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Old May 3, 2011, 02:06 PM   #101
Transporteur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetjaguar View Post
wow my 2010 2.8 quad and 24gb of ram only scores a 8500 on geekbench
Do you really care what a benchmark tells you?
Personally, I replace machines when they can't do my tasks fast enough any more, not because a benchmark tells me my machine is slow.
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Old May 3, 2011, 02:07 PM   #102
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nah i dont really care .. was just saying .. ill be upgrading my cpu soon enough anyways
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Old May 4, 2011, 09:23 PM   #103
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interesting!!!!

i have a late 2007 quad core, 3GHZ, is it possible to do the same with this or did the MOBO change between then and 2010?
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Old May 4, 2011, 10:40 PM   #104
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i have a late 2007 quad core, 3GHZ, is it possible to do the same with this or did the MOBO change between then and 2010?
Yeah this is for the 2010. very easy to turn the base machine into a beast.
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Old May 5, 2011, 07:47 AM   #105
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Well I just upgraded my 2.8 base machine to the 3.2 hex. Have to say the install itself is a piece of cake and anybody with experience in building PCs should be able to handle it.

For some reason my geekbench score is only 13500 however. It's not something that I'm worried about but I'm wondering what the difference is. Are you guys running the 32 or 64bit benchmark? (I don't have the commercial version so I only ran the 32bit). I am also running 1066mhz memory, could this explain the difference?
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Old May 5, 2011, 09:40 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vvrinne View Post
Well I just upgraded my 2.8 base machine to the 3.2 hex. Have to say the install itself is a piece of cake and anybody with experience in building PCs should be able to handle it.

For some reason my geekbench score is only 13500 however. It's not something that I'm worried about but I'm wondering what the difference is. Are you guys running the 32 or 64bit benchmark? (I don't have the commercial version so I only ran the 32bit). I am also running 1066mhz memory, could this explain the difference?
I am running it with 64 bit. and 32gb 1333ghz ram that downclocks to 1066ghz and a ssd.
score is 15357 see first thumbnail.

I ran it in 32bit score is 13644 see second thumbnail
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Old May 5, 2011, 10:03 AM   #107
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Ah thanks for that. So the 32bit scores are in-line what you are getting.

I've also replaced the system disk with an SSD and I have to say that now with everything in place this machine is really a beast
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Old May 5, 2011, 03:50 PM   #108
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If I understand correctly, if one replaces the cpu as discussed above, there is no absolute need to replace the 12 GB stock RAM (1066) or replace fans? One can simply swap out the CPU (3.2 hex) and change or adjust nothing else? I have the Quad Core 3.2 and wouldn't want to go any further than the instructions above in terms of switching the cpus. If one needs to replace fans or make other adjustments I would be a bit out of my league.
Thanks

Last edited by ejosepha; May 5, 2011 at 03:56 PM.
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Old May 5, 2011, 05:02 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by ejosepha View Post
If I understand correctly, if one replaces the cpu as discussed above, there is no absolute need to replace the 12 GB stock RAM (1066) or replace fans? One can simply swap out the CPU (3.2 hex) and change or adjust nothing else? I have the Quad Core 3.2 and wouldn't want to go any further than the instructions above in terms of switching the cpus. If one needs to replace fans or make other adjustments I would be a bit out of my league.
Thanks
30 minutes work if you have done it 6 or 7 times less then 1 hour for the first time.

1 part out the quad 3.2


1 part in the hex 3.2


hold on to the quad 3.2 for a month or so to be sure you did it right.


then if you want sell it on ebay



http://cgi.ebay.com/Intel-Xeon-W3570...ht_1782wt_1141

used ones sell for about 300 to 350 this means for under 300 or maybe 325 you will really improve your machine.

here is link for the hex 3.2


http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Intel-Xeon-U...ht_2969wt_1189
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Old May 6, 2011, 01:50 AM   #110
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[QUOTE=philipma1957;12522000]30 minutes work if you have done it 6 or 7 times less then 1 hour for the first time.

