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Old Jan 3, 2013, 10:36 PM   #101
throAU
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Originally Posted by jjhoekstra View Post
I do not understand why anybody would want to have 16 Gb RAM. I have 16 Gb and it is utterly useless. Never ever have I seen my rMBP use more than 6-7 Gb. And that is using FCX and compressor and Parallels and Safari and Excel and Word at the same time. Buy 8 Gb and use the money you save for something nice.
And 16 Gb does slow wake-up from deep sleep by 4 seconds or so in comparison with 8 Gb.
Not everybody does as little with their machine as you do.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 11:01 PM   #102
el-John-o
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Interesting old thread dug up, but it's not THAT old. I am truly AMAZED at the prices from OWC though. I just got 16 gigs of RAM from Crucial for $80...
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 01:27 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by el-John-o View Post
Interesting old thread dug up, but it's not THAT old. I am truly AMAZED at the prices from OWC though. I just got 16 gigs of RAM from Crucial for $80...
Lol, no. Their prices are miserable, I can go to a BRICK AND MORTAR store, ie Microcenter or Fry's and get an 8GB stick for 30 bucks. (Check out Microcenter's store, seriously) 16GB kit for 60, and it is right down the street. OWC is the biggest ripoff on the planet for HDD upgrades, and is no bargain with RAM, but people around here seem to praise them to no end. Oh, well.

/rant
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 01:35 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by spyguy10709 View Post
Lol, no. Their prices are miserable, I can go to a BRICK AND MORTAR store, ie Microcenter or Fry's and get an 8GB stick for 30 bucks. (Check out Microcenter's store, seriously) 16GB kit for 60, and it is right down the street. OWC is the biggest ripoff on the planet for HDD upgrades, and is no bargain with RAM, but people around here seem to praise them to no end. Oh, well.

/rant
I love MicroCenter!

They are reasonable with some stuff. I have their Data Doubler, which is very well built and wasn't too expensive. But yeah, some stuff it stupid. Like their rMBP SSD upgrades, insanely and unnecessarily expensive.

They are just gouging their prices trying to convince everyone that they have stuff that will work best with their Mac, but there are lots of companies out there who sell RAM kits that (like the Crucial set I have) have even been tested and are advertised as for MacBook Pro models!
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 06:50 PM   #105
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But who needs 16Gb? And I speak from experience. My rMBP has 16 Gb and it NEVER uses more than 7GB and that is doing heavy duty video-editing and rendering and audio-editing at the same time. It will be years before 16Gb is essential. Save the money now and from that money get a new computer in 2-3 years.
And 16Gb slows wake-up time from deep sleep by about 4 secs in comparison of 8 Gb.
Just my personal experience...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by throAU View Post
Not everybody does as little with their machine as you do.
So give me an example of people doing more. What tool or combination of tools actually runs slow because there is only 8 Gb?
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 02:09 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjhoekstra View Post
But who needs 16Gb? And I speak from experience. My rMBP has 16 Gb and it NEVER uses more than 7GB and that is doing heavy duty video-editing and rendering and audio-editing at the same time. It will be years before 16Gb is essential. Save the money now and from that money get a new computer in 2-3 years.
And 16Gb slows wake-up time from deep sleep by about 4 secs in comparison of 8 Gb.
Just my personal experience...

----------



So give me an example of people doing more. What tool or combination of tools actually runs slow because there is only 8 Gb?
For me it's just future proofing. It's around $40 for an 8GB kit (since some MBP models only come with 4GB!) or around $60 for 16GB. When you upgrade it yourself and not through apple (Which I realize is not an option on the rMBP), it's pretty cheap. Why not?

I'll likely not use it either, but who knows. It's nice for virtual machines and the like, I rarely use even half even in intense applications, but what's $20 more to max it out? 3-4 years from now there will be faster, better technologies. But, my 3-4 year old (will be) MacBook Pro will still have enough horsepower to do what I want it to do, though not as well as a new machine. But, I certainly can't afford to upgrade every year. So, with 16 gigs of RAM, I'm ready for 3 or 4 or more years down the road when my machine is beginning to feel it's age and I'm not QUITE ready to upgrade.

Or, I'll never need it ever. But again, 4 gigs isn't enough, 8 gigs is only $20 less than 16, so why not?

Now on a rMBP, I would have left it at 8 gigs, simply because the RAM upgrade cost is just so expensive through Apple. It's not $20 to go from 8GB to 16GB on the rMBP!
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 01:00 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by el-John-o View Post
I love MicroCenter!

They are reasonable with some stuff. I have their Data Doubler, which is very well built and wasn't too expensive. But yeah, some stuff it stupid. Like their rMBP SSD upgrades, insanely and unnecessarily expensive.

