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Old Feb 17, 2005, 03:56 PM   #1
iHatePCs
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Pop Ups!?

Hey the other day I was surfing some sites and on a couple of them I got actual pop ups without clicking anything... they weren't bad sites either they were like "greatschools.net" and other professional websites. Yes, I have the popup blocer on. This is the first time I've ever even gotten a pop up on a Mac! Whats going on!??!?!?!?! Has anyone else had a problem???
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Old Feb 17, 2005, 03:58 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iHatePCs
Hey the other day I was surfing some sites and on a couple of them I got actual pop ups without clicking anything... they weren't bad sites either they were like "greatschools.net" and other professional websites. Yes, I have the popup blocer on. This is the first time I've ever even gotten a pop up on a Mac! Whats going on!??!?!?!?! Has anyone else had a problem???
Calm down!

You using Safari? Do you have pop-ups blocked? stupid question- but once that happened to me.

kyle
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Old Feb 17, 2005, 04:01 PM   #3
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There are some sites managing to evade popup killers in Safari and Firefox. I would expect them to be patched soon. There are other threads on this, do a search.
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Old Feb 17, 2005, 06:00 PM   #4
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Let me add Camino to that. Just last week it started. I've had about 4 popups (yes, my blocker is enabled).
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Old Feb 22, 2005, 09:45 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fBaran
Let me add Camino to that. Just last week it started. I've had about 4 popups (yes, my blocker is enabled).
I've had 4 popups just today on www.drudgereport.com and I used to never get ANY until the 10.3.8 update. Safari is now in the shitcan until Apple can stop breaking things. I am not sure that is possible. It seems that they have some issues in the not-breaking-things department.

Does anyone who uses Caminio notice the odd way text is typed? It's like the cursor jumps to the front of the letter after drawing it and then jumps back to the right of it.

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Old Feb 22, 2005, 09:49 AM   #6
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Add CNN, Washington Post, USA Today and a bunch I cannot remember to the list.

Evidently the advertisers have wigured a work around to the blockers, which is really annoying.

It gets worse every day on my copies of Safari AND Firefox.
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Old Feb 22, 2005, 12:12 PM   #7
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just got one on interfacelift.com

is this new javascript or something?
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Old Feb 22, 2005, 12:28 PM   #8
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i still have never gotten a pop up, and i already visted cnn.com and interfacelift.com today, but maybe its because i have PithHelmet running that i am not getting any popups, not sure to be honest

i do think that there is a new form of pop up going around, hopefully it will be patched and fixed soon
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Old Feb 22, 2005, 12:31 PM   #9
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Despite the comments by darkwing above, this isn't a Safari, or even Apple problem. There are a few people who specialize in scripting popups who are claiming they've found ways to subvert blockers that are common to both Mac and Windows platforms, and as a result in the last week or so, the number of popups (or more commonly, popUNDERS) has increased markedly.

In some cases this appears to be accomplished in javascript, in others by the use of third-party plugins. For the javascript popups, disabling java should work, though it's likely that browsers like Safari and Firefox, and popup blockers will be updated fairly soon. For those using plugins, disabling the Flash plugin should deal with most!
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Old Feb 22, 2005, 01:20 PM   #10
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Don't most popup blockers allow popups from sites resolving to the same domain name as the page your are viewing?

I wonder if the popup writers are taking advantage of this known exploit to make it look like a popup came from the site you are viewing.
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Old Feb 22, 2005, 01:47 PM   #11
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I don't think this is the websties evading the pop-up blockers, necessarily.

I NEVER got this problem before I installed 10.3.8
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Old Feb 22, 2005, 02:40 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac-er
I don't think this is the websties evading the pop-up blockers, necessarily.

