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Old May 8, 2011, 12:24 AM   #76
weckart
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Originally Posted by HiRez View Post
So Jobs admits MobileMe is crap, and then he's mad at Mossberg for telling the truth about it? What?
He was irate because Mossberg realised it was crap. Slight difference.

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Wish SJ was in charge of the financial sector. All those ****ing bankers would be on the dole not in positions of even more power.
You don't think bank charges are high enough already? Apple doesn't do cheap.
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Old May 8, 2011, 12:25 AM   #77
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Typical american culture when every employee expects to be treated with respect and dignity.

If you have never been to asia, you should try it once. You'll see that the competition is so fierce amongst everything and everyone you have no room to "feel bad" at getting "yelled" at because you are incompetent.

You do a good job, you get rewarded,...if you do a mediocre job, you shouldn't get rewarded and if you under perform, you should get fired. That's as dry as it can be.

That's why all your iProducts are built in China - because over there, you don't work hard, you don't eat. It's life guys - suck it up and over perform. That's how it works. People who complain about what's happening in this article about people would "leave" because they were treated this way is just stupid. Leave then. Hard working people who perform are always highly valued and compensated.

A bunch of whiny people here
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Old May 8, 2011, 12:26 AM   #78
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Talking to employees like that is a good way for them to leave. A company that treats employees badly get a reputation, unfortunately, larger companies get a way with it. For example, EA. But they can still hire because who they are.

Perhaps the MobileMe problems were further up the chain?

Sounds like Apple has a culture of blame. A kind of company any employee wants to avoid like the plague.
He hired a group of executives to do their job. They didn't do it, and Jobs was pissed. And rightfully so, because, well, they're not doing their freaking job.

Should he have yelled at them? Probably not, but it's Steve Jobs. You know exactly what you're getting into when you work directly under him. I would be mad too if a team of leaders didn't live up to their expectations and instead waste time and half-ass things and burned money while doing it, especially in a competitive market where time is very important. It's simple really, do your job well or you won't get to do it at all. He isn't asking for much, just that they do their job well.

Then again, if you hate Apple so much why are you posting on a forum called Mac Rumors? EDIT: Come on dude, you've been here as long as I have. You know how Apple works.
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Old May 8, 2011, 12:36 AM   #79
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Sounds like Apple has a culture of blame. A kind of company any employee wants to avoid like the plague.

Far from it, Apple is the culture of ACCOUNTABILITY! You get paid to do your job, and you MUST do it, and do it well, or you are gone. The only people who would avoid that are slackards, some one who gives little to the Corporation, but wants BIG money. Produce or begone I say!
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Old May 8, 2011, 12:37 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by motulist View Post
Apple IS Jobs. We saw what happened to Apple when Jobs was ousted in the mid 80s. Apple continued to make superior products for the next few years, but by 10 years later Apple was really floundering. If Jobs leaves on his own terms this time, hopefully he'll be able to leave system in place that can keep Apple churning out products that are insanely great.
Even so, they were light years ahead of anything Microsoft was putting out. Microsoft was cheaper, and had chosen to stick with x86 which was more powerful. They had multi-tasking and better graphics cards, but still... ugh. Give me a copy of OS 7,8,or 9 and a slow mac any day compared to having to work with Windows 95,98, 2000, etc.
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Old May 8, 2011, 12:38 AM   #81
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Hate to destroy your vision of the OCD, angry, mercurial Steven P. Jobs with a whip persona, but the man on a daily basis talks and commends people across all lines of work he has his interest in.

He calls a spade a spade. He is always the first to praise his staff for superb work. Do you expect him to give them all a Capri Sun and we'll get'em next time kids when they deserve to be challenged for their efforts?

There are an awful lot of multi-millionaires working at Apple ever since Steve returned.

Nearly 33% of the staff was about to take 12 week sabbaticals when NeXT took over. They were all walking out of the company.

He ended that ridiculous program and told them they can walk now.

Most stayed and realized the man had vision far beyond the stories they had read.

The rest is proof of his broad vision.

Either you are a focus person or one who needs coddling. This isn't high school.

You either speak up and find your niche working there and leave because of other circumstances [as I did] or you moan and complain about the great Tyrant Steve Jobs that only ever existed amidst people who grew up always being praised as if they were mini-gods for just being able to participate in a school sport.

Merit gets rewarded handsomely with Steven P. Jobs corporations.

