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Old Oct 25, 2010, 03:35 AM   #1
BetaHal
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Angry Lion, a toy for kiddies?

I've been following the news on the new OSX version, 10.7 Lion, and I'm feeling sadly let down by the lack of news on technical advances for this version. As a user of demanding apps, I expected to see some progress on taking full advantage of 8 or more core systems, CUDA support for OSX, and a compromise to support further developement of the professional apps that the Apple platform has been known for: Final Cut, (Avid) ProTools, and other tools of the trade.

Instead, with Lion Apple is launching a massive marketing operation that apparently tries to sell me a bit of eye candy and lots of new apps that I don't need and I won't use for my work.

If you're working professionally with Mac computers, let me ask you this: do you feel (as I do) that Apple will let us power users down with this new OSX release?

Last edited by BetaHal; Oct 25, 2010 at 04:00 AM. Reason: Typos
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Old Oct 25, 2010, 03:50 AM   #2
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It was only announced a few days ago. Wait until the third-party developers start giving their feedback on builds and you'll get a bit more technical info.

Honestly, the Internet has made everyone so impatient
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Old Oct 25, 2010, 03:53 AM   #3
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It was just a sneak-peek for God's sake!
In a setting such as the Back To The Mac keynote, the target is the general public having interest for macs. It would be totally boring and out of place to rave about the internal technical aspects of the OS.
Soon enough, developers will be seeded the betas and then we'll know more about the beast.
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Old Oct 25, 2010, 06:17 AM   #4
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Do you also complain about the lack of character development in movie trailers?

Wait 'till WWDC, and then you'll have more info...
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Old Oct 25, 2010, 06:22 AM   #5
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You saw what, 10 minutes of it? Making any assessment like that, or even a very positive assessment, is silly.

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Do you also complain about the lack of character development in movie trailers?

Wait 'till WWDC, and then you'll have more info...
This sums it up nicely. Well done sir.
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Old Oct 25, 2010, 11:37 AM   #6
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Do you also complain about the lack of character development in movie trailers?

Wait 'till WWDC, and then you'll have more info...
Nope, but I can tell from a trailer if a movie is going to be good or bad. And Lion, to an old and experienced OSX user like me, smells definitely of rotten tomatoes!

Last edited by MacDawg; Oct 25, 2010 at 02:46 PM. Reason: Removed insult
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Old Oct 25, 2010, 11:43 AM   #7
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The groundwork has been lain by Snow Leopard advanced CPU optimization features. These will find further implementation in Lion for sure.
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Old Oct 25, 2010, 11:47 AM   #8
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I realize Snow Leopard was an "under the hood" update. However, it seems everyone wants revolution with the upgrades. Lion is a step toward a unified OS/iOS that will be occuring over the next 5 or so years. You will hold in you hand the power of your desktop someday. Adapt or die (and in the meantime, if the upgrade isn't worth it to you, skip it).
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Old Oct 25, 2010, 12:03 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by eawmp1 View Post
I realize Snow Leopard was an "under the hood" update. However, it seems everyone wants revolution with the upgrades. Lion is a step toward a unified OS/iOS that will be occuring over the next 5 or so years. You will hold in you hand the power of your desktop someday. Adapt or die (and in the meantime, if the upgrade isn't worth it to you, skip it).
Agreed, the power of mobile devices at the moment has exceeded the Tech we was using in our computers a few years ago. I remember having a 300mhz cpu with 32mb or ram and 400mb of hdd space now i can carry more than that in my pocket.

So who knows, maybe the OSX and IOS appstore will be the same one day. This will allow me to download software to me pc and also use it on a mobile device.

I know ARM architecture and x86 are programmed differently, but you can always emulate, you got to use that 21 core cpu for something right lol.