I NEVER got this problem before I installed 10.3.8
It's not 10.3.8 silly. This week I got 3 or 4 popups on my Windows XP laptop running Firefox. Prior to this week, I've had 0 in the last year plus. It's something in the popup code that is getting around the browser's blocking ability.
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Old Feb 22, 2005, 03:29 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by za9ra22
In some cases this appears to be accomplished in javascript, in others by the use of third-party plugins. For the javascript popups, disabling java should work,
Java != JavaScript. Disabling Java won't stop JavaScript popups.
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Old Feb 22, 2005, 03:43 PM   #14
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I got those popups/popunders too. That 10.3.8 was just released was just coincidence, it's happening with other browsers too. Disabling the Flash plugins won't help either. I don't know how the developers will find a way around the new popup technique, but I'm sure it'll be done.
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Old Feb 22, 2005, 04:46 PM   #15
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You'd think the advertisers would take the near-universal presence of pop-up blockers as a sign that people don't want to see pop-up ads and will not respond to them.
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Old Feb 22, 2005, 05:05 PM   #16
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From MacFixit:

As per yesterday's posting from MacFixit at http://www.macfixit.com/article.php?...0221083128830:

--
"Late-Breakers
Monday, February 21 2005 @ 08:31 AM PST

Pop-up, pop-under blockers no longer working (#3)

We continue coverage of a non-product/platform-specific issue where Web advertisement pop-unders appear to infiltrate blocking mechanisms with greater frequency.

As noted last week, this problem isn't limited to Safari; nor is it limited to Macs. Instead, it appears to be the result of new ad delivery techniques that seek to subvert traditional blocking systems.
Several users have reported success with shareware solutions that can successfully thwart the new ad delivery schemes.

PithHelmet blocks image, javascript, Flash ads and GIF animations. It can also collapse blocked content so that it is hidden from view.

Randolph Mitchell writes: No popups or pop-unders seen with Safari 1.2.4 (10.3.8) at any sites, including macosrumors.com, macdailynews.com, howstuffworks.com, and drudgereport.com; perhaps because I'm running Pith Helmet?"

Privoxy provides filtering capabilities for protecting privacy, filtering web page content, managing cookies, controlling access, and removing ads, banners, pop-ups

Lars Eggert writes "For ad blocking, you can't beat privoxy. It's an HTTP proxy running on your local box that filters the HTML before it reaches the browser. It's free, multi-platform, rock-solid and easy to install (web-based configuration.)"

Internet Cleanup blocks banner ads, pop-ups, and purports to detect the presence of spyware.

MacFixIt reader Mike writes: "If people want to block just about all pop up ads then I can recommend Allume's Internet Cleanup. Since installing this software some time ago and using it's default configuration I have not seen any pop up advertising on my Mac."

FlashBlock For Firefox users, an extension called FlashBlock enables users to have control over all flash ads and whether they show or not. See the section below on Macromedia technologies subverting pop-under blockers for more information.


A tedious workaround Meanwhile, MacFixIt reader Steve notes a kludgy workaround that works to eliminate some "on-click" pop-unders:

"I don't see the new pop-unders on the Drudge Report [Ed.- One of the sites implicated for increased pop-unders in our initial report] any more. The way these things work is that they're set to open an ad when you leave the site by clicking on a link. So I right-click on the link I want, copy the URL, and paste it in the address bar. It's a bit kludgey, but it works like a charm."

Pop-unders causing crashes A handful of MacFixIt readers have reported a more serious, but related issue where Safari crashes when attempting to display some pop-under ads.

MacFixIt reader Barry Maggert writes: "I have had a more serious annoying problem which started sometime last fall. A few sites crash Safari when trying to open a pop-up window and I have Pop-up Blocking turned on. The two sites that do this to me are CBS.SportsLine.com and PGATour.com. When visiting these sites I have to turn Pop-up Blocking off first or Safari "unexpectedly quits." They obviously have new 'pop-up code' of some kind. (Their main page doesn't do this, just certain sub-pages try to open pop-up ads.)

"Apple's discussion groups have many people noting the same problem, so I know it's not just me. I've also noticed the problem exists with OmniWeb, but not with Camino or FireFox, which leads me to believe it is KHTML based. That's what Safari and OmniWeb have in common."

If you are experiencing a similar issue, please let us know.


Response from a pop-up subverter Last week we mentioned a company called "Popuptraffic.com" that was directly boasts about their ability to subvert pop-up blockers.