They are just gouging their prices trying to convince everyone that they have stuff that will work best with their Mac, but there are lots of companies out there who sell RAM kits that (like the Crucial set I have) have even been tested and are advertised as for MacBook Pro models!
80 bucks for the data doubler... still effing ridiculous. I got a clone of it for 10 bucks on Amazon, and that works beautifully.

You don't need to have stuff "tested" for the Mac. If it's DDR3 and has the same/higher speed, it will work just fine on your Mac. That's what I dislike about the Apple 3rd party community --- Macs are PCs with OSX on them. That's the only difference. Even back in the day of the PowerPC, ram is ram is ram.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 02:55 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by spyguy10709 View Post
80 bucks for the data doubler... still effing ridiculous. I got a clone of it for 10 bucks on Amazon, and that works beautifully.

You don't need to have stuff "tested" for the Mac. If it's DDR3 and has the same/higher speed, it will work just fine on your Mac. That's what I dislike about the Apple 3rd party community --- Macs are PCs with OSX on them. That's the only difference. Even back in the day of the PowerPC, ram is ram is ram.
I'm aware, my point was that even RAM that has a marketing reason to be jacked up in price is significantly cheaper than OWC or Apple.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 10:31 PM   #109
throAU
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Originally Posted by jjhoekstra View Post

So give me an example of people doing more. What tool or combination of tools actually runs slow because there is only 8 Gb?
1. VMware + GNS3 to simulate an 2 active directory sites, with a WAN between them - is my personal use case where the more ram the better.
2. Alternatively, simulating trust relationships between AD domains, development lab for Exchange upgrades, etc.


There are plenty of uses for 16gb of RAM or more, if i had 32GB in my laptop i could certainly make use of it. I'm constantly hitting the limitations of 8GB at the moment at work and am likely to pop 16GB in my home machine (the MBP below) shortly so I can get things done at home instead.

Having a heap of RAM in my personal laptop means I can simulate a hell of a lot of stuff without needing to build a test lab.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 10:47 PM   #110
el-John-o
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Originally Posted by throAU View Post
1. VMware + GNS3 to simulate an 2 active directory sites, with a WAN between them - is my personal use case where the more ram the better.
2. Alternatively, simulating trust relationships between AD domains, development lab for Exchange upgrades, etc.


There are plenty of uses for 16gb of RAM or more, if i had 32GB in my laptop i could certainly make use of it. I'm constantly hitting the limitations of 8GB at the moment at work and am likely to pop 16GB in my home machine (the MBP below) shortly so I can get things done at home instead.

Having a heap of RAM in my personal laptop means I can simulate a hell of a lot of stuff without needing to build a test lab.
That's exactly it. The use for 16 gigs of RAM, or two 6 core CPU's in a Mac Pro, or a retina display on a laptop, are limited to certain needs.

What 95% of people do 99% of the time on their computers could be done with an iPad. It's what 95% of people do 1% of the time, or the other 5% do a little bit more often, that demands a desktop class computer (including laptops these days), faster CPU's, more RAM, etc.) Even some who push technology to the limits STILL check their email, browse facebook, check internet forums, shop online, etc. All things any cellphone from the last 5 years (or more) can do. It's the once in a while, niche, odd, intense situation you need it for.

Or, in the case of RAM, simply because the cost (when you do it yourself) is so much minimally more than an 8 gig upgrade.

In my own personal use though, it's being able to run applications like photoshop, while simultaneously running Linux and Windows 7 in two separate VM's on separate desktops (swiping between them like desktops, such a great way to use the 'full screen' apps feature!)

I could squeeze that into 8 gigs depending on what apps I'm running, or spill over into Virtual memory, but, when it's $20 more to go to 16 gigs over 8 gigs, why the heck not? It allows me to do those rare, once in a while tasks like that. Or, heck, just be lazy and leave the VM's running even when I'm not using them. It's easily worth $20.

Plus, I've got a 500 gig SSD (well, two 256 gigs in RAID 0), and I use about 120 gigs right now. How silly would it be to have a 128GB SSD, then swap it to a 256GB SSD when that gets full, etc. etc., Why not just get setup with 500 gigs of storage knowing that, down the road, I might use it? Again, the costs of buying it all at once is cheaper than incremental upgrades.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 10:51 PM   #111
throAU
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Originally Posted by el-John-o View Post
I could squeeze that into 8 gigs depending on what apps I'm running, or spill over into Virtual memory, but, when it's $20 more to go to 16 gigs over 8 gigs, why the heck not? It allows me to do those rare, once in a while tasks like that. Or, heck, just be lazy and leave the VM's running even when I'm not using them. It's easily worth $20.

