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Old Dec 24, 2010, 10:22 AM   #1
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The Republican Agenda

America's place in the world could play part in 2012 elections USA Today

Summary: Certain Republican's are saying that Obama does not believe the USA is exceptional. While I don't believe that Obama feels this way, I'd have to ask, have we been exceptional in the last 10 years? And are we required to constantly be patting ourselves on the back especially in light of all the (some self imposed) problems we face?

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Obama "has clarified and personified secular socialization and a European view," says former House speaker Newt Gingrich, who is weighing a presidential bid in 2012. Obama, he says, made "disastrous" comments on the subject during his first trip overseas as president in an exchange that has become a cause celebre among conservatives.
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At a news conference in Strasbourg, France, in April 2009, a British reporter had asked the new president whether he subscribed to the idea that the United States is uniquely qualified to lead the world. "I believe in American exceptionalism, just as I suspect that the Brits believe in British exceptionalism and the Greeks believe in Greek exceptionalism," Obama had replied.

That comment — which White House officials say critics have twisted and pulled out of context — led Gingrich, former Alaska governor Sarah Palin and other prominent Republicans to question whether Obama believes that the USA has, by virtue of its heritage, a distinct and extraordinary role in world affairs.
There are those who have an issue with this statement?? Have you ever heard of being diplomatic?
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Old Dec 24, 2010, 10:41 AM   #2
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Well, "America" is certainly special, no doubt.
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Old Dec 24, 2010, 10:46 AM   #3
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Umm...I knew the lunacy was about to start, but really? REALLY?

Dear god- they're probably gonna start again with "Obama's a Kenyan" and a muslim. Why do we have to share this country with so many idiots?
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Old Dec 24, 2010, 10:48 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Huntn View Post
Summary: Certain Republican's are saying that Obama does not believe the USA is exceptional.
Exceptionalism is a form of mental disease, a national narcissism that does not contribute anything positive to the world. It's time "we" embraced humility... for a change.
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Old Dec 24, 2010, 10:50 AM   #5
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Exceptionalism is a form of mental disease, a national narcissism that does not contribute anything positive to the world. It's time "we" embraced humility... for a change.
Exactly. Leadership does not require bellowing "I am great." especially in the face of contrary evidence. Diplomacy requires some level of humility to resonate with the participants you are trying to reach (whether you think you are great or not.)
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Old Dec 24, 2010, 11:22 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by iJohnHenry View Post
Well, "America" is certainly special, no doubt.
A really big bunch of people on the "short bus"?
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Old Dec 24, 2010, 11:34 AM   #7
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A really big bunch of people on the "short bus"?
They had to retire the short bus.
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Old Dec 24, 2010, 01:40 PM   #8
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American exceptionalism is so bad for the country. It's the reason why almost everyone outside of America hates us. And then you have all the jackasses that think America is perfect and doesn't need to change ANYTHING because we're America and we're awesome anyway.


Boo exceptionalism!
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Old Dec 24, 2010, 01:46 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by leekohler View Post
Why do we have to share this country with so many idiots?
That's what makes this country so exceptional!

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Old Mar 15, 2011, 06:17 PM   #10
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Republican's Trying To Shock And Awe Democrats Into Submission- USA Today 15Mar2011.

Attacking Democrat demographics in an effort to diminish Obama's relection chances.

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Republicans are employing a similar "shock and awe" campaign. The pre-emptive strikes the GOP is launching aren't so much a direct attack on Obama as they are intended to destroy the base of his support before the 2012 presidential race begins.
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Old Mar 15, 2011, 06:28 PM   #11
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I suggest everyone read the book "Imagined Communities"


Nationalism is a lie.

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Old Mar 15, 2011, 06:33 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by leekohler View Post
Umm...I knew the lunacy was about to start, but really? REALLY?

Dear god- they're probably gonna start again with "Obama's a Kenyan" and a muslim. Why do we have to share this country with so many idiots?
What he said.
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Old Mar 15, 2011, 06:59 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by AhmedFaisal View Post
Exceptionalism is only another word for nationalism which comes dangerously close to fascism. So Mr. Gingrich thinks it's America's unique role to "lead" the world.... hmmmmmm....... another man in another time thought that as well.... we know what that ended up leading to.....

I guess those Bush adboards in the midwest I saw in 2004 that called him "Our Leader" were not just an honest mistake either.....
Cheers,

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Mr Gingrich is an evil unprincipled, philandering, hypocritical blowhard. Why is it that the Greedy Old Party is full of psychos like him, Sarah Palin, and most scary, Michelle Bachman? If you want to guarantee the failure of this country elect more like these. Could this be a foreign plot to undermine the country??
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Old Mar 15, 2011, 07:11 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Huntn View Post
Mr Gingrich is an evil unprincipled, philandering, hypocritical blowhard. Why is it that the Greedy Old Party is full of psychos like him, Sarah Palin, and most scary, Michelle Bachman? If you want to guarantee the failure of this country elect more like these. Could this be a foreign plot to undermine the country??
Not foreign, domestic. Are you familiar with Grover Norquist? His kind have been lobbying, for decades, for policies that will "shrink government until it it small enough to drown in the bathtub." The failure of the government will give the plutocrats just what they need to fully gain control of the US and finally get "the people" (the ones without massive gelt) reined in.
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Old Mar 15, 2011, 07:50 PM   #15
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Have we been exceptional for the past ten years?

