, 2011, 05:13 PM   #122
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For me the fan has never started up unless it is running off of battery power. It's completely silent otherwise.
B-E-A-utiful... thanks for the feedback!
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Old May 4, 2011, 05:15 PM   #123
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By the way, I dont know if you've ordered yet, but what I did was place the order in my cart, and upon seeing the 60$ shipping charge I held off. They sent me an email a couple of days later inquiring as to why I didnt follow through with the purchase. When I explained it was the shipping cost, they offered me free shipping.
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Old May 4, 2011, 05:19 PM   #124
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By the way, I dont know if you've ordered yet, but what I did was place the order in my cart, and upon seeing the 60$ shipping charge I held off. They sent me an email a couple of days later inquiring as to why I didnt follow through with the purchase. When I explained it was the shipping cost, they offered me free shipping.
No doubt?!? Well, I did already place the order, but the shipping was pretty reasonable at $24.
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Old May 9, 2011, 11:00 PM   #125
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Thinking of buying a CP1500PFCLCD. Do 2011 27" iMacs use Active PFC power supplies?
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