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Old Jul 26, 2014, 05:53 AM   #1
pedromcm.pm
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Is Google right?

I love Google and their products. In fact, I think that there is only one company that makes better products (Apple), but because they price those products on a certain way, it isn't always the right thing to use them.

As such, despite having a Mac, I use a Dual core, 1 GB of RAM Android device without any sort of carrier/OEM bloat. It is good enough for checking email, twitter, facebook, ocasional browsing and light games. And I only spent 120 on it, no contract. (How is it possible that you americans do not realize that Verizon and ATT are raping you? I mean, they posted more than 5 billion dollars in net profit. More than Google FFS.)

If we had to choose a big difference in mentality between the 2 companies, something that could point how one (or the other) could be relevant (or not) in 20 years, it's the way they see and treat costumer data (or the way they say they see).

Google (and Facebook, etc.) is making a point of how they use your data to create a picture of you, to better serve you, to better target ads at you. To sell you.

Apple (and to a lesser extent, Microsoft) is making a point of how they DO NOT use your data like that, but they do, even if in a more "controlled" way, right? They have to because it is extremely profitable to do so, and this is business. Not only that, ads are a reality, and seeing ads that might interest you is much better. There's iAds, Apple still uses Google services, they still collect their own data (even if they do not sell it, yet), etc.

Then there's the whole convenience, and how services get better when they "learn" from you.

So, if Apple wants to produce better devices, better software, they will have to deal with the same backlash that Google does, right? (Do no evil my ass) Not only that, if they want to attack Google directly and take full control of the iOS ecosystem, they can't afford to give something so powerful, central and important to Google or Microsoft, like search.

So, in the long run, treating data like Google does is the right thing to do, right? It doesn't necessary mean that privacy is for, and people aren't bothered by it, otherwise they wouldn't sign in and use their accounts. We have to agree that it is more of a media and some forum users, no?

I look for the day that when I buy my first iPhone, I can completely delete my google account. Despite using dropbox and mailbox to sync docs, email and photos, and having firefox and other things, I still have to use Google's search.
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 08:47 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by pedromcm.pm View Post
I love Google and their products. In fact, I think that there is only one company that makes better products (Apple), but because they price those products on a certain way, it isn't always the right thing to use them.

As such, despite having a Mac, I use a Dual core, 1 GB of RAM Android device without any sort of carrier/OEM bloat. It is good enough for checking email, twitter, facebook, ocasional browsing and light games. And I only spent 120 on it, no contract. (How is it possible that you americans do not realize that Verizon and ATT are raping you? I mean, they posted more than 5 billion dollars in net profit. More than Google FFS.)

If we had to choose a big difference in mentality between the 2 companies, something that could point how one (or the other) could be relevant (or not) in 20 years, it's the way they see and treat costumer data (or the way they say they see).

Google (and Facebook, etc.) is making a point of how they use your data to create a picture of you, to better serve you, to better target ads at you. To sell you.

Apple (and to a lesser extent, Microsoft) is making a point of how they DO NOT use your data like that, but they do, even if in a more "controlled" way, right? They have to because it is extremely profitable to do so, and this is business. Not only that, ads are a reality, and seeing ads that might interest you is much better. There's iAds, Apple still uses Google services, they still collect their own data (even if they do not sell it, yet), etc.

Then there's the whole convenience, and how services get better when they "learn" from you.

So, if Apple wants to produce better devices, better software, they will have to deal with the same backlash that Google does, right? (Do no evil my ass) Not only that, if they want to attack Google directly and take full control of the iOS ecosystem, they can't afford to give something so powerful, central and important to Google or Microsoft, like search.

So, in the long run, treating data like Google does is the right thing to do, right? It doesn't necessary mean that privacy is for, and people aren't bothered by it, otherwise they wouldn't sign in and use their accounts. We have to agree that it is more of a media and some forum users, no?

I look for the day that when I buy my first iPhone, I can completely delete my google account. Despite using dropbox and mailbox to sync docs, email and photos, and having firefox and other things, I still have to use Google's search.
Currently am considering dumping my iPhone and Sprint, looking for a way to lower phone costs. In actuality, I do very little with my phone, instead use my iPad for most iOS endeavors.
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 08:48 AM   #3
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How is it possible that you americans do not realize that Verizon and ATT are raping you? I mean, they posted more than 5 billion dollars in net profit.
Oh, we realize it. There just isn't much we can do about it, individually anyway.
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 09:30 AM   #4
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Oh, we realize it. There just isn't much we can do about it, individually anyway.
Like buying unlocked and using prepaid plans?