Yeah. Exceptionally stupid.

Lost a lot of our people in one of our coastal cities due to non-responsiveness. Put fanatics in charge of our right wing party. Spent our surplus and killed a lot of people in a war for oil, and sank our own economy with deregulation.

That's leadership!
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Old Mar 15, 2011, 07:54 PM   #16
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**** yeah.
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Old Mar 15, 2011, 08:21 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Huntn View Post
Republican's Trying To Shock And Awe Democrats Into Submission- USA Today 15Mar2011.

Attacking Democrat demographics in an effort to diminish Obama's relection chances.
BTW, I'm pleased to see this in the MSM, and hope we'll see more of it. Forewarned is forearmed.

I think that -- aside from referendums and recalls -- there are a few other things we can do.

I was at a middle class rally the other day, and I saw two tables: one to sign up people to circulate recall petitions, and the other the usual voter registration table. I remember thinking that, as more and more people become aware of this attack on the middle class, we ought to label those tables not only "Register to vote here" but "Switch your party affiliation to Democrat here." (I don't know if you can legally do that outside of a Board of Elections office, but if you can't, we need to change that.)

Another idea came to me just now as I read the article in your link, Huntn:

Quote:
In New Hampshire, the new GOP House speaker defended his party's effort to pass a law that would make it difficult for many college students to register and vote. Young people are "foolish," William O'Brien told a Tea Party gathering, because they're "liberal" and "just vote their feelings."
That message should be playing on all media, social or otherwise, that young people use. "Sign up as a Democrats and vote, because the other guys think you're foolish and just vote your feelings."

A third, pretty obvious one is that unions need to set up their databases and accounts so that, if dues are outright banned, people can still send in their money to the union as if it were a contribution. After all, it's money they're sending in now anyway, isn't it?

A fourth is to use state referendums to raise taxes on the wealthy so that no one can claim there are "fiscal crises". I know it's a stupid use of the constitutional process, but then so was casino development, which Ohio had in one of its last elections.
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Old Mar 16, 2011, 09:07 AM   #18
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People who think there's no such thing as 'American Exceptionlism', frankly, have a sad and pathetic understanding of world history. Freedom, liberty, prosperity, small government, individualism, personal responsibility, equal opportunity, small 'r' republicanism, and equal (not 'social') justice are moral values that America - more than any other country since the 18th century - has helped to expand around the world. Are we perfect? No, far from it. Are we exceptional? Absolutely.

It's fairly clear from Obama's words that he doesn't believe in American exceptionlism. He thinks we're simply a nation of racist rednecks clinging to our guns and bibles and it's his job to do what he can politically redistribute the wealth and turn us into something other than what we were promised on July 4th, 1776... a nation which recognized that all men are created equal and equally endowed with certain inalienable rights.... but he's not as if he's alone in this regard. There are radical leftist, socialist, communists everywhere who want to change the very core of America... turning us into a nation of citizens who rely on government from cradle to grave and wouldn't know the true meaning of liberty if it slapped them in the face. People who value subsidies and bailouts more than free markets. People who value handouts more than growth opportunities. People who value collectivism more than individualism.

What I want to know is just what are you and the POTUS attempting to accomplish by putting the modern beacon of liberty on the same level as any other country around the world who has their own perception of exceptionalism?
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Old Mar 16, 2011, 09:16 AM   #19
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People who think there's no such thing as 'American Exceptionlism', frankly, have a sad and pathetic understanding of world history. Freedom, liberty, prosperity, small government, individualism, personal responsibility, equal opportunity, small 'r' republicanism, and equal (not 'social') justice are moral values that America - more than any other country since the 18th century - has helped to expand around the world. Are we perfect? No, far from it. Are we exceptional? Absolutely.

It's fairly clear from Obama's words that he doesn't believe in American exceptionlism. He thinks we're simply a nation of racist rednecks clinging to our guns and bibles and it's his job to do what he can politically redistribute the wealth and turn us into something other than what we were promised on July 4th, 1776... a nation which recognized that all men are created equal and equally endowed with certain inalienable rights.... but he's not as if he's alone in this regard. There are radical leftist, socialist, communists everywhere who want to change the very core of America... turning us into a nation of citizens who rely on government from cradle to grave and wouldn't know the true meaning of liberty if it slapped them in the face. People who value subsidies and bailouts more than free markets. People who value handouts more than growth opportunities. People who value collectivism more than individualism.

