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Old Apr 14, 2011, 04:27 PM   #101
MattSepeta
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Rep Todd Rokita (R) on CNN today: "We should not take from the people who create jobs in this country." His reason for not raising taxes on the rich. You may notice a Republican perspective that all rich people take their money and create jobs with it. This is a myth.
Right you are. The poor are the job creators. Every time I pass a busker/panhandler I try to drop off an application.



I don't understand how the following concept is so hard for liberals to grasp:

Other peoples things are not yours to take. Taking it through the force of law does not make it morally right. If you feel you are under a moral obligation to help people in need, you have every right to live a life of destitute and give all the money you would otherwise spend on travel, eating out, etc to the poor.

In fact, if all the liberals banded together and decided to do this voluntarily, we have a win-win on our hands. The doo-gooders get to feel good and back-slap, and the greedy evil bastards get to keep rolling around in their piles of cash, not creating jobs or investing in corporations helping fund payrolls.

I seriously do not understand how anyone can argue that the rich "do nothing" with their money. Even if it is just sitting in the bank collecting interest, it is allowing the bank to make more loans, etc. If it is invested for profit, the companies invested in are using the funds to hire more people, research and develop for the betterment of society, etc.
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Old Apr 14, 2011, 04:43 PM   #102
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But the middle class do create jobs. And the poor do them.
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Old Apr 14, 2011, 04:45 PM   #103
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But the middle class do create jobs. And the poor do them.
Never said they didn't
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Old Apr 14, 2011, 05:03 PM   #104
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I am sorry that I caused so much to be said against me.. I guess I am wrong.. everything is just fine and there is no corruption or problems going on.. I guess I will just go into a hole and just sit there for awhile
Ah, don't say that! Having the majority against you in controversial topics isn't necessarily a bad thing. Maybe here on PRSI it is negative, but in the real world it shows that you've got the guts to disagree with the establishment.
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Old Apr 14, 2011, 05:17 PM   #105
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Right you are. The poor are the job creators. Every time I pass a busker/panhandler I try to drop off an application.
The poor are job creators not because they build the factories that make the products, but because the create the demand for the products those factories manufacture.
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Old Apr 14, 2011, 05:23 PM   #106
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The poor are job creators not because they build the factories that make the products, but because the create the demand for the products those factories manufacture.
With logic like that, who needs logic?
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Old Apr 14, 2011, 05:28 PM   #107
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With logic like that, who needs logic?
Let's see- if no one can afford to buy your products, where do jobs come from? Seems pretty logical to me. And the rich have not been creating a whole lot of jobs in spite of all these tax cuts, have they?

Where are the jobs they promised after years of the lowest taxes in decades? We gave them what they wanted, so where are the things they promised we'd see as a result? Hmm?
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Old Apr 14, 2011, 05:31 PM   #108
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Let's see- if no one can afford to buy your products, where do jobs come from? Seems pretty logical to me. And the rich have not been creating a whole lot of jobs in spite of all these tax cuts, have they?

Where are the jobs they promised after years of the lowest taxes in decades?
Where was the <8% unemployment after passing the Stimulus?



As for the back-assward "cigol", that would make everybody "job creators", not just one group (the poor). It would actually STILL make the upper/middle class the job creators, as they have much greater purchasing power.
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Old Apr 14, 2011, 05:37 PM   #109
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Where was the <8% unemployment after passing the Stimulus?

Answer the question. You made the claim, back it up. Show me the evidence that trickle down works. So far, there is none. In fact, the evidence and history point to just the opposite effect.
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Old Apr 14, 2011, 06:13 PM   #110
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Dear god- they're probably gonna start again with "Obama's a Kenyan" and a muslim.
Who exactly is "they"? Even Glenn Beck did an episode on this very subject, and concluded that all evidence points to Obama being a proper US citizen, and also not being a muslim. So when even Glenn Beck is going out of his way to point this out, I'm curious who exactly you think "they" are?

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Why do we have to share this country with so many idiots?
LOL I think the same thing quite often!
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Old Apr 14, 2011, 06:15 PM   #111
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With logic like that, who needs logic?
Instead of just complaining about the logic, how about being specific as to why you find it flawed?


Sorry ... didn't read this far ...

Quote:
As for the back-assward "cigol", that would make everybody "job creators", not just one group (the poor). It would actually STILL make the upper/middle class the job creators, as they have much greater purchasing power.
Yes, there is still demand generated by both upper and lower class. However, there is a huge difference in the population of those classes. The lower classes, due to the immensely higher number of people in that class create more demand for many items than do the upper class.

And no ... I'm not talking about yachts ... I'm talking about TVs, dishwashers, clothes, etc.

Last edited by citizenzen; Apr 14, 2011 at 06:20 PM.
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Old Apr 14, 2011, 06:15 PM   #112
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Who exactly is "they"? Even Glenn Beck did an episode on this very subject, and concluded that all evidence points to Obama being a proper US citizen, and also not being a muslim. So when even Glenn Beck is going out of his way to point this out, I'm curious who exactly you think "they" are?
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Nevertheless, some Republican elected officials have expressed skepticism about Obama's citizenship or have displayed a lack of willingness to acknowledge it,[20] while Republican members of the U.S. Congress and state assemblies have proposed and voted for legislation that would require presidential candidates to provide documentation of their qualifications to be president, including natural-born citizenship. Additionally, polls conducted in 2010 suggested that more than a quarter of adult Americans doubted Obama's U.S. birth.[13]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birther_conspiracy
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Old Apr 14, 2011, 06:19 PM   #113
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Who exactly is "they"? Even Glenn Beck did an episode on this very subject, and concluded that all evidence points to Obama being a proper US citizen, and also not being a muslim. So when even Glenn Beck is going out of his way to point this out, I'm curious who exactly you think "they" are?
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Does Donald trump count?
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Old Apr 14, 2011, 06:27 PM   #114
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Who exactly is "they"?