I mean, I pay 1.25 each week, with unlimited calls and sms to vodafone numbers, 200 MB of data and 30cent/min when I need to call to other networks.

Apple should build their own network.
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 09:32 AM   #5
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I mean for those of us who want smartphones, not prepaid or "dumb" phones. There isn't a lot we can do to reduce our plan prices.
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 09:56 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by pedromcm.pm View Post
As such, despite having a Mac, I use a Dual core, 1 GB of RAM Android device without any sort of carrier/OEM bloat. It is good enough for checking email, twitter, facebook, ocasional browsing and light games. And I only spent 120€ on it, no contract. (How is it possible that you americans do not realize that Verizon and ATT are raping you? I mean, they posted more than 5 billion dollars in net profit. More than Google FFS.)
What kind of phone do you have? I'm sure if you can get a "Dual core, 1 GB of RAM Android device without any sort of carrier/OEM bloat", we can get it too for that price.

As far as I can tell, AT&T USA and Vodafone in Portugal have similar pricing plans. I'm in Canada BTW.
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 11:31 AM   #7
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I mean for those of us who want smartphones, not prepaid or "dumb" phones. There isn't a lot we can do to reduce our plan prices.
I bought a Galaxy S3 mini in a promotion (clube viva). 120. There's the Moto E, G and a lot of other phones that for my usage (facebook, twitter, mail, ocasional browsing, light gaming, music, spotify) are good enough. Plenty of choice.

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Originally Posted by heehee View Post
What kind of phone do you have? I'm sure if you can get a "Dual core, 1 GB of RAM Android device without any sort of carrier/OEM bloat", we can get it too for that price.

As far as I can tell, AT&T USA and Vodafone in Portugal have similar pricing plans. I'm in Canada BTW.
I have a Galaxy S3 mini from "Club Viva" (points = discounts. I spent 120). Of course, I only used the stock ROM for a day and I understand that not everybody is like me. However, like I said, new motorola and LG devices provide a great experience for the typical smartphone user.

Those are Red prices, only used for families who are deeply in the vodafone ecosystem (TV, internet, phone).

http://www.yorn.net/YORN/TARIFARIO/YORN-W/index.htm

These and other similar prices from vodafone (yorn belongs to vodafone) are the norm for most users, here. It is more or less the same in every carrier.
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 01:02 PM   #8
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How does tracking me make Google Drive better? How about Google+?

The reason why Google Drive works, is because they went after the people who were using Microsoft Office and the other open source alternatives. Because for the longest time, students either had to go out of their way and pay for Office, or use a school computer to get assignments done. In 6th grade, I did NOT have access to PowerPoint, and had to deal with exactly that. Same thing with Excel.

And so now my brother, who now also is required to do presentations every week, is able to do them without having to deal with proprietary software. And as we're Mac people with very old computers, it sweetens the deal that it's browser based.

With all the data they have on us, you'd think Google+ would be growing, and it's not. It gets more and more deserted every month... I am going to predict that in a years time, they will shutter it, and merge it with Google Groups (Hangouts will still stay intact though). Why? Because it's working so well with bets testing, at least getting people to sign up for them, but it makes a poor communication hub. And if you can't communicate with your testers, then there's no point in doing the betas in the first place.
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 01:03 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Huntn View Post
Currently am considering dumping my iPhone and Sprint, looking for a way to lower phone costs. In actuality, I do very little with my phone, instead use my iPad for most iOS endeavors.
you might look into an iPhone with a prepaid plan. For those of us that mostly use our phones as phones, it's a lot cheaper than AT&T, Sprint, Verizon, etc.

I'm paying Virgin Mobile $40 a month for unlimited calls & texts and a data limit that's way higher than I ever use. You do have to buy their iPhone.....when I bought mine I found the cost spread over a year added another $30 +/- to the cost.....and since VM contracts with Sprint in most places in the US, you probably wouldn't notice much difference compared to your current connection speeds
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Old Jul 26, 2014, 11:01 PM   #10
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Currently am considering dumping my iPhone and Sprint, looking for a way to lower phone costs. In actuality, I do very little with my phone, instead use my iPad for most iOS endeavors.
Probably a no contract carrier is your best bet. Aforementioned Virgin Mobile, Cricket (now run by AT&T), T-Mobile, Straight Talk, etc. Just depends on who gives you the best bang for your buck locally.

