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Old May 8, 2011, 02:03 AM   #101
kalsta
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Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post
Hate to destroy your vision of the OCD, angry, mercurial Steven P. Jobs with a whip persona, but the man on a daily basis talks and commends people across all lines of work he has his interest in.

You earn your pay and take pride in your work. If you have no pride to be the best, don't apply.
Thanks for sharing some very interesting comments from the perspective of a previous employee!

I've always preferred working with people who are upfront and give you direct and honest feedback. That way you know exactly where you stand. As an employer, I find giving praise a much more rewarding task than criticising someone's efforts, but there are definitely times for both.

There's no denying Steve gets the job done — the success of Apple speaks louder than Steve Ballmer at a developer conference.
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Old May 8, 2011, 02:04 AM   #102
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i can't imagine what happened to the "ping" team...
lol!
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Old May 8, 2011, 02:04 AM   #103
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So Jobs admits MobileMe is crap, and then he's mad at Mossberg for telling the truth about it? What?
You really didn't get what that was about?
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Old May 8, 2011, 02:05 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Rodimus Prime View Post
I though .mac was lagging behind more and more before the MobileMe launch and was pretty much a rip off by end any how. SJ blaming the MobileMe team is very unprofessional. Hell the fact that .mac was going into the crapper and MobileMe just added to it tells me that the issues starts at the top with SJ. Clearly he did not gives a rats ass about it and is trying to pull the blame game.

I honestly thing after SJ leaves Apple it will become a better company and put out better products since he will not be in control. Hell they might start listening to their customers.
You're kidding right? Steve was blaming the mobile me team because mobile me did not work at launch. Whether you like the mobile me services is absolutely irrelevant. Steve was not blaming them for subpar services, he was blaming them for mobile me not functioning.
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Old May 8, 2011, 03:35 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by kalsta View Post
Thanks for sharing some very interesting comments from the perspective of a previous employee!

I've always preferred working with people who are upfront and give you direct and honest feedback. That way you know exactly where you stand. As an employer, I find giving praise a much more rewarding task than criticising someone's efforts, but there are definitely times for both.

There's no denying Steve gets the job done — the success of Apple speaks louder than Steve Ballmer at a developer conference.

I also preferred people that were upfront. I've always hated the sandwich talk. And I have no doubt SJ is a great CEO. According to glassdoor, 97% approve. Only 49% approve of Riccitiello.

It tells you something when employees like their boss and the direction the company is headed.
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Old May 8, 2011, 03:38 AM   #106
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I can't imagine what happened to the "Ping" team...
hahahahahahaha
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Old May 8, 2011, 04:14 AM   #107
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Talking to employees like that is a good way for them to leave. A company that treats employees badly get a reputation, unfortunately, larger companies get a way with it. For example, EA. But they can still hire because who they are.

Perhaps the MobileMe problems were further up the chain?

Sounds like Apple has a culture of blame. A kind of company any employee wants to avoid like the plague.
Hindsight is a great thing. Is every idea a company has a great idea or even a good idea. Just because you run with something doesn't mean you've got a good idea to run with. Or that you thought of everything up to, during and after release.
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Old May 8, 2011, 05:19 AM   #108
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Typical american culture when every employee expects to be treated with respect and dignity.

If you have never been to asia, you should try it once. You'll see that the competition is so fierce amongst everything and everyone you have no room to "feel bad" at getting "yelled" at because you are incompetent.

You do a good job, you get rewarded,...if you do a mediocre job, you shouldn't get rewarded and if you under perform, you should get fired. That's as dry as it can be.

That's why all your iProducts are built in China - because over there, you don't work hard, you don't eat. It's life guys - suck it up and over perform. That's how it works. People who complain about what's happening in this article about people would "leave" because they were treated this way is just stupid. Leave then. Hard working people who perform are always highly valued and compensated.

A bunch of whiny people here
Ah, the inevitable "you shouldn't complain, because there are people who are worse off than you" line.