Exactly.

I'd also make the point that if you have the machine open to upgrade, the $20 is even less relevant. It's say, 30-60 minutes of my time to unplug the machine, unscrew it, pop the old RAM out, pop the new RAM in, put the box back together, power it up and run memory tests for a while to verify it's all good.

I'd rather not have to do that again in the near future, and even if it was a FREE upgrade from 8-16gb in 6 months time, it is still a waste of my time opening the machine again when I could have avoided it.

If you're paying someone to install the memory - you're nuts to bother with anything less than 16 GB now.


The only reason i currently run 8 is because when I upgraded, 16GB was $1600, as per the earlier posts in this thread.

At the current price, If 16GB of RAM instead of 8 saves me 20 minutes in my job over the course of it's life, it has paid for itself.
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 04:48 PM   #112
jjhoekstra
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Originally Posted by el-John-o View Post

I could squeeze that into 8 gigs depending on what apps I'm running, or spill over into Virtual memory, but, when it's $20 more to go to 16 gigs over 8 gigs, why the heck not? It allows me to do those rare, once in a while tasks like that. Or, heck, just be lazy and leave the VM's running even when I'm not using them. It's easily worth $20.

Plus, I've got a 500 gig SSD (well, two 256 gigs in RAID 0), and I use about 120 gigs right now. How silly would it be to have a 128GB SSD, then swap it to a 256GB SSD when that gets full, etc. etc., Why not just get setup with 500 gigs of storage knowing that, down the road, I might use it? Again, the costs of buying it all at once is cheaper than incremental upgrades.
Well lets have a bit of context here: we are talking about 2012 MBPs. It is not $20 but $1600 to go from 4 to 16Gb, and more than $1400 to go from 8 to 16Gb. For that kind of money in most cases it is more economical to keep the money in your pocket and buy a next machine 18-24 months later. You than benefit from a laptop which is faster and bigger in all area's like CPU, RAM, SSD and bus-systems.

I do understand that there are (highly specialistic) combinations of software where 8Gb is a limit. But if that limit is really relevant, ie in a professional environment with hourly rates and deadlines, why use a laptop? Get a MacPro with 32Gb.

The cost of buying a lot of SSD at once is only cheaper (than incremental upgrades) if you fill/need the extra space fairly soon. Otherwise the ever decreasing prices of SSDs make incremental upgrades cheaper.
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 05:38 PM   #113
el-John-o
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Well lets have a bit of context here: we are talking about 2012 MBPs. It is not $20 but $1600 to go from 4 to 16Gb, and more than $1400 to go from 8 to 16Gb. For that kind of money in most cases it is more economical to keep the money in your pocket and buy a next machine 18-24 months later. You than benefit from a laptop which is faster and bigger in all area's like CPU, RAM, SSD and bus-systems.

I do understand that there are (highly specialistic) combinations of software where 8Gb is a limit. But if that limit is really relevant, ie in a professional environment with hourly rates and deadlines, why use a laptop? Get a MacPro with 32Gb.

The cost of buying a lot of SSD at once is only cheaper (than incremental upgrades) if you fill/need the extra space fairly soon. Otherwise the ever decreasing prices of SSDs make incremental upgrades cheaper.
I AM talking about a MacBook Pro, though I'm not understanding where you're getting your figures from.

If you upgrade the RAM yourself, $60 gets you 16 gigs. (The $20 quote was because it's about $40 for an 8 gig kit, so, 4 gigs isn't enough, 8 gigs for 40.. or.. 16 gigs for 20 bucks more) I realize that's not feasible on the retina model, hence my statement that the same wouldn't be true (for me) on a Retina model.

I really don't understand where you're getting your numbers though, unless I'm misunderstanding you. Even through Apple, having them install it, you can upgrade from the 4GB base model to 16GB for $500. But, again, that's awfully silly. It's very easy to install RAM in a MBP. A handful of 00 screws and push in a couple plastic tabs. In fact, Apple even includes instructions on how to do it in your users manual in the box.

As far as the Mac Pro comment.. sure.. if it's all day every day. But for a lot less money, you can get a machine that CAN. Again, your question is 'why have 16 gigs in a MBP' and the answer is 'For those once in a blue moon, very rare instances' These modern Ivy Bridge CPU's are very good and perform very well, so they can handle applications that, just a few years ago, you'd need a desktop for. A desktop can do it better, but realistically, a MacBook Pro CAN handle powerful RAM hungry applications today. It's not economical to have a Mac Pro that you rarely need the performance for. An inexpensive upgrade to a mobile computer gives you the ability to better handle multiple instances of powerful applications, and allows you to have desktop class performance on the go. Many people need to run high end software in a mobile environment.