I went from an $80/month plan on Verizon to a $35-40/month plan on VM about 3.5 years ago and never looked back. However, I'm a bit unhappy with VM lately. Bad phone offerings besides crazy priced iPhones and seemingly slower and slower data (plus no WiMax or LTE here).

Probably going to get a Moto G off contract for $179-219 (depending on model) and go to Cricket for $35/month ($40 - $5 autopay credit). That gets you talk, text, and 500MB data. Actually think Cricket is/was offering the original Moto G for $99 + $50 VISA gift card, which would be a great deal.
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Old Yesterday, 05:15 AM   #11
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I'm not a google fan, they have some nice products but everything is designed around them selling my usage patterns and/or making money advertising to me. Something about their tactics bothers me, such as scanning my emails to send more ads to me - that just rubs me the wrong way.
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Old Yesterday, 05:20 AM   #12
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How does tracking me make Google Drive better? How about Google+?
Isn't this view a very limited view of what collecting data means? Tracking you makes Google Maps better. Tracking you makes Google Now the most awesome tool on every smartphone.

It will show you points of interest, where you parked your car, where you have been previously, where you could like to go now, movies nearby, etc.

That is only a small example of what collecting data means. Siri could be way better if it collect your data like Google does.

What about collecting data from your browsing history? You like Madonna (stupid example), and want to be informed about that topic. Madonna dies? Google Now shows you a card. Anything relevant about a search topic that you like will get a nice card. It is a swype away.

Let's forget phone prices and focus on this aspect. It is extremely convenient and if Apple did it, the quality of their products would skyrocket.

The way that they use data is the only thing preventing Apple's fist to hit Google's nose.
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Old Yesterday, 05:59 AM   #13
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Isn't this view a very limited view of what collecting data means? Tracking you makes Google Maps better.
That's how they entice you to allow the tracking but I think they derive more of a benefit of marketing and tracking your usages over improving the product.

Privacy is a thing of the past I know, but if I can avoid companies that purposely collect my data for marketing purposes then I will - just call me old fashioned
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Old Yesterday, 06:03 AM   #14
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That's how they entice you to allow the tracking but I think they derive more of a benefit of marketing and tracking your usages over improving the product.

Privacy is a thing of the past I know, but if I can avoid companies that purposely collect my data for marketing purposes then I will - just call me old fashioned
I don't get it.

Their goal is to make money. They make services that, maybe with the exception of Apple, have no rival and use your data not only to profit from them, but to make them better.

If Apple wants to enter search, if Apple want to make Siri useful, if Apple want to improve their experience, they will have to treat data the same way, especially if they want to profit directly from it (eventually YoY growth on devices will stop. Maybe in 1 year, maybe in 100.).
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Old Yesterday, 06:21 AM   #15
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I don't get it.

Their goal is to make money. They make services that, maybe with the exception of Apple, have no rival and use your data not only to profit from them, but to make them better.
I choose not to be the commodity that google sells - simple.

Quote:
If Apple wants to enter search, if Apple want to make Siri useful, if Apple want to improve their experience, they will have to treat data the same way, especially if they want to profit directly from it (eventually YoY growth on devices will stop. Maybe in 1 year, maybe in 100.).
I would feel the same way with Apple, in fact when I was prompted to allow apple maps to phone home to "improve its services" I chose to decline that option.
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Old Yesterday, 07:21 AM   #16
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I choose not to be the commodity that google sells - simple.


I would feel the same way with Apple, in fact when I was prompted to allow apple maps to phone home to "improve its services" I chose to decline that option.
But what is your POV on "global" terms?
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Old Yesterday, 08:05 AM   #17
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But what is your POV on "global" terms?
I don't understand your question? what do you mean by global terms?
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Old Yesterday, 08:23 AM   #18
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you might look into an iPhone with a prepaid plan. For those of us that mostly use our phones as phones, it's a lot cheaper than AT&T, Sprint, Verizon, etc.

I'm paying Virgin Mobile $40 a month for unlimited calls & texts and a data limit that's way higher than I ever use. You do have to buy their iPhone.....when I bought mine I found the cost spread over a year added another $30 +/- to the cost.....and since VM contracts with Sprint in most places in the US, you probably wouldn't notice much difference compared to your current connection speeds
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Probably a no contract carrier is your best bet. Aforementioned Virgin Mobile, Cricket (now run by AT&T), T-Mobile, Straight Talk, etc. Just depends on who gives you the best bang for your buck locally.

