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Old Jan 13, 2005, 07:32 PM   #1
Jaime1972
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Exclamation powermac 7200/90 hard disk woe

A bit embarrasing asking this ancient history question but here goes:-

I have a powermac 7200/90 with a broken 500mb hard disk. I bought a Seagate
9.1 gig scsi drive but when starting up from OS9 cd, drive setup tells me its incompatible. I read on the net that the scsi driver needs to be updated to allow the machine to accept hard disks over 2gb........?!?
I can startup from a CD and have a powerbook 1.33 and and emac here which I don't think I can use in any network capacity to solve this problem.....can I?..........
In short, how do I get this drive to work?

Cheers guys!
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Old Jan 13, 2005, 07:50 PM   #2
Mechcozmo
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In the Utilities folder, there should be a drive setup assistant or something that you can use to upgrade the hard drive's firmware. I think that would do it. Not sure if you need to upgrade a SCSI driver in OS 9, however, because OS 9 supported drives larger than 2 GB. Heck, OS 8 did.
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Old Jan 13, 2005, 07:59 PM   #3
Jaime1972
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The update driver option in the menu is "blanked out" so i can't do it! (Because drive not compatible????)
I'm beginning to wonder if the Seagate 9.1Gig Barracuda is simply not compatible!!!
Its the only hard drive attached on the last scsi connector. Seagate support says that termination settings can't be modified and jumpers are not required, so its either this problem of a large HD on the 7200 or something unknown to me. I'm sure I bought it from an ebay Mac dealer so it must be compatible...............

Ta anyway

Last edited by Jaime1972; Jan 14, 2005 at 06:55 PM.
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Old Jan 14, 2005, 06:54 PM   #4
Jaime1972
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another day wasted trying to make it work!
Any more thoughts anyone? I would bin it but i've got a Sonnet g3 card here raring to go!
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Old Jan 14, 2005, 07:51 PM   #5
diamond geezer
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Can you find a more modern Mac to format the drive on, then put it back into your machine?
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Old Jan 15, 2005, 10:59 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamond geezer
Can you find a more modern Mac to format the drive on, then put it back into your machine?
Yes. HFS+ but no Journaling is what you are looking for. However, if you want to use System 7 on it or OS 8 then you must use HFS.

HFS+ is better, but only OS 8.1 and up can use it.
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Old Jan 16, 2005, 07:02 PM   #7
Jaime1972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechcozmo
Yes. HFS+ but no Journaling is what you are looking for. However, if you want to use System 7 on it or OS 8 then you must use HFS.

HFS+ is better, but only OS 8.1 and up can use it.


OK ta. Can you give me an idea of which type of mac I could do it with. I only have easy access to new Powerbooks, emac, powermac Dual 1.25 (ish) and fruity imacs, none of which are suitable I suppose for various reasons. Beige G3 type?
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Old Jan 16, 2005, 07:52 PM   #8
cebritt
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How soon they forget!

You need third party disk formatting software to use that SCSI drive with System 8 or 9. Apple's disk utility only formats Apple drives.

I used FWB's Hard Disk Toolkit and Intech's Hard Disk SpeedTools back then. LaCie had a formatter, too.

Carleton
Austin, Texas
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Old Jan 16, 2005, 08:14 PM   #9
Jaime1972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cebritt
You need third party disk formatting software to use that SCSI drive with System 8 or 9. Apple's disk utility only formats Apple drives.

I used FWB's Hard Disk Toolkit and Intech's Hard Disk SpeedTools back then. LaCie had a formatter, too.

Carleton
Austin, Texas
cheers! Now we're getting somewhere! I actually have FWB disk tools utility version 3.2 BUT this powermac doesn't have a hard drive installed to run the program from. I got another SCSI hard drive Apple 500mb prepared and connected and when I connected the Seagate drive the apple drive became unreadable! They will not work when connected at the same time!!!!!!!
The copy of FWB is on my new powerbook, the program won't work in classic and if I connect the two over ethernet/appletalk, the program won't open on the powermac 7200 (folder error)

Summary:-
1) Find someone with a newer, compatible mac (unlikely up here in the Andalucian mountains!)
2) Find a way to get a 3rd party OS9 disk utility to run from a mac OSX machine across a network (didn't work today)
3) Get the disk utility program ON the OS startup CD ?!?!?!?!?!?!
4) Anything else? thought about trying to run the utility from a USB drive, but I don't think you can access any PCI connected devices when starting from the CD?!?!?!?!?!
5) Give up and open another bottle of Rioja.