1 part out the quad 3.2


1 part in the hex 3.2


hold on to the quad 3.2 for a month or so to be sure you did it right.


then if you want sell it on ebay



http://cgi.ebay.com/Intel-Xeon-W3570...ht_1782wt_1141

used ones sell for about 300 to 350 this means for under 300 or maybe 325 you will really improve your machine.

here is link for the hex 3.2


http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Intel-Xeon-U...ht_2969wt_1189[/QUOTE

I think my cpu is the 3565. But will I be able to leave fans and ram as they are? Just swap the cpus and everything else will run as stock i.e. fans, temps, etc.? No other adjustments or tweaks?
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Old May 6, 2011, 04:01 AM   #111
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[QUOTE=ejosepha;12524132]
Quote:
Originally Posted by philipma1957 View Post


[

I think my cpu is the 3565. But will I be able to leave fans and ram as they are? Just swap the cpus and everything else will run as stock i.e. fans, temps, etc.? No other adjustments or tweaks?
First off don't do the upgrade if you don't need it and you are nervous about doing it. Second off you do have the w3565 and a new one on ebay is about 320

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Intel-Xeon-U...ht_3201wt_1250


So you would get 200 to 250 for yours when and if you sell it.

THE hex 3.2 and the quad 2.8 cpus both pull the same wattage so they have just about the same heat issues. I don't know if you do endless encoding like handbrake. When I did cpu test I maxed all core at 100 percent which is what the test is designed to do. The machine ran hot until I turned the fan up. This occurred due to the settings I had used for normal usage I set the settings at low fans. I have used my own settings for years. I have not tested the mac pro's auto fan settings for this mod. But I know when the machine gets hot in mac osx the fans turn up speed. Since I want a very quiet machine I have very low manual fan settings under most of my use.

Handbrake will make your machine run hot. Myself I purchased istats for 15 bucks. This program is not needed but I like the see my computers stats. I also like to turn my fans down to keep the room quiet. My machine runs fine without heat issues. If I do a very heavy duty cpu job I turn my fans up. You don't have to do this. I do it more to lower the fans even when I had the quad 2.8 in. I like a quiet machine.

Last edited by philipma1957; May 6, 2011 at 08:34 AM.
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Old May 6, 2011, 10:28 AM   #112
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[QUOTE=philipma1957;12524430]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejosepha View Post

First off don't do the upgrade if you don't need it and you are nervous about doing it. Second off you do have the w3565 and a new one on ebay is about 320

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Intel-Xeon-U...ht_3201wt_1250


So you would get 200 to 250 for yours when and if you sell it.

THE hex 3.2 and the quad 2.8 cpus both pull the same wattage so they have just about the same heat issues. I don't know if you do endless encoding like handbrake. When I did cpu test I maxed all core at 100 percent which is what the test is designed to do. The machine ran hot until I turned the fan up. This occurred due to the settings I had used for normal usage I set the settings at low fans. I have used my own settings for years. I have not tested the mac pro's auto fan settings for this mod. But I know when the machine gets hot in mac osx the fans turn up speed. Since I want a very quiet machine I have very low manual fan settings under most of my use.

Handbrake will make your machine run hot. Myself I purchased istats for 15 bucks. This program is not needed but I like the see my computers stats. I also like to turn my fans down to keep the room quiet. My machine runs fine without heat issues. If I do a very heavy duty cpu job I turn my fans up. You don't have to do this. I do it more to lower the fans even when I had the quad 2.8 in. I like a quiet machine.
Thanks for the advice and the response. I guess I am just wondering if the default settings for the 3.2 quad will be applied to the 3.2 hex or whether this should be adjusted in some way or not. I suppose if they both pull about the same wattage, as you say, their heat characteristics would be similar.
Would it really be worth buying new ram running at the 1333 or not much difference with the stock 12gb that I currently have (OWC Ram)
thanks again.
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Old May 6, 2011, 10:46 AM   #113
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[QUOTE=ejosepha;12525883]
Quote:
Originally Posted by philipma1957 View Post
Thanks for the advice and the response. I guess I am just wondering if the default settings for the 3.2 quad will be applied to the 3.2 hex or whether this should be adjusted in some way or not. I suppose if they both pull about the same wattage, as you say, their heat characteristics would be similar.
Would it really be worth buying new ram running at the 1333 or not much difference with the stock 12gb that I currently have (OWC Ram)
thanks again.
no don't buy different ram. the 3.2hex will down clock it to 1066. if you have 1066 you are good to go.