The Republican/Tea Party folk. 51%. You are the birther party.
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Old Apr 14, 2011, 07:06 PM   #115
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So the House has voted (241-185) to defund Planned Parenthood and ban the health-care overhaul law. Don't worry though because this was only a Symbolic Vote and the bans would need to be approved by the Democratic-controlled Senate and by President Barack Obama in order to take effect, which won't happen.

Good thing they voted because I can't stand all those free condoms that are being handed out and adding to the deficit
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Old Apr 14, 2011, 07:10 PM   #116
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I don't understand how the following concept is so hard for liberals to grasp ...
"Liberals" have a difficult time with simple concepts. Usually that is because most of the things you boil down to a syllogism or precept fail a little, somewhat or (more often) massively at being applicable in terms of this extremely complicated world in which we live.

If you just hand over gobs of money to wealthy people (because not forcing them to pay their own freight is a give-away), what incentive do they have to create jobs? When a person has billions, their goal is most often to get more for themselves, which generally yields fewer jobs. From what I can tell, higher yield investment activity mostly takes place in a vague cloud where there is just a lot of money swirling around not doing much other than changing hands between the big-time investors. Money seems to exist within its own realm, often with little relationship to people or society.

Meanwhile, those wealthy investors are busy devising strategies to legally take more of the average person's money. If you want to argue about "taking other people's stuff, do a thorough study of finance. It is all about separating you from as much of your money as possible for the least return, and the richer (meaning "more powerful", since the governments, from Springfield to Washington DC, are all for sake) they get, the more effective and difficult to avoid their strategies become.
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Old Apr 14, 2011, 11:43 PM   #117
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Nice clip on GOP job creation... http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/pol...nce.cnn?hpt=C2
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Old Apr 14, 2011, 11:54 PM   #118
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Yep- pretty much. These people are scum.
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Old Apr 15, 2011, 12:09 AM   #119
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Right you are. The poor are the job creators. Every time I pass a busker/panhandler I try to drop off an application.

[snip]
Other peoples things are not yours to take. Taking it through the force of law does not make it morally right.


Quote:
If it is invested for profit, the companies invested in are using the funds to hire more people, research and develop for the betterment of society, etc.
"If" being the operative word. Maybe you haven't been paying attention, but this is not happening with the frequency you seem to think.
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Old Apr 15, 2011, 12:10 AM   #120
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So the House has voted (241-185) to defund Planned Parenthood and ban the health-care overhaul law. Don't worry though because this was only a Symbolic Vote and the bans would need to be approved by the Democratic-controlled Senate and by President Barack Obama in order to take effect, which won't happen.

Good thing they voted because I can't stand all those free condoms that are being handed out and adding to the deficit
I never knew that Planned Parenthood was publicly funded, I thought it was a private organization. As for healthcare, since the law was passed my premiums have skyrocketed.
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Old Apr 15, 2011, 12:22 AM   #121
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As for healthcare, since the law was passed my premiums have skyrocketed.
Really? Mine have stayed the same.
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Old Apr 15, 2011, 12:26 AM   #122
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As for healthcare, since the law was passed my premiums have skyrocketed.
That's probably more of a side-effect of the legislation. Mine went up sometime in Q1 or Q2 2010, probably in anticipation of legislation being passed.

Those ******* insurance companies are doing their gouging now while they still can.

Last edited by Surely; Apr 15, 2011 at 12:38 AM. Reason: a≠o
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Old Apr 15, 2011, 07:35 AM   #123
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That's probably more of a side-effect of the legislation. Mine went up sometime in Q1 or Q2 2010, probably in anticipation of legislation being passed.

Those ******* insurance companies are doing their gouging now while they still can.
It's been going on a lot- http://medicare-part-news.blogspot.c...e-already.html
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Old Apr 15, 2011, 10:28 PM   #124
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Right you are. The poor are the job creators. Every time I pass a busker/panhandler I try to drop off an application.

If you read my statement I said Republican's think "all" wealthy people create jobs with their money. They don't. If anyone insists on special tax breaks it should be based on mean testing. Set a standard for creating a job, not just some rich guy out living life to it's fullest. I'm not talking about the indirect result of spending money on things. That is trickle down. In that case the rich eat cake and rest get the crumbs that fall off their plates. I'm sorry but this is not enough of a reason to give them extraordinary tax breaks so they have more money to spoil themselves with.

If you are not rich, I don't get this unabashed defense of people who really don't need help to attain more money then they all ready have. By your actions you want to enable the glutton to even greater heights. And no I'm not jealous. It would be nice to have more toys, but I am satisfied with my place in this life.

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If it is invested for profit, the companies invested in are using the funds to hire more people, research and develop for the betterment of society, etc.
Quote:
"If" being the operative word. Maybe you haven't been paying attention, but this is not happening with the frequency you seem to think.
I like your perspective.
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Old Apr 22, 2011, 11:07 AM   #125
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American exceptionalism is so bad for the country. It's the reason why almost everyone outside of America hates us. And then you have all the jackasses that think America is perfect and doesn't need to change ANYTHING because we're America and we're awesome anyway.


Boo exceptionalism!
i had an english teacher who was a german exchange student, and she said while growing up, that america was viewed as this wonder promise land of opportunity. This america hating fest has just recently picked up steam.

Personally, I believe that as long as we keep trying to become europe (which will always fail because we're too big, and too full of republicans) people will continue to hate us.

But if we go back to our roots and embrace personal responsibility, the ensuing prosperity, and "you get what you work for" quality of america will regenerate the respect we once had

IMO
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