I went from an $80/month plan on Verizon to a $35-40/month plan on VM about 3.5 years ago and never looked back. However, I'm a bit unhappy with VM lately. Bad phone offerings besides crazy priced iPhones and seemingly slower and slower data (plus no WiMax or LTE here).

Probably going to get a Moto G off contract for $179-219 (depending on model) and go to Cricket for $35/month ($40 - $5 autopay credit). That gets you talk, text, and 500MB data. Actually think Cricket is/was offering the original Moto G for $99 + $50 VISA gift card, which would be a great deal.
Thanks guys for the help. Right now with a corporate discount, I pay $135 a month for a 2 phone Sprint family plan. Before I had smart phones, it was $75 for 2 phones. This is what m trying to get back to. My contract is up in Sept. The problem with iPhones, they are expensive to buy. May have to go with a lesser phone.
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Old Yesterday, 08:31 AM   #19
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I don't understand your question? what do you mean by global terms?
You have your needs, your expectations and your rules as a smartphone user. But try to think as a "regular" smartphone user.

Will Apple HAVE TO follow Google's lead to improve their products and to grow their profits?
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Old Yesterday, 08:40 AM   #20
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Currently am considering dumping my iPhone and Sprint, looking for a way to lower phone costs. In actuality, I do very little with my phone, instead use my iPad for most iOS endeavors.
If you don't need a smartphone, an older prepaid phone is the way to go. I use an older Motorola Razr flip phone on a $100 for 1000 minutes prepaid T-Mobile plan (no monthly billing). I think I payed $79.00 at Amazon to buy the phone and I just purchase more minutes when I need them.

I have Wifi at most locations so I use my iPod Touch 5 for most iPhone task other than making calls and GPS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromcm.pm View Post
You have your needs, your expectations and your rules as a smartphone user. But try to think as a "regular" smartphone user.

Will Apple HAVE TO follow Google's lead to improve their products and to grow their profits?
Nope.
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Old Yesterday, 09:56 AM   #21
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I choose not to be the commodity that google sells - simple.


I would feel the same way with Apple, in fact when I was prompted to allow apple maps to phone home to "improve its services" I chose to decline that option.
I understand your point of view but I think you're being a bit naive and narrow minded. I know this discussion is primarily about Google/Apple but there are companies out there that have far more information about you than you can imagine.

As for Google I think there's a big misconception about what Google sells. First of all they don't actually sell anything in the literal sense. Let's say I'm a retailer and I want to advertise my widgets. And my widgets are primarily geared towards white males 18-35 with an income of around 50K who own Ford escorts.

I give Google this information and they through their algorithm try get my ads in front of the right consumers. That is all they do. I as an advertiser never see your information. All I know is that Google is pretty good at what they do and I trust that the right audience is seeing my ad. Whether it's scanning your mail or your search history, no human eyeballs see this information. It's all done by very powerful computer algorithms.

Google needs to protect you and your personal information like no other company. They need to have your trust as well as the advertiser's trust. If broken they would teeter on the brink of collapse.

The side effect of all this is the great services that Google offers their users. While I myself also have concerns about privacy I don't believe Google to be a threat.
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Old Yesterday, 11:09 AM   #22
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But try to think as a "regular" smartphone user.
Why? I'm not trying to be obtuse on purpose but I have my needs and as a user and consumer I select product that fit my needs, one aspect that is important to me is protecting my privacy - as best I can. I realize in 2014, Privacy is more of an illusion, but still that doesn't mean I'll gladly allow companies to track my habits and continually phone home to detail what I've been doing.

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I understand your point of view but I think you're being a bit naive and narrow minded.
Narrow minded - yes, I think I am but in some circumstances I think that's fine. Naive, no I don't think so. I know the state of the world, the industry and where things are headed. I may not like it, and it may be inevitable but that doesn't mean I will give up.
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Old Yesterday, 11:18 AM   #23
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If Apple wants to enter search, if Apple want to make Siri useful, if Apple want to improve their experience, they will have to treat data the same way, especially if they want to profit directly from it (eventually YoY growth on devices will stop. Maybe in 1 year, maybe in 100.).
No they won't. Apple might use your data to improve the product, but they don't have to sell it in any form, aggregate or otherwise. Nor do they have to pitch advertising to you based on your data.
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