Also don't worry about 1066 vs 1333 ram for 2010 mac pros. the latency for 1066 ram is 7 the latency for 1333 ram is 9.

7 latency is faster then 9 latency

so the the latency of 7 just about makes up for the clock speed difference.
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Old May 15, 2011, 03:20 AM   #114
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I'd like to ask the moderators to sticky this thread. It is a great how-to and if this is not sticky-worthy, I don't know what is!

Plus, I have been referring to it elsewhere and it gets tedious having to look it up everytime.
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Old May 15, 2011, 08:23 AM   #115
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To go with a sticky post idea for this thread how about a new section in the forum. Mac DIY Mods It could be under the apple hardware spot.
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Old May 16, 2011, 10:04 AM   #116
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Some questions:

Quote:
Originally Posted by philipma1957 View Post
Please see replies to certain numbers.
13) Replace hex screws from step four. Same process. See reply ☞ ( Very important to rotate the screws when making the heatsink tight )

1. What is the difference between tightening the hex screw a quarter turn each at a time until tight and "rotating the screws"?
2. I am assuming from this thread that one can just install the cpu and the system of fan and temperature controls that is the default Apple system will recognized the new cpu and automatically do as it did with the original 3.2 quad cpu that I currently have. I won't run into a situation where the system boots up and I will have to scramble to install a fan and temp control system. So far I am happy with the Apple system currently running.
3. Have there been any failures of people who have tried this installation and if so, what happened?
4. Earlier in the thread someone mentioned that Apple could in the future render the cpu W3670 inoperative because it isn't one of the Apple for sale options. Has that happened to anyone yet?

I am buying the cpu this week and will install when delivered next week.
Thanks

Last edited by ejosepha; May 16, 2011 at 01:49 PM.
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Old May 16, 2011, 05:12 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejosepha View Post
13) Replace hex screws from step four. Same process. See reply ☞ ( Very important to rotate the screws when making the heatsink tight )

1. What is the difference between tightening the hex screw a quarter turn each at a time until tight and "rotating the screws"?
2. I am assuming from this thread that one can just install the cpu and the system of fan and temperature controls that is the default Apple system will recognized the new cpu and automatically do as it did with the original 3.2 quad cpu that I currently have. I won't run into a situation where the system boots up and I will have to scramble to install a fan and temp control system. So far I am happy with the Apple system currently running.
3. Have there been any failures of people who have tried this installation and if so, what happened?
4. Earlier in the thread someone mentioned that Apple could in the future render the cpu W3670 inoperative because it isn't one of the Apple for sale options. Has that happened to anyone yet?

I am buying the cpu this week and will install when delivered next week.
Thanks
1) there are 5 screws/hex nuts what ever. If you fully tighten 1 screw without doing any other screw the heatsink will be lopsided and never correctly mate with the cpu. So the safe way to do it is ;
a quarter turn on one screw upper left (1)
then a quarter turn on the opposite screw lower right (2).
then a quarter turn upper right (3)
then a quarter turn lower left (4)
then a quarter turn on the far left middle(5)
doing those 5 screw 1/4 turn would be one rotation.
repeat all 5 again 1/4 turn two rotations.

this is tedious and takes at least 5 or six rotations of a 1/4 turn, but it is safe! it will result in an even mating of the heat sink with the cpu!

2) if you install the cpu and you were using the oem stock fan controls the system should just keep doing that. I just like to use iStat I was a long time mac mini user and did not like the osx fan controls on the mini.

IF YOUR HOME IS HOT AND IF YOU REALLY PUSH YOUR MAC PRO OSX FAN CONTROLS ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH! This is my belief my opinion. Many people agree with it. This would be true with the stock quad as well as the hex mod. Both pull the same juice(watts). Both have the same max heat specs.

3) Not to my knowledge

4) I have a fully updated mac pro and the hex 3.2 still works for me. I keep a second osx always one update less then current. Just in case that happens. If it does I will be talking about it.


5) you asked in another thread about artic silver


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...&redirect=true


I used this kit. I used the cleaner on the old cpu then the prep. I then sold the old cpu on ebay for about $200. I used the cleaner on the new cpu then the prep.