What I want to know is just what are you and the POTUS attempting to accomplish by putting the modern beacon of liberty on the same level as any other country around the world who has their own perception of exceptionalism?
Oh Christ, fivepoint. Really? How can you still hold on to this ridiculousness after what's been happening lately? Why do you view your fellow citizens who don't agree with you on every single thing like they're some sort of Red Menace? Just knock it off already. People like you are poisoning political discourse in this country. I for one am damn sick of your dishonest mischaracterizations of people who simply see things from a different perspective.
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Old Mar 16, 2011, 09:30 AM   #20
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Oh Christ, fivepoint. Really? How can you still hold on to this ridiculousness after what's been happening lately? Why do you view your fellow citizens who don't agree with you on every single thing like they're some sort of Red Menace? Just knock it off already. People like you are poisoning political discourse in this country. I for one am damn sick of your dishonest mischaracterizations of people who simply see things from a different perspective.
Really? People like me?


Oops, posted earlier today:

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Originally Posted by leekohler View Post
Simple. They don't have Republicans. They actually give a **** about each other and come together to help each other. In the US- it's every man for himself. Just ask a Libertarian.
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Old Mar 16, 2011, 09:33 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by fivepoint View Post
People who think there's no such thing as 'American Exceptionlism', frankly, have a sad and pathetic understanding of world history. Freedom, liberty, prosperity, small government, individualism, personal responsibility, equal opportunity, small 'r' republicanism, and equal (not 'social') justice are moral values that America - more than any other country since the 18th century - has helped to expand around the world.
Perhaps you could remind this sad and pathetic individual exactly how US adventurism and hegemonic ambition in South America, the Philippines, Iran, Somalia, Egypt, Israel, Cuba, Afghanistan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Vietnam has expanded freedom, liberty, prosperity and small government in those areas?
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Old Mar 16, 2011, 09:33 AM   #22
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Fivepoint, some of us radical, leftist, marxist, commie, red-bastards you hate so much actually fight for things like your right to post what you just did. We (radical lefties) fight for religious freedom, including the freedom to be free of religion. We fight for individual liberties, including, in many cases, the freedom to have firearms (admittedly, there are differences of opinion on whether to impose reasonable or more restrictive regulations). We fight for internet neutrality. We fight for neutral judges who actually rule based on the merits of cases. We fight for average workers. We fight for the right of a business to operate, but we also fight to make sure that their operations don't kill people.

Personally, I love my country, but I'm not so stupid to think that we are as a people, a nation, automatically better than everyone else. In 1776, we fought hard to establish a great country, and then we had to fight to keep it and defend it. Now, the radical, right-wing, tea-bag, fringe wants to eliminate many of the things that make us great. And, you're defending them, and saying those of us fighting against corporate interests and elimination of protections for the American people are the bad guys.

America doesn't have its exceptionalism automatically. We have to fight for it. You want to just give it away. I'll be at my voting booth doing my part to cancel out your vote. Why? Because I actually love my country and I care about my neighbors.
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Old Mar 16, 2011, 09:36 AM   #23
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Really? People like me?


Oops, posted earlier today:
Please. Prove my statement wrong. Tell me you don't believe in "every man for himself". Because nothing I've seen from you has ever indicated otherwise.

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Fivepoint, some of us radical, leftist, marxist, commie, red-bastards you hate so much actually fight for things like your right to post what you just did. We (radical lefties) fight for religious freedom, including the freedom to be free of religion. We fight for individual liberties, including, in many cases, the freedom to have firearms (admittedly, there are differences of opinion on whether to impose reasonable or more restrictive regulations). We fight for internet neutrality. We fight for neutral judges who actually rule based on the merits of cases. We fight for average workers. We fight for the right of a business to operate, but we also fight to make sure that their operations don't kill people.

Personally, I love my country, but I'm not so stupid to think that we are as a people, a nation, automatically better than everyone else. In 1776, we fought hard to establish a great country, and then we had to fight to keep it and defend it. Now, the radical, right-wing, tea-bag, fringe wants to eliminate many of the things that make us great. And, you're defending them, and saying those of us fighting against corporate interests and elimination of protections for the American people are the bad guys.

America doesn't have its exceptionalism automatically. We have to fight for it. You want to just give it away. I'll be at my voting booth doing my part to cancel out your vote. Why? Because I actually love my country and I care about my neighbors.
Damn right.
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Old Mar 16, 2011, 09:39 AM   #24
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Oh Christ, fivepoint. Really? How can you still hold on to this ridiculousness after what's been happening lately? Why do you view your fellow citizens who don't agree with you on every single thing like they're some sort of Red Menace? Just knock it off already. People like you are poisoning political discourse in this country. I for one am damn sick of your dishonest mischaracterizations of people who simply see things from a different perspective.
This from the man who believes that the root of ALL evil are Republicans.
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Old Mar 16, 2011, 09:56 AM   #25
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without resorting to any kind of generalization and branding, the mere idea of rehashing the concept of 'american exceptionalism' should sound ludicrous.
'American exceptionalism' is the ultimate anti-american ideal.

yes, some of the ideas that made america were exceptional and were truly ahead of their times, and there were some really exceptional people among her sons (natural born or, more frequently, adopted).
unfortunately a good part of those exceptional ideas are now spearheaded by different countries, and different people.

or, to paraphrase orwell
"all countries are exceptional, but some countries are more exceptional than others"
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