Again, it's not NEEDED for most people, but it is convenient, and for $60 for the upgrade (again, only 20 bucks more than 8 gigs) why the heck not?

EDIT: Unless you're talking about the OWC upgrade kits? Those are just ridiculous, and unnecessary. They are priced extremely high because waaay back in the PowerPC Days, SOME RAM didn't play nice on Mac computers, and so you got 'Macintosh' RAM to make sure. It's not as necessary anymore. But OWC plays on that 'we're compatible' schtick. But guess what, several OTHER brands DO make Ram specifically marketed for the MacBook Pro. For example, Crucial has a 16GB, Macintosh kit, for $68 on NewEgg.
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 06:10 PM   #114
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I saw on OWC that they've tested 16GB on a Macbook Pro 13'' from 2010(they say its the MacbookPro 7,1 they tested) and I was wondering if anyone has tested it yet? Might consider putting the 16GB on mine since its now available to it(according to OWC).
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 04:04 PM   #115
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But who needs 16Gb? And I speak from experience. My rMBP has 16 Gb and it NEVER uses more than 7GB and that is doing heavy duty video-editing and rendering and audio-editing at the same time. It will be years before 16Gb is essential. Save the money now and from that money get a new computer in 2-3 years.
And 16Gb slows wake-up time from deep sleep by about 4 secs in comparison of 8 Gb.
Just my personal experience...

----------



So give me an example of people doing more. What tool or combination of tools actually runs slow because there is only 8 Gb?
I need 16GB. I support Windows and Macs in a domain environment. I can't very well be asking people 'please hang on while I reboot into Windows' or vise-versa, so I run them side-by-side with VMWare Fusion. With stock 8GB I was able to give 4GB to each OS but that's a pretty small amount by today's standards (and considering I'm currently running 13 management-type programs just in Windows), so I upgraded to 16GB total and gave 8GB to each. The difference was night and day.

After that I put in a 7200RPM hybrid drive and it got even better...

When I first saw those prices on the front page I was sure it was a typo until I read the date...
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 05:30 PM   #116
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They(OWC) say the MBP 7,1 supports 16GB,does anyone know if it works with other brands too?
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 05:33 PM   #117
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They(OWC) say the MBP 7,1 supports 16GB,does anyone know if it works with other brands too?
Yes should work with other brands too. Just find one with similar specs.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 07:21 AM   #118
DMH3006
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Yes should work with other brands too. Just find one with similar specs.
Crucial doesn't have one with similar specs,only ones that are similar are these but they're faster the ones my Mac uses(1033 vs 1333),do you think thats an issue?
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 02:33 PM   #119
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Price Drop

Crucial and Amazon are now selling 16GBs for about 70
The brand doesnt matter just make sure you get the right hardware specs.
Use Crucial's built in System Scanner to make sure you get the right one then shop around!

If you want to know how to fit it heres a link to a tutorial!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbX3o...lK-OAdKE9_JLGm
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 03:55 AM   #120
throAU
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I recently installed regular pc-spec DDR3-1600 in my MBP to go to 16GB, and it works like a charm. Memory test passed just fine, has been running for several weeks now without a hiccup.

The difference between 8 and 16 is significant even in general use, due to the aggressive disk caching that Lion and Mountain Lion do.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 04:58 PM   #121
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Price will take a dramatic hit just give it 6-12 months.
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Old Mar 2, 2013, 03:26 AM   #122
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Prices are messed here ..

enough said :

http://www.alternate.de/html/listing.../?tk=7&lk=3329


100 =about $130
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Old Mar 2, 2013, 08:55 PM   #123
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Great! Now let's bring on that 17" rMBP with 4 DIMM slots.
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Old Mar 3, 2013, 02:23 AM   #124
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I do not understand why anybody would want to have 16 Gb RAM. I have 16 Gb and it is utterly useless. Never ever have I seen my rMBP use more than 6-7 Gb. And that is using FCX and compressor and Parallels and Safari and Excel and Word at the same time. Buy 8 Gb and use the money you save for something nice.
And 16 Gb does slow wake-up from deep sleep by 4 seconds or so in comparison with 8 Gb.
So I should buy a 8gb rMBP when my current MBP with 8 gb is already maxing out with page outs.

My next rMBP will be 16 gb for sure.
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Old Mar 5, 2013, 03:33 PM   #125
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Im running my virtual lab of 10 VMs, and I really hope for 16 SODIMMs to pop up in near future.
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