You earn your pay and take pride in your work. If you have no pride to be the best, don't apply.
Boy THAT'S what I was trying to say!

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Great more news to send AAPL lower. I swear if it doesn't go up soon, given the data, Apple will be in for a hostile take over!
STOP! I bought 1000 share when it hit,$69.75, I sell when it hits $400
right after the sweet MBA's are released with something that I believe will surprise us all
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Last edited by kainjow; May 8, 2011 at 12:55 AM. Reason: merged posts
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Old May 8, 2011, 01:00 AM   #82
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Jobs...that guy cracks me up xD.

"So why the ******* doesn't it do that?" lol

mobile me is getting replaced by iCloud i think isn't it? at least thats what i've heard.
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Old May 8, 2011, 01:02 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by iPadThai View Post
Typical american culture when every employee expects to be treated with respect and dignity.

If you have never been to asia, you should try it once. You'll see that the competition is so fierce amongst everything and everyone you have no room to "feel bad" at getting "yelled" at because you are incompetent.

You do a good job, you get rewarded,...if you do a mediocre job, you shouldn't get rewarded and if you under perform, you should get fired. That's as dry as it can be.

That's why all your iProducts are built in China - because over there, you don't work hard, you don't eat. It's life guys - suck it up and over perform. That's how it works. People who complain about what's happening in this article about people would "leave" because they were treated this way is just stupid. Leave then. Hard working people who perform are always highly valued and compensated.

A bunch of whiny people here
A-freakin MEN! I spent my life working with a great bunch of guys as welders for GE on third shift, 7PM-7AM, when a hot job came through we got it done, we also watched everyones back side, we worked for the Company, and stuck together as UNION, we worked hard, partied harder.
We respected the Company, and they respected us! I ejoyed life had anything I wanted, but I worked my a$$ off 84 hours a week . I'm retired now, but I have a nice Pension, and benefits. When America will work for a buck, and be glad to have a UNION job/benefits/ and wage. So I agree, I was a hard worker, valued, and compensated. You bet your buttkis GE made money off my Labor, but I was well paid for it as well, win/win all around
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Old May 8, 2011, 01:09 AM   #84
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Duh! I think Steve Jobs was George Westinghouse in a past life.
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Old May 8, 2011, 01:12 AM   #85
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There were similar reports when the first prototypes of the original iPhone were being demoed to him. They were of course buggy and glitchy and apparently lambasted the team, saying "we don't have a product"..."this is a mess"
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Old May 8, 2011, 01:15 AM   #86
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ditto

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Originally Posted by motulist View Post
apple is jobs. We saw what happened to apple when jobs was ousted in the mid 80s. Apple continued to make superior products for the next few years, but by 10 years later apple was really floundering. If jobs leaves on his own terms this time, hopefully he'll be able to leave system in place that can keep apple churning out products that are insanely great.
+100
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Old May 8, 2011, 01:17 AM   #87
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Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

They should call MobileMe, iMail
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Old May 8, 2011, 01:20 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by roocka View Post
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

They should call MobileMe, iMail
The intent of MobileMe is to go far beyond the scope of Mail Services.
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Old May 8, 2011, 01:26 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by kcmac View Post
Stella. You're fired.
Too funny.
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Old May 8, 2011, 01:34 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by iPadThai View Post
Typical american culture when every employee expects to be treated with respect and dignity.

If you have never been to asia, you should try it once. You'll see that the competition is so fierce amongst everything and everyone you have no room to "feel bad" at getting "yelled" at because you are incompetent.

You do a good job, you get rewarded,...if you do a mediocre job, you shouldn't get rewarded and if you under perform, you should get fired. That's as dry as it can be.

That's why all your iProducts are built in China - because over there, you don't work hard, you don't eat. It's life guys - suck it up and over perform. That's how it works. People who complain about what's happening in this article about people would "leave" because they were treated this way is just stupid. Leave then. Hard working people who perform are always highly valued and compensated.

A bunch of whiny people here
I agree with all you said 100% (the bolded bit I agree with 200%)
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Old May 8, 2011, 01:38 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Stella View Post
Yes, he does take the heat. However, there are better ways of going about it... you don't *degrade* your employees. You'll loose them.
This team degraded Apples reputation.. even Steve said so himself.

This is the way big businesses are ran, either do the job right the first time or get fired!
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Old May 8, 2011, 01:40 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by /V\acpower View Post
I can't imagine what happened to the "Ping" team...
^^^ That is funny!
LOL
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Old May 8, 2011, 01:50 AM   #93
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pot calling the kettle back stevie boy. explain the god damn hockey puck mouse.
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Old May 8, 2011, 02:00 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by iPadThai View Post
Typical american culture when every employee expects to be treated with respect and dignity.