PS - Why can the powermac connect to the OSX powerbook across the network, but my powerbook can't even see the powermac?
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Old Jan 16, 2005, 08:22 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaime1972
I got another SCSI hard drive Apple 500mb prepared and connected and when I connected the Seagate drive the apple drive became unreadable! They will not work when connected at the same time!!!!!!!
I know why!

They share the same SCSI ID number. SCSI can support 15 or 16 devices. Make sure that they are not set to the same number, otherwise the computer gets messed up like that. Think like the ATA master/slave thing, but with 15 devices. Fun... Anyway, its easy with just two hard drives like that. Check the CD drive, make sure it is set to whatever number like "4". Then set a hard drive to "5" and the other one to "9". You don't have to use those numbers. Just make sure that none of the numbers are the same. It could be that the CD and other HD are conflicting, or the two HDs are conflicting.
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Old Jan 16, 2005, 08:41 PM   #11
Jaime1972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechcozmo
I know why!

They share the same SCSI ID number. SCSI can support 15 or 16 devices. Make sure that they are not set to the same number, otherwise the computer gets messed up like that. Think like the ATA master/slave thing, but with 15 devices. Fun... Anyway, its easy with just two hard drives like that. Check the CD drive, make sure it is set to whatever number like "4". Then set a hard drive to "5" and the other one to "9". You don't have to use those numbers. Just make sure that none of the numbers are the same. It could be that the CD and other HD are conflicting, or the two HDs are conflicting.


Thanks for the input.

Drive setup said the Apple SCSI drive id was 0 and i
I set the Seagate to 4, the CD drive is 3, floppy drive??????
Maybe I need to fool around with the ID numbers..........
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Old Jan 16, 2005, 08:58 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaime1972
Thanks for the input.

Drive setup said the Apple SCSI drive id was 0 and i
I set the Seagate to 4, the CD drive is 3, floppy drive??????
Maybe I need to fool around with the ID numbers..........
Floppy drives don't use SCSI, hence, no SCSI ID #.
I'd start the boot drive at 0... just because I'm a bit rusty with older Macs... but I don't think you need to do that.
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Old Jan 16, 2005, 10:19 PM   #13
cebritt
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Make a bootable ZIP disk or CD

The SCSI ID of the internal hard drive should be set to zero. Old Macs only supported 7 SCSI devices, 0 through 6. Address 7 was reserved for the Mac itself if I remember correctly. All jumpers off is zero. Don't forget about that voodoo termination stuff. I can't remember if the internal drive needed to have the termination resistor packs removed or not. The last external SCSI drive definitely needs termination.

Your best bet is to make a bootable ZIP disk or CD with the HD formatting software on it. An external ZIP drive is what I used for my clients. I had Norton Disk Doctor and the formatters on a cartridge. In my office, I had an old external chassis that I used to setup new drives. Now that I think about it, the formatting software may actually fit on a diskette.

An even better bet is to junk the 7200 and buy a Mac mini later this month. Anything less than a G3 is a waste of time. I have a stack of retired Quadras, 6100s, and 6200s in my garage waiting for me to haul them off to the Goodwill Computer Store.

Carleton

Last edited by cebritt; Jan 16, 2005 at 10:44 PM.
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Old Jan 17, 2005, 03:32 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cebritt
An even better bet is to junk the 7200 and buy a Mac mini later this month. Anything less than a G3 is a waste of time. I have a stack of retired Quadras, 6100s, and 6200s in my garage waiting for me to haul them off to the Goodwill Computer Store.

Carleton
While I agree with everything else, pre-G3s can still run pre-OS X just fine. They make great grandma computers and you don't need to shell out the money for a new computer.
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