I then squeeze out some on the new cpu and used my gloved finger to spread it evenly. I have done this on more then 100 amplifiers That I built for music.

The instructions don't say to do it. they say make a lump in the dead center and when you tighten the heat-sink the artic silver will be spread.

Their way is fine I am used to my way and it works for amps because many heat-sinks are far less precise then the mac pros.

Remember somewhere in this thread I mention I have only done 1 cpu upgrade and this is it! I have done hundreds of ram installs hdd installs case mods and many audio amps and speakers. I can solder and have a decent background in electronics all self taught do to being color blind (not complete just partial).


Most trade schools will not teach color blind people electronic repair. At least this used to be true in the 70's and 80's.
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Old May 16, 2011, 05:38 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philipma1957 View Post
1) there are 5 screws/hex nuts what ever. If you fully tighten 1 screw without doing any other screw the heatsink will be lopsided and never correctly mate with the cpu. So the safe way to do it is ;
a quarter turn on one screw upper left (1)
then a quarter turn on the opposite screw lower right (2).
then a quarter turn upper right (3)
then a quarter turn lower left (4)
then a quarter turn on the far left middle(5)
doing those 5 screw 1/4 turn would be one rotation.
repeat all 5 again 1/4 turn two rotations.

this is tedious and takes at least 5 or six rotations of a 1/4 turn, but it is safe! it will result in an even mating of the heat sink with the cpu!

2) if you install the cpu and you were using the oem stock fan controls the system should just keep doing that. I just like to use iStat I was a long time mac mini user and did not like the osx fan controls on the mini.

IF YOUR HOME IS HOT AND IF YOU REALLY PUSH YOUR MAC PRO OSX FAN CONTROLS ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH! This is my belief my opinion. Many people agree with it. This would be true with the stock quad as well as the hex mod. Both pull the same juice(watts). Both have the same max heat specs.

3) Not to my knowledge

4) I have a fully updated mac pro and the hex 3.2 still works for me. I keep a second osx always one update less then current. Just in case that happens. If it does I will be talking about it.


5) you asked in another thread about artic silver


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...&redirect=true


I used this kit. I used the cleaner on the old cpu then the prep. I then sold the old cpu on ebay for about $200. I used the cleaner on the new cpu then the prep.

I then squeeze out some on the new cpu and used my gloved finger to spread it evenly. I have done this on more then 100 amplifiers That I built for music.

The instructions don't say to do it. they say make a lump in the dead center and when you tighten the heat-sink the artic silver will be spread.

Their way is fine I am used to my way and it works for amps because many heat-sinks are far less precise then the mac pros.

Remember somewhere in this thread I mention I have only done 1 cpu upgrade and this is it! I have done hundreds of ram installs hdd installs case mods and many audio amps and speakers. I can solder and have a decent background in electronics all self taught do to being color blind (not complete just partial).


Most trade schools will not teach color blind people electronic repair. At least this used to be true in the 70's and 80's.
Thanks so much for the precision. For the heck of it I went to the Arctic Thermal paste site and they also talked about tinting the heatsink with a credit card and paste in prep, as well as putting a line of paste down the center of the cpu covering the cores. They called it a vertical application as opposed to a spread application. It seems that spreading the thermal application your way would at least assure a complete coverage as opposed to a single line of paste.

http://www.arcticsilver.com/pdf/appm..._line_v1.1.pdf
http://www.arcticsilver.com/intel_ap...n_method.html#
Might be overkill, but thought it might be of interest.
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Old May 18, 2011, 03:58 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philipma1957 View Post
1) there are 5 screws/hex nuts what ever. If you fully tighten 1 screw without doing any other screw the heatsink will be lopsided and never correctly mate with the cpu. So the safe way to do it is ;
a quarter turn on one screw upper left (1)
then a quarter turn on the opposite screw lower right (2).
then a quarter turn upper right (3)
then a quarter turn lower left (4)
then a quarter turn on the far left middle(5)
doing those 5 screw 1/4 turn would be one rotation.
repeat all 5 again 1/4 turn two rotations.

this is tedious and takes at least 5 or six rotations of a 1/4 turn, but it is safe! it will result in an even mating of the heat sink with the cpu!

