What Would You Define as an Advanced Culture?

[Huntn]

I want you to close your eyes and imagine the future, possibly something like iRobot, A.I., or Star Trek the Next Generation and then try to describe what you imagine would be the characteristics of an advanced culture populated by human beings.

You know machines are going to take over most manual labor jobs and manufacturing. Computers most of the computations. Maybe they will even gain self awareness! However, besides being turned into a power source, by machines bent on ruling the earth, what kind of society do you imagine will be able to function and stay viable with lots of humans and few jobs? Will traditional capitalism work? Will this give an edge to socialism? What about benefits like education and health care?

With machines doing most of the grunt work, will this free human beings to simply explore their intellectual and physical potential? The flip side is how will we support themselves? If you can't earn a living in an old fashioned way, it seems like we are going to have be some kind of communal society. Or are we going to plunge into anarchy and a breakdown of society with everyone fighting for their piece of the pie? What do you think?

[Joshuarocks]

Originally Posted by Huntn

I want you to close your eyes and imagine the future, possibly something like iRobot, A.I., or Star Trek the Next Generation and then try to describe what you imagine would be the characteristics of an advanced culture populated by human beings.

You know machines are going to take over most manual labor jobs and manufacturing. Computers most of the computations. Maybe they will even gain self awareness! However, besides being turned into a power source, by machines bent on ruling the earth, what kind of society do you imagine will be able to function and stay viable with lots of humans and few jobs? Will traditional capitalism work? Will this give an edge to socialism? What about benefits like education and health care?

With machines doing most of the grunt work, will this free human beings to simply explore their intellectual and physical potential? The flip side is how will we support themselves? If you can't earn a living in an old fashioned way, it seems like we are going to have be some kind of communal society. Or are we going to plunge into anarchy and a breakdown of society with everyone fighting for their piece of the pie? What do you think?

Are you just saying this to mock capitalism or socialism, or are you onto something that could happen in our global world we are in right now?

[vipergts2207]

As defined by wikipedia, "a technological singularity is a hypothetical event occurring when technological progress becomes so rapid and the growth of artificial intelligence is so great that the future after the singularity becomes qualitatively different and harder to predict."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity

As you can see it's kind of hard to give you a meaningful answer. Supposedly we'll reach the singularity around 2045. I'll be 57 then (hopefully). The next few decades will certainly be interesting if you ask me.

[Mac'nCheese]

Two words:

Warp drive.

[flopticalcube]

I'm sure there is a Star Trek episode that deals with this.

[leekohler]

Asa others have said, the Star Trek way of life would be very cool- a place where money is no longer needed, and people work together in order to gain knowledge and achieve goals.

[Satori]

Widespread compassion.

[flopticalcube]

Originally Posted by leekohler

Asa others have said, the Star Trek way of life would be very cool- a place where money is no longer needed, and people work together in order to gain knowledge and achieve goals.

I'm sure we'll find something to squabble over.

[codymac]

Originally Posted by Huntn

With machines doing most of the grunt work, will this free human beings to simply explore their intellectual and physical potential? The flip side is how will we support themselves? If you can't earn a living in an old fashioned way, it seems like we are going to have be some kind of communal society. Or are we going to plunge into anarchy and a breakdown of society with everyone fighting for their piece of the pie? What do you think?

You remember the ship in WALL-E? That.

[arkitect]

An advanced culture?

Hmm.

One where my sex life is respected as no one else's business. For a start.

[mcrain]

Originally Posted by arkitect

An advanced culture?

Hmm.

One where my sex life is respected as no one else's business. For a start.

One where my sex life is respected.

I like the idea of a society where we stop hating each other because of religion, race and resources.

[Thomas Veil]

Originally Posted by Huntn

With machines doing most of the grunt work, will this free human beings to simply explore their intellectual and physical potential?

I don't want to be a pessimist, but that's the kind of utopia I've been hearing about ever since I was in grade school.

Cable TV was supposed to be this miraculous invention that would free us from the constraints of broadcasting and introduce us to narrowcasting, enriching us with high quality content on a broad range of subjects, and unleashing a new era of creativity. Instead it's become a bastion of inane reality TV, off-network reruns, propaganda, mindless celebrity news, and new ways to sell us ****.