If you have never been to asia, you should try it once. You'll see that the competition is so fierce amongst everything and everyone you have no room to "feel bad" at getting "yelled" at because you are incompetent.

You do a good job, you get rewarded,...if you do a mediocre job, you shouldn't get rewarded and if you under perform, you should get fired. That's as dry as it can be.

That's why all your iProducts are built in China - because over there, you don't work hard, you don't eat. It's life guys - suck it up and over perform. That's how it works. People who complain about what's happening in this article about people would "leave" because they were treated this way is just stupid. Leave then. Hard working people who perform are always highly valued and compensated.

A bunch of whiny people here
I think that employees should expect to be treated with respect and dignity, but I don't think that American workers typically do expect that. What makes you think that Americans do expect to be treated with respect and dignity at their jobs? Why would it be bad if they did?

As far as your comments on Asia, it's difficult to compare economies and working styles. However, I noticed you said, "you have no room to "feel bad" at getting "yelled" at because you are incompetent." There are a number of people who have committed suicide at the factories that produce the "iProducts" you mention. They might have disagreed with you that they never felt bad working under inhumane pressure.

And your comment on why "iProducts" are produced in China is simply uninformed. One of the major reasons products are produced in China is the cost of labor. You said that if you do a good job you get rewarded. But that argument goes exactly against why products are actually made in China. The people in China have to do an amazing job to keep a job but still aren't rewarded well. There's also currency manipulation, lack of human rights and environmental standards, government subsidies, and the basic fact that we are talking about the resources of a very poor country (per capita) versus the resources of a very rich country (per capita). China's economic development has also been planned by its government and is a mix of capitalism and socialism. To a varying degree, there are government plans for workers. You said, "Hard working people who perform are always highly valued and compensated." That is simply not true in China. It's not true in most areas of the world. It's not true to a great extent in the United States. The people making the most money in the US tend to be the ones who have figured out a way to make money moving decimal points. Some of the world's richest people have made their money betting against their own country by selling short its currency. Not much work. Just decisions. The world's richest people tend not to be the ones who are literally working the hardest. And in China, to an extent, it's even planned who will be allowed to work in what type of work and what type of life that person will have, although reforms have changed that somewhat--to what extent I'm not sure.

The Chinese may indeed have to work harder, but it's not why products are made in China.
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Old May 8, 2011, 02:12 AM   #95
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Old May 8, 2011, 02:27 AM   #96
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pot calling the kettle back stevie boy. explain the god damn hockey puck mouse.
lol... well, maybe that explains the $1 sallary.....
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Old May 8, 2011, 02:44 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Stella View Post
Talking to employees like that is a good way for them to leave. A company that treats employees badly get a reputation, unfortunately, larger companies get a way with it. For example, EA. But they can still hire because who they are.

Perhaps the MobileMe problems were further up the chain?

Sounds like Apple has a culture of blame. A kind of company any employee wants to avoid like the plague.
That is not how it works in highly challenging environments. We are only hearing this example when things went wrong. But getting it right requires open and honest criticism and back and forth ( and some shouting matches ) without taking it personally. If anyone thinks that this is not a way to treat employees, then Apple is not the right place for them.
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Old May 8, 2011, 02:47 AM   #98
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All the more reason for me to dislike the people running Apple but enjoy Apple products
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Old May 8, 2011, 02:49 AM   #99
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Might be interesting to know that Podolny's expertise is on how firms can charge a premium when they position themselves strategically among high status collaborators --- obviously relevant to Apple's up-market niche. (See Podolny's book Status Signals). Podolny is very well respected among organizational scholars.
That upmarket thing about Apple is a 'was'. With iPad that changed. I would not be a share holder if Apple goes back into that direction. But what they can do is figure out a way, like they did with iPad, to continue to offer up market status symbol products at prices that are competitive against 'good enough' competitors.
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Old May 8, 2011, 02:55 AM   #100
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Apple has never done web services well. They are not a web company.

I am interested to see what the iCloud service brings to the table. The bar is significantly higher these days. Dropbox out does anything Apple has put out and it does it for free. iDisk is a complete joke and has been since OS9. Unreliable, slow, expensive.

Let's see if Apple "gets it" this time around.
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