"With iWork we are building the successor to Appleworks"

[jacg]

Sorry if this is being discussed (to death) elsewhere. SJ was pretty explicit about this - Appleworks is not quite redundent yet, because iWork is only two apps so far. It sounds like this number will grow - spreadsheet, database & drawing by MWSF06?

The integration with iLife and OS X looks great. If Pages is as easy as it looks in the keynote it is going to be great for kids (I'm a teacher). Presumably it will all be bundled with macs instead of Appleworks when the new suite is finished.

Regarding M$ Office, I'm torn. Part of me says "stuff them - 90% of the reason I use a Mac is OS X and Apple software". I'm very fond of Excel and its massive feature set though so part of me wants to see Apple maintain a good relationship with M$. I wonder if Office will co-exsist with a fully-featured iWork in 2006?

[paxtonandrew]

I am going to hang onto M$ Office, even though I have pre-ordered iWork. Because of the lack of a spreadsheet program, I will use it mainly for Excel only. Try them both out, and see which one you like the most, and use that. There is only a little brand rivalry between Apple and m$ when talking Applications.

[wwooden]

All I need is an (updated) version of an excel-type of program to go along with iWork and I can completely take Microsoft Office off my computer, what a great day that would be!

I do have Appleworks, but it is sooo dated now and doesn't have any of the apple flair we are all used to.

[Vanilla]

If they DO create a fully featured alternative to Office then sure, for Apple fans, it will be a breath of fresh air cleaning Microsoft off your system, but the problem will come if Microsoft then pulls Office 2004 permanently.

Like it or not the majority of Apple users need to interact with PC users and that generally means full compatability with .doc, .ppt, .xls formats.

If Microsoft decided it wasnt worth competing and pulled Office 2004 then apart from making potential switchers a lot more wary in making the move, over time there would always be the chance that Microsoft would introduce windows specific format changes that would steadily erode full compatability,which for those of us who work in windows office environments would force us back to PC desktops.

From what I've seen of iWork I love it, I want it and I will buy it. But I am doing so with some nervousness about what the implications are on the relationship with Microsoft.

Vanilla

[maya]

We have had Keynote for over a year now, and M$ PPT still exists and was updated.

The best way to look at this is if PPT standalone sales have dropped when compared to Keynote 1 and now 2.

The next would be Pages and compared it to Word standalone sales, this will only happen in a year or so.

Entourage, well there is Mail and all the other iApps (iCal, etc...).

Excel is the last application to replace.

[Vanilla]

Originally Posted by m a y a

We have had Keynote for over a year now, and M$ PPT still exists and was updated.

Agreed. However my point is that once - and if - Apple fully integrates Word, Presentation and spreadsheet applications THEN you have a true competitor to Office.

We are not there yet, but its getting closer and I am both excited and really concerned about the potential impact of my ability to use my powerbook as my main machine in a predominately windows based working environment, if Microsoft chose eventually to withdraw support for Office 2004.

Still, as I say, come the 22nd I am buying...
Vanilla

[maya]

Originally Posted by Vanilla

Agreed. However my point is that once - and if - Apple fully integrates Word, Presentation and spreadsheet applications THEN you have a true competitor to Office.

We are not there yet, but its getting closer and I am both excited and really concerned about the potential impact of my ability to use my powerbook as my main machine in a predominately windows based working environment, if Microsoft chose eventually to withdraw support for Office 2004.

Still, as I say, come the 22nd I am buying...
Vanilla

All Apple applications consumer or professional take sometime to reach its status quo in the market place.

I see this as no exception.

Apple will most likely move towards open compliance and once that happens M$ Office also has to support it unless they want to be sued again for being called a monopoly.

[Dr. Dastardly]

I really dont need iWork but have been debating just buying it to test it out. Pages looks incrediable and for only $49 with a student discount!

Now if they can just add something like Access and Excel, I will finaly get rid of M$ for good.

[mox358]

I was reading a blog of a mac:Office developer somewhere, and he was talking about the rumors of iWork. (this was right after the rumors began)

He responded by saying something to the tune of Microsoft makes money from Office for Mac. Not billions of dollars, but millions. IE was pulled because MS was making no money, and Apple had a superior product with Safari. As long as MS is making money from Office, it won't be going away. If Microsoft were to drop a major program like Office for Mac that made them millions of dollars, just to piss off apple, they would be in major s*** with their stockholders. Personal feelings aside, MS is a business, and they are in business to make money. The bigger apple gets, the more money will be made for MS by switchers who want to stick with MS programs they know.