The promise of the internet is arguably going the same way. Sarah Palin or someone like her introduces a paranoid-schizoid idea like death panels, and the next thing you know, Google's top 20 returns for "health care reform" are all about the eeeeevil guv'mint killing gramma.

It is to weep.

To answer your question, I believe the truly advanced society is one in which we all realize our connectedness with each other and the planet, and we constrain ourselves because each of us realizes that it isn't all about ourselves.

I just don't see it happening.

[MattSepeta]

I have no desire to live in a Utopia. If everything is good and beautiful and pure, then nothing is.

[iJohnHenry]

Natives, one with the Earth.

But it's been done, so I guess it doesn't count?

[Huntn]

Originally Posted by Joshuarocks

Are you just saying this to mock capitalism or socialism, or are you onto something that could happen in our global world we are in right now?

I'm not mocking and I really don't see us heading towards an advanced society. Right now I see the U.S. heading for the 1800's which is going backwards and not for the better. If society is evolving, and the assumption is made that we will move in a positive direction, I'm asking where will we end up? How will capitalism as we recognize it, survive? I do believe that the outcome will be closer to something called socialism.

Originally Posted by flopticalcube

I'm sure there is a Star Trek episode that deals with this.

References were made in the series as to moving beyond capitalism as we know it into a utopian socialist society. See this United Federation of Planets link.

Originally Posted by leekohler

Asa others have said, the Star Trek way of life would be very cool- a place where money is no longer needed, and people work together in order to gain knowledge and achieve goals.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by Thomas Veil

To answer your question, I believe the truly advanced society is one in which we all realize our connectedness with each other and the planet, and we constrain ourselves because each of us realizes that it isn't all about ourselves.
I just don't see it happening.

If you look at greed run rampant, capitalism does not seem to be a path to the future.

Originally Posted by MattSepeta

I have no desire to live in a Utopia. If everything is good and beautiful and pure, then nothing is.

I still think there could be ugliness, but the scale would be different.

Originally Posted by iJohnHenry

Natives, one with the Earth.

But it's been done, so I guess it doesn't count?

It would be interesting to see what would have happened to American Indians or any natives not polluted by advanced technology. But if you go back to ancient Europe, they were natives once too. It's just a matter of society and technology development. If you had given native Americans a thousand years with no interference, from a technology standpoint, who knows where they would have ended up? As far as I know, they did not do land ownership, and were very communal.

If you look at current characteristics of society, if you have a majority of work being accomplished by machines/computers what kind of economic system would be viable?

[rasmasyean]

First of all, unless you're talking about some sort of ultra-futuristic unrecognizibly transformed life on earth (or beyond), I would define an "advanced society" as one that has great military might and technology...along with the economics to support it. Throughout history, this has been the defining characteristic of any society that prospers and grows and spreads its influence to other societies in some form of mutually beneficial way. A society that is able both defend its own existance from other humans as well as assimulate other humans into it's essence is an "advance society". The key part of a human advancement in general is that when resources are scarse, one group will destroy another and become more powerful...rather than have both groups starve or remain stagnant for a long time...until some third group comes and wipes them both out because they are both weak. I know it sounds harsh, but that's what "life" is about.

As for your utopia view of technology, it never happened. Computers didn't put all accountants and data loggers into permanent human biotrash status no more than the automobile did the same to animal workers. Humans are in general adaptible and will get new jobs that are created when "tech breakthroughs" happen. Sometimes when you're older, true, it's harder to change but that's the price of advancement in any circumstance...you leave the weak behind. Similar to the above war phenomenon.

Just because you can get a XBox now in your living room (vs. a similar power mainframe building computer after ordering it 2 years prior), it doesn't mean your life is set. You will want a 50" LED 3D TV and Netflix sub, and kinnect controller to go with it. Then you will want Cable TV when you're not in the mood for that, then you will want an iPad for the commute, yada yada.

The reason why this happens is because in order for an economy to be powerful, it has to remain competitive at the very edge. Thus, sustainable society and it's leaders will always find a way to tap human potential to ultimately build the "better missile". READ: They will make people work. Once you are "comfortable" and satisfied with some eventual (historic) state of existence with no more need for further novelties, you will be eliminated from the game...just like Taliban Afghanistan...to take an extreme example of "self satisfaction".