MacFixIt reader David Ourisman had an interesting exchange with a representative from "Popuptraffic.com", as follows:

David Ourisman wrote: "I am writing to complain about the fact that you are intentionally trying to subvert web users desire not to view pop-under ads. This is a very poor business practice, and I consider any impression from an unwanted advertisement to be an inducement to boycott that advertiser."

Popuptraffic.com's response: "How dare you? Let me teach you a little something that you obviously never were able to grasp. If you go to a website and in exchange for taking what that website is providing, you are shown a popup ad, you allow the owner of the site the to recoup some of the very real costs involved with keeping a site online. By using a popup blocker, you are essentially stealing their work. You're nothing more than a common thief. Sincerely, Ron Holiday."


Macromedia technology used to subvert blockers As mentioned above, users have had great success using the plug-in FlashBlock for Firefox to avoid the new, more persistent pop-unders. This is because many of the new ad delivery mechanisms use JavaScript embedded in Macromedia Flash elements to force the ads through.

For example, MacFixIt reader Charles Jenkins writes: "A few months ago, using Firefox under Windows, I went to a site that required either Shockwave or Flash, and once I installed the new Macromedia plug-in, I started getting popups there and at many other sites. I guessed that my browser was blocking JavaScript popups, but the sites had to be opening the windows with Macromedia commands...so I immediately removed Macromedia stuff from my computer and went back to popup-free surfing."

An example of this code is at: http://www.flashbax.com/flash_popup_windows.htm

In order to block this particular type of pop-under, you will need to either remove Macromedia Flash plug-ins and associated software from your system or use a blocking tool that can handle Macromedia content like PithHelmet."
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Old Feb 22, 2005, 05:26 PM   #17
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i gotta say though, i'm more likely to read a pop-under ad than a pop-up ad.
with pop ups i'd automatically close them because of the annoyance factor, but the last couple pop unders i've found myself saying "hmmm whats this" clever marketing, and since its not really a pop UP ad companies like Earthlink and AOL can still market their popUP blockers.
ha
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Old Feb 22, 2005, 07:42 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rueyeet
You'd think the advertisers would take the near-universal presence of pop-up blockers as a sign that people don't want to see pop-up ads and will not respond to them.
This past weekend, the pop-ups became so annoying on another Apple fan site, that one of its subscribers (me) threatened to boycott the site. Before the weekend was out, the pop-ups had disappeared. I hear that some ISPs are injecting pop-ups between some sites and their patrons. However, most of them are placed by the people running the sites.

The principle is simple. If a web site feels the need to support itself with pop-up advertising--fine. It is free to do so. I have pop-up blocking enabled. I will never see the ads. I am not part of the target audience for pop-up ads, anyway. If the site feels compelled to support itself with block-skirting pop-up ads, it will create an enemy. I will stop visiting the site. I will also take my dollar to the advertiser's competition or keep it in my pocket.

There is no Internet site that is so important to me that I will install software that I otherwise don't need just to stop it from infringing on my sensibilities. If other web patrons take the same position, then these rogue pop-ups will disappear as though they never existed.
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Old Feb 22, 2005, 07:54 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMe
This past weekend, the pop-ups became so annoying on another Apple fan site, that one of its subscribers (me) threatened to boycott the site. Before the weekend was out, the pop-ups had disappeared. I hear that some ISPs are injecting pop-ups between some sites and their patrons. However, most of them are placed by the people running the sites.

The principle is simple. If a web site feels the need to support itself with pop-up advertising--fine. It is free to do so. I have pop-up blocking enabled. I will never see the ads. I am not part of the target audience for pop-up ads, anyway. If the site feels compelled to support itself with block-skirting pop-up ads, it will create an enemy. I will stop visiting the site. I will also take my dollar to the advertiser's competition or keep it in my pocket.

There is no Internet site that is so important to me that I will install software that I otherwise don't need just to stop it from infringing on my sensibilities. If other web patrons take the same position, then these rogue pop-ups will disappear as though they never existed.
Yeah, MDN made a good move there...

By the way, the new security update DOES NOT fix the problem.
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