Now just back to my opinions, the guy obviously knows what he's talking about, and it makes sense to me. MS is already working on a Service Pack for office 2004 to add Tiger compatibility and new features, and they're also developing a new version of Office, MSN Messenger, and Virtual PC.

just my 2 cents.

[jacg]

I'm interested to see how the compatability works out. I mean transferring back and forth between Office 2004 Mac and Office 2000 PC is problematic enough. We will see I guess (29th Jan here in the UK).

It will certainly help if MS can build some of Apple's funcionality into Office, like an iLife media browser. I don't see Excel being matched feature for feature by 'Cells' or whatever (and it remains to be seen how Pages matches Word - not, I would guess). Having never used Keynote I don't know how you get data in for graphs, etc, but presumably spreadsheet functionality will be part of iWork someday. Build it into Pages?

[Solafaa]

I use MS Office 2004 and i dont see my self using iWorks anytime soon. I might get it and just use it insted of word, my main factor is that i am happy with Office and use it all the time to transfer stuff from apple to windows back to apple and have not had any problems.

If Apple camout with something like Office but more apple then i would use it, just have pages and keynote 2 is not enough. I used to use Apple works when i first got my laptop but its so outdated and not as simple as Office.

[Bear]

Originally Posted by Dr. Dastardly

I really dont need iWork but have been debating just buying it to test it out. Pages looks incrediable and for only $49 with a student discount!

Now if they can just add something like Access and Excel, I will finaly get rid of M$ for good.

The Access replacement may very well be FileMaker. I know that FileMaker is still missing features that it should have, but I believe the FileMaker developers are working on more new features.

And in reality, since Access doesn't exist for the Mac, All Apple needs to do to get a Microsoft Office Replacement is to add a spreadsheet progeam ('Sheets'???) to iWork. And of course probably update Pages to add more features in iWork 06.

[takao]

Originally Posted by Bear

And in reality, since Access doesn't exist for the Mac, All Apple needs to do to get a Microsoft Office Replacement is to add a spreadsheet progeam ('Sheets'???) to iWork. And of course probably update Pages to add more features in iWork 06.

gotta agree i think "sheets" sounds very obvious for the next iWork programm
the missing spreadsheet was holding me back from buying it with my mini.. because if i really use an app very often then it's excel or other spread sheet programs

[IJ Reilly]

Originally Posted by mox358

IE was pulled because MS was making no money, and Apple had a superior product with Safari.

Microsoft wasn't making money on IE before Safari because they gave it away for free. They dropped IE for the Mac at the same time they also stopped offering free-standing IE for Windows.

Anyway, I've seen Pages, and it looks interesting, but I'm not sure if it isn't a bit too complicated to be used as an everyday word processor. I couldn't figure out how to make simple paragraph styles based on other styles, for example. If you don't start with one of Apple's built-in master pages, making one your own appears to be not terribly intuitive.

[solvs]

If they do add "Sheets" and it becomes an Office killer (especially at the right price, ~$100), M$ still has options. They can continue with Office, making it as full featured as it can. They could lower the price (or make it better and lower the price). They can bundle Office for Windows with VPC and force people to use that. But Apple could also release iWork for Windows. Sure, a lot of people would still use Office. It will come bundled with new PCs, and business might still use it just because. But a lot of people would take one look at the price tag, and at least consider it (not that that has worked well for Corel, but it could happen). Bundle it with new HPs and Compaqs, and it could be a hit to M$s pocketbooks.

Like I said, it could happen. Probably won't but who knows.

[mox358]

Originally Posted by IJ Reilly

Microsoft wasn't making money on IE before Safari because they gave it away for free. They dropped IE for the Mac at the same time they also stopped offering free-standing IE for Windows.

True... I forgot about them dropping IE for Windows too. The point I was trying to make was that IE only made them money thru pointing people to MSN and such. After Safari's release, Apple was pointing people to a different set of sites, using a bundled browser - ironically the same trick MS used to get IE to its place in marketshare.

My only meaning to that statement was the little revenue that MS made from IE for Mac was squashed with Safari's release.

Just my 2 cents.

[Diatribe]

Originally Posted by Bear

...
All Apple needs to do to get a Microsoft Office Replacement is to add a spreadsheet progeam ('Sheets'???) to iWork. And of course probably update Pages to add more features in iWork 06.

I thought they had already a trademark for "cell". So it doesn't seem like a spreadsheet app is that far away. I think they could've done it for this iwork too but this would've drawn a lot of Office users to iwork, which Apple doesn't want just yet. We'll see I guess.