This is assuming that humans will still be more "creative" than machines. Machines can do lots of heavy and fast lifting, but have no creativity. This is what "intelligence" is about. Therefore, they cannot come up with bright ideas for improving output never mind "the next gen missile". If the "singularity" every comes into play, then perhaps humans are dead and there's no longer "advance human civilization". But some would argue that we would gradually merge with machines and become them ourselves.

[Pink∆Floyd]

Seems to me the OP had a blazing 420 day

[skunk]

Originally Posted by rasmasyean

First of all, unless you're talking about some sort of ultra-futuristic unrecognizibly transformed life on earth (or beyond), I would define an "advanced society" as one that has great military might and technology...along with the economics to support it. Throughout history, this has been the defining characteristic of any society that prospers and grows and spreads its influence to other societies in some form of mutually beneficial way. A society that is able both defend its own existance from other humans as well as assimulate other humans into it's essence is an "advance society". The key part of a human advancement in general is that when resources are scarse, one group will destroy another and become more powerful...rather than have both groups starve or remain stagnant for a long time...until some third group comes and wipes them both out because they are both weak. I know it sounds harsh, but that's what "life" is about.

No, that's what life is, not what it's about. You have to skate to where the puck is going to be, as someone or other said.

[eawmp1]

I love that some of us humans, a species that has inhabited this planet a fraction of its existence, and have been "civilized" a small percentage of that time, view ourselves as so exceptional that we will continue to evolve to some utopian existence.

We are merely animals who wear clothes and have the capacity to ask "why".

[edifyingGerbil]

Anything that isn't islam and doesn't involve islam.

[vipergts2207]

Originally Posted by rasmasyean

This is assuming that humans will still be more "creative" than machines. Machines can do lots of heavy and fast lifting, but have no creativity. This is what "intelligence" is about. Therefore, they cannot come up with bright ideas for improving output never mind "the next gen missile".

I disagree that computers aren't creative.

Music written by a computer

Article on the music writing computer:
http://singularityhub.com/2009/10/09...etting-better/

Originally Posted by eawmp1

I love that some of us humans, a species that has inhabited this planet a fraction of its existence, and have been "civilized" a small percentage of that time, view ourselves as so exceptional that we will continue to evolve to some utopian existence.

We are merely animals who wear clothes and have the capacity to ask "why".

True, we are only animals, but we're animals that are intelligent enough that we're able to design and use tools that accomplish tasks much better than we can. As such, we're not held back by our biological limits. Eventually we'll create machines and artificial intelligence smart enough that they'll do everything better than we can. Eventually human inadequacies will be overcome by merging with computers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain–computer_interface

To be honest humans are pretty exceptional when compared to the other species on our planet. Our advancement as a species is orders of magnitude greater any other. Really, think about our intelligence and what we've accomplished. We've figured how and why things work the way they do and we're still learning more every day. We're able to use our knowledge to literally take basic things from the Earth and transform them to do what we want with them. We take it for granted, but the computer you're using right now is an exceedingly impressive accomplishment of human ingenuity. Who knows what we'll have in another hundred years. Imagine if you showed someone an iPhone 100 years ago. They wouldn't know what to think of it.

[skunk]

Originally Posted by edifyingGerbil

Anything that isn't islam and doesn't involve islam.

Not very edifying, Gerbil.

[mcrain]

Originally Posted by skunk

Not very edifying, Gerbil.

Yikes, nevermind. Goebbels reference

[edifyingGerbil]

Originally Posted by skunk

Not very edifying, Gerbil.

Really? Why don't you tell me why I'm wrong instead of just saying I'm wrong to think this way?

It all depends on how you define advancement, if it's a simple matter of GDP then if you take a look at the GDP of the Islamic countries you'll see they're far below Western, secular democracies.

If you define advancement as intellectual progress again a cursory look at Nobel Prize winners will see that Islam's votaries are again under represented.

I'm not advocating an opinion, I'm stating a fact: wherever Islam get's a firm foothold progress stops, humanity ceases to advance.

There are reasons for this which I detailed in another thread, to do with muhammad being considered the perfect example of conduct and thus to be emulated...

[eawmp1]

I would argue that when resources are scare, people are poor and hungry, and education is not available mythology can gain a foothold and take over. You have cause and effect reversed.