Or the appstore could just allow us to run the apps in the cloud...
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Old Oct 25, 2010, 12:07 PM   #10
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I am sure that there will be quite a bit of technical advancement that simply is still in development or wasn't the type of thing to spotlight at this event. Considering that 10.6 was the first release of OS X to not really implement any new eye candy features, and was marketed as a "under the hood" release, they probably wanted to show off some of the "features" rather than focus on performance related items at this point in time. We are still 9 months out from release.
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Old Oct 25, 2010, 01:48 PM   #11
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I wonder how Lion will affect deployments in academic lab environments. We have several Macs in our labs here and it seems Lion is focusing on consumer features (App Store? Built into the OS? Seriously??) and this feels like the "toyification" of the OS.

I really hope I'm overreacting. I'd hate to see this be the end of the OS X platform as we knew it, and the beginning of Macs REALLY being "toys".

It's ironic because for years before OS X, many geeks made fun of Macs for being "toys" lacking the power and customizability of "real computers". OS X did a lot to shed this image, by using UNIX at the core and finally making the Mac a solid platform. And now it seems Apple is wanting to turn the Mac back into a toy again.

Sigh.
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Old Oct 25, 2010, 02:24 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BetaHal View Post
I've been following the news on the new OSX version, 10.7 Lion, and I'm feeling sadly let down by the lack of news on technical advances for this version. As a user of demanding apps, I expected to see some progress on taking full advantage of 8 or more core systems, CUDA support for OSX, and a compromise to support further developement of the professional apps that the Apple platform has been known for: Final Cut, (Avid) ProTools, and other tools of the trade.

Instead, with Lion Apple is launching a massive marketing operation that apparently tries to sell me a bit of eye candy and lots of new apps that I don't need and I won't use for my work.

If you're working professionally with Mac computers, let me ask you this: do you feel (as I do) that Apple will let us power users down with this new OSX release?
The fanboys will attack you, but it's clear that apple has become an idevice company.
The days of caring about its serious computer users is history.
FCP has become outdated and they push it further back.
Once they turn OSX into a mickey mouse OS the final reason for using macs instead of pcs will evaporate.
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Old Oct 25, 2010, 02:31 PM   #13
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Wait, so because its not a massive leap feature wise (that we know of yet) it somehow regresses past old versions of OSX and is now a toy?

My god some people don't even live in reality anymore do they?
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Old Oct 25, 2010, 02:38 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by zorinlynx View Post
I wonder how Lion will affect deployments in academic lab environments. We have several Macs in our labs here and it seems Lion is focusing on consumer features (App Store? Built into the OS? Seriously??) and this feels like the "toyification" of the OS.

I really hope I'm overreacting. I'd hate to see this be the end of the OS X platform as we knew it, and the beginning of Macs REALLY being "toys".

It's ironic because for years before OS X, many geeks made fun of Macs for being "toys" lacking the power and customizability of "real computers". OS X did a lot to shed this image, by using UNIX at the core and finally making the Mac a solid platform. And now it seems Apple is wanting to turn the Mac back into a toy again.

Sigh.
I really wish Microsoft would develop Office for Linux or BSD.
What are my options now: going back to Windows or sitting it out on Snow Leopard
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Old Oct 25, 2010, 04:49 PM   #15
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Big eye roll.

First, did any of you listen to what Tim Cook said? Macs represent 33% (that's one third) of their revenue. Were their Mac division a separate company, it would be number 110 on the Fortune 500 list.

You were given a glimpse of eye candy features which is appropriate for an event such as that. WWDC will give you the technical stuff you want.
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Old Oct 25, 2010, 05:03 PM   #16
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Did you not hear Steve? Back to the Mac, they were showing features tooken from ios.
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Old Oct 26, 2010, 02:53 AM   #17
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Wait, people are seriously upset that it's now easier to find apps for their computers? And that we finally get a way to organize our apps? So if something is easier, it's therefore a toy? No wonder non-computer people look at us like we're crazy.

So long as it's still just as easy to get "non-approved" software as it is now, then I'll be happy.
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Old Oct 26, 2010, 03:00 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdowns View Post
WWDC will give you the technical stuff you want.


Name: WWDC 2011
Calendar: Conferences
When: Mon, June 6, 2011 - Fri, June 10, 2011
Description:

Tentative dates for WWDC 2011, not yet confirmed by Apple Inc.