2) if you install the cpu and you were using the oem stock fan controls the system should just keep doing that. I just like to use iStat I was a long time mac mini user and did not like the osx fan controls on the mini.

IF YOUR HOME IS HOT AND IF YOU REALLY PUSH YOUR MAC PRO OSX FAN CONTROLS ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH! This is my belief my opinion. Many people agree with it. This would be true with the stock quad as well as the hex mod. Both pull the same juice(watts). Both have the same max heat specs.

3) Not to my knowledge

4) I have a fully updated mac pro and the hex 3.2 still works for me. I keep a second osx always one update less then current. Just in case that happens. If it does I will be talking about it.


5) you asked in another thread about artic silver


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...&redirect=true


I used this kit. I used the cleaner on the old cpu then the prep. I then sold the old cpu on ebay for about $200. I used the cleaner on the new cpu then the prep.

I then squeeze out some on the new cpu and used my gloved finger to spread it evenly. I have done this on more then 100 amplifiers That I built for music.

The instructions don't say to do it. they say make a lump in the dead center and when you tighten the heat-sink the artic silver will be spread.

Their way is fine I am used to my way and it works for amps because many heat-sinks are far less precise then the mac pros.

Remember somewhere in this thread I mention I have only done 1 cpu upgrade and this is it! I have done hundreds of ram installs hdd installs case mods and many audio amps and speakers. I can solder and have a decent background in electronics all self taught do to being color blind (not complete just partial).


Most trade schools will not teach color blind people electronic repair. At least this used to be true in the 70's and 80's.
I have ordered the cpu from the ebay site you refer to above and the cleaner, prep and thermal paste from Amazon. Will receive everything by the middle of next week. I am in France and it takes a bit longer for delivery.
By the way, did you use the cotton pads to clean off the original cpu before pulling it out, with a drop of cleaner on each pad, (as you did with copper heatsink), or just use the Qtips? I presume you used the same method for the the heatsink and cpu, but wanted to be sure. I assume the Qtips were for hard to reach corners or areas.
As per your instructions, will clean and prep newly installed cpu as well before adding the thermal paste.
By the way, in the event that this first timer gets a bit befuddled during the installation, is there a way to get a quick question to you. If not, I'll just post and wait.
Thanks again and will keep you posted.

Last edited by ejosepha; May 18, 2011 at 04:19 PM.
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Old May 18, 2011, 04:32 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejosepha View Post
I have ordered the cpu from the ebay site you refer to above and the cleaner, prep and thermal paste from Amazon. Will receive everything by the middle of next week. I am in France and it takes a bit longer for delivery.
By the way, did you use the cotton pads to clean off the original cpu before pulling it out, with a drop of cleaner on each pad, (as you did with copper heatsink), or just use the Qtips? I presume you used the same method for the the heatsink and cpu, but wanted to be sure. I assume the Qtips were for hard to reach corners or areas.
As per your instructions, will clean and prep newly installed cpu as well before adding the thermal paste.
By the way, in the event that this first timer gets a bit befuddled during the installation, is there a way to get a quick question to you. If not, I'll just post and wait.
Thanks again and will keep you posted.
I wiped the heat sink with the cotton pads and I wiped the cpu with the pads.

The paste was still soft and 90 percent came off with no cleaner the rest was with the cleaners and the q-tips.

when you lift the cpu out don't use the cotton pads! lift it out with a latex glove so no cotton sticks to socket pins.

I look at the site most every week day 9 to 5 new york time. I am guessing that is 2pm to 10pm french time. The day you want to start send me a few pm's . phil
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Old May 19, 2011, 08:04 AM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philipma1957 View Post
I wiped the heat sink with the cotton pads and I wiped the cpu with the pads.

The paste was still soft and 90 percent came off with no cleaner the rest was with the cleaners and the q-tips.

when you lift the cpu out don't use the cotton pads! lift it out with a latex glove so no cotton sticks to socket pins.

I look at the site most every week day 9 to 5 new york time. I am guessing that is 2pm to 10pm french time. The day you want to start send me a few pm's . phil
Thanks very much again.
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Old May 25, 2011, 12:16 AM   #122
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I upgraded my 2010 2.8Ghz Quad today and the process was very easy. If you have experience with building PCs the job is very easy. I already notice a difference in speed, especially in Handbrake.

I was getting on average 70-79 FPS when encoding using the Apple TV setting with the 2.8 GHZ Quad. Now I'm getting 90-99 FPS with the new 3.2Ghz Hexa using the same Apple TV setting.

Aperture export to slideshow (720p .m4v) took 20 minutes with the 2.8Ghz and around 12 minutes with the 3.2 hexa.

Thanks Phillip for posting such a great series of instructions.
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Old May 25, 2011, 12:56 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philipma1957 View Post
Yeah, I don't think it kills warranty, but by saying It does I do feel morally safer since I really do not know for sure..



I did not want to say that but I am holding on to my quad 2.8 for a while. if you look at the color of the oem heat-sink paste and the arctic silver paste in the above photos it looks like the same color and who is to say what paste was used at the factory.
wont they know by the serial number what CPU's came with your device?
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Old May 25, 2011, 06:37 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yauzers619 View Post
I upgraded my 2010 2.8Ghz Quad today and the process was very easy. If you have experience with building PCs the job is very easy. I already notice a difference in speed, especially in Handbrake.

I was getting on average 70-79 FPS when encoding using the Apple TV setting with the 2.8 GHZ Quad. Now I'm getting 90-99 FPS with the new 3.2Ghz Hexa using the same Apple TV setting.

Aperture export to slideshow (720p .m4v) took 20 minutes with the 2.8Ghz and around 12 minutes with the 3.2 hexa.

Thanks Phillip for posting such a great series of instructions.
You are welcome. It was kind of fun to do as this type of good value upgrade in a mac is hard to find. When I realized it would be a big improvement for pretty low cost, I decide to try and really document it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by cjgonzales1900 View Post
wont they know by the serial number what CPU's came with your device?
My original point was the heatsink paste color on the oem cpu was the same as the new heatsink paste color and that if you swapped the oem cpu back the heatsink paste color would be a perfect match.
If the oem cpu is back in place along with the same color heatsink paste how would anyone know you had swapped cpu out then back in? Another way to look at it is if the machine had three oem 1gb sticks of ram you put in three 8gb sticks then put the three 1gb sticks back no one would know anything was ever done. If you bring the machine back in with a hex core 3.2 installed the tech will know a different cpu is in it. I held on to the oem quad 2.8 for a month then I sold it.

If I bring the machine in for repairs I have decided to bring it in with the hex 3.2 just to see what the techs will say. This swap is well documented on this thread and I have read the warranty about a dozen times. I am convinced I should be covered. I feel since the part can be purchased from real sellers like newegg amazon buy.com etc and since it can be installed in under 20 minutes without breaking any seals on the machine it meets the definition of a replacement part like swapping a 3tb hdd for the oem 1tb hdd.

Now remember I am reading the USA Applecare agreement and I am not a lawyer. I can not speak for any other set of rules in another country and I am not certain that bringing the machine in with a hex 3.2 cpu in it would be covered.

Putting back the oem 2.8 should not be a problem and as far as the cpu serial number it does not appear to be recorded by apple. The machine hardware is and the processor tray is. Meaning that any quad 2.8 of the same make and model should work. (also not sure about this)
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Old May 25, 2011, 08:08 PM   #125
DonMega
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gulf Coast, USA
It works!

Philip,

on behalf of a friend of mine, I'd like to say thank you. He was regretting the purchase of the base Mac Pro after I bought my 3.33 Hex. I told him about your upgrade and he was excited to try it. He didn't have the funds just yet to do it, so, I sprang for the w3670 and tools and it all arrived today around lunch. We installed it during lunch, in about 35 minutes. It was just sooo easy! His GeekBench score went from 10017 right before we shutdown to do the swap to 15453 after. His CPU temp went from 99 to 94 at idle. Most importantly, he feels like the machine is as responsive as mine and he is happy with his purchase.

His machine is a refurb from Apple so he will come in pretty inexpensive for the upgrade. I'm splitting the cost with him because he does some post-processing work for me, so, we both win. Thanks again, your DIY was invaluable.
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