Hey, rdowns, man! Wouldn't that be a boring, long wait? When I ask for tech info is because it's crucial for my everyday job, and also for those non-technical but professional users who take advantage of the platform. Having easy software is cool, but providing a productive environment is better!

Last edited by BetaHal; Oct 26, 2010 at 03:12 AM.
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Old Oct 26, 2010, 03:44 AM   #19
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Hey, rdowns, man! Wouldn't that be a boring, long wait? When I ask for tech info is because it's crucial for my everyday job, and also for those non-technical but professional users who take advantage of the platform. Having easy software is cool, but providing a productive environment is better!
10.6 still works...
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Old Oct 26, 2010, 07:06 AM   #20
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I'm underwhelmed by 10.7.

Even in movie trailers they tend to show off the best or biggest stuff to hook you. If apple has more changes to be done in 10.7, they better quickly add it, if they want to make the summer 11 date.

Given that they really didn't mention some big things, possibly means they'll not be in there at all.

I mean take resolution independence, something that we've been clamoring for years for, a file system replacement, something that cannot be introduced without LOTS of advanced warning and testing. Increased security, like folder encryption, etc etc.

when apple previewed OSX in the past they mentioned a lot more things that were updated, so just saying its a preview and an incomplete preview doesn't seem to fly.

I do think we'll see some small stuff added into OSX, but what they showed off is basically a near feature complete OS.
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Old Oct 26, 2010, 07:24 AM   #21
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resolution independence and a complete new/modern file system are monumental changes, something that spans several releases. you're more likely to see them as options in mac os server, only showing up in mac os with the next release.

if you think about app resume, a complete reworking of window manager, replacing exposé, dashboard and spaces with a unified task manager (this is different from the window manager), this is all pretty big stuff as well. after the spring cleaning that was snow leopard, they are making the first changes to the very core of the mac system and thought process since multi finder.

i think it's more a testament to how easy apple makes this stuff look.
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Old Oct 26, 2010, 12:14 PM   #22
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And, apart from my previous rant on productivity, there's another thing I would like to talk about. I've always thought of a computer as a tool that I bought to do something I want.

With all that Apps Store thingy, though, I'm having the strong impression that the computer is becoming a shop that Apple places into my home. Not a tool to do do what I want, but a market to sell me books, music, apps and who knows what else. Something that instead of liberating me from straining tasks, is trying to alienate me.

Don't get me wrong , I could get to like some of the new features. But I've got some doubts about this new iStore, iAds? thing. Is Apple trying to sell me a computer, or just trying to sell me to this market? Are we going tho have a serious OS that we can use creatively, or try to do our best moving slowly across the burden of a grocery shop?

Last edited by BetaHal; Oct 27, 2010 at 04:57 AM.
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Old Oct 26, 2010, 01:37 PM   #23
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Quote:
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Blah blah blah... Is Lion a toy... is it going to be ****... will it look like iOS...etc
I don't know, let's just wait and see shall we, before we get all worked up over nothing. For all I know it could be the best thing under the sun. But also, for all I know, it could be the worst OS in history.

It's an OS and it isn't even here yet. Chill. There are better things to be annoyed about.
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Old Oct 26, 2010, 01:40 PM   #24
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resolution independence and a complete new/modern file system are monumental changes, something that spans several releases. you're more likely to see them as options in mac os server, only showing up in mac os with the next release.
Yes those items are monumental changes but yet how many years/releases have we been talking about this. My point is apple is unlikely to add these large changes into 10.7 if they have not previewed it. I also consider unlikely that other major changes/updates will be in there if they did not show it off.

Yes Jobs said there would be more to 10.7 then what was previewed, but I contend that anything that wasn't previewed is probably slotted in the category as nice, small updates, to make life easier.
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Old Oct 30, 2010, 04:42 PM   #25
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Lightbulb

I seriously hope to god Apple come out with something a lot better than this (unnecessary?) "mission control". What's wrong with Expose & Spaces anyway?!

I hope they seriously improve the graphic drivers in Lion as well. Valve and other major game developers are putting time and effort into bringing sweet games to Mac, Apple should start doing the same!

Don't let me down apple! (yn)
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