Do you also tell people who are seriously ill to stop complaining because there are people who are even more seriously ill?
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Old May 8, 2011, 05:28 AM   #109
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Just like most stories and stuff u read these days, it takes something bad that had happen and that blows way out of proportion. I am sure that the Apple work enviroinment is not a tirrany kinda space. You cant have good ideas in a fearfull place. And I am also sure there have been moments like the ones described, but overall i believe Apple has a good working environment.


But hey I understand, people would much rather read. "SJ freaked out and cursed on the team" than "most of the time he comes to work feeling good and things go well"
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Old May 8, 2011, 05:28 AM   #110
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And that is the problem. Something every mac fan should be concerned about. Unfortunately Steve can't be around forever and in light of recent news about his health will his successor be able to drive the company in the right direction? It's concerning as someone who likes their products and should be even more concerning for those who own apple stock. Do we even want to guess what will happen to the stock when Steve is no longer able to carry on his daily role?
Sorry but that's total bunk. The Wilderness Years saw Apple competing in the traditional PC space and getting things badly wrong but... to be honest, even if Jobs had been there during that time they would have struggled. Let's not forget the PC industry exploded in the 90's and Apple was on the wrong side of a price (and features for that matter) war that was driven, largely, by the enterprise market. There just wasn't room in the consumer space to move onto that strategy earlier, even if Jobs had been present.

What Jobs did when he came back was move Apple in a different direction, first into design-led products (hello iMac) and then into consumer electronics. When he leaves Apple for good, whether that's soon or not, he's going to leave them as a unique entity with a clear corporate identity that's flexible enough to do pretty much anything they like. More importantly, they've got a fantasticly skilled base of people working for them and a corporate culture that seems to be designed to get the best out of that skillset. They're also pretty much the ONLY company out there capable of delivering top tier hardware AND software and it's really hard to see anyone challenging that for a long time to come.

Apple will be absolutely fine when Jobs goes. The stock price will fall as the usual investment panic kicks in but that'll only last a short while until the financial results and the next big product launch restore confidence. As for us consumers... no, we shouldn't worry at all. Apple clearly has a good handle on where it wants to go and that vision won't change because one man leaves.
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Old May 8, 2011, 05:37 AM   #111
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After Jobs, Apple will do just fine for a year or two.

The real challenge the company will face is after those two years.

People like Steve Jobs come once in a lifetime.

Apple will not be the same without Jobs.

For eg. Right now I will buy an Apple product because I know that Steve Jobs will not allow crap to be released unless it's a 'hobby'. But, after Jobs I will not be as eager to buy an Apple product.

It may be tough for Apple to create the excitement that Steve Jobs is able to generate when a new Apple product is launched into the Market.
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Old May 8, 2011, 05:44 AM   #112
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The mobile me story isn't exactly a “previously unknown anecdote”.

I quote from Gruber (daringfireball.net) on Monday 11th August, 2008:

Quote:
This, of course, is only what Jobs wrote in the memo, which was distributed throughout the company and destined to leak to the press. Those Apple employees who are fortunate enough to work on the MobileMe team were treated to something extra: a 40-minute lecture from Jobs in Apple’s Town Hall theater, which lecture was, shall we say, slightly more profane. E.g. where the memo says “we will press on to make it a service we are all proud of by the end of this year”, in Jobs’s Town Hall address to the MobileMe team, it came out more like “You better ********** fix it by the end of the year”. Paraphrasing, but you get the picture.
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Old May 8, 2011, 05:57 AM   #113
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Grow a Set

[QUOTE=andiwm2003;12533857]Steve should chill a bit. Yelling at the MobileMe team is highly unprofessional.

Any adult who feels personally diminished because someone yelled at them for participating in a failure misses the point completely. I wouldn't even bother with the effort unless I expected the group to produce better work. If he did not believe in their ability to do the job he would just fire them. Getting fired is much worse than a swift kick to wake you up. You could even make a case that it was a sign of respect from jobs as he told them exactly how he felt to their faces.
The inability to directly confront problems is a huge problem in most organizations large and small. Steve just showed you how it was done. Language can be amended to a great degree but the directness of his message would be appreciated by people who strive to do great work.
My .02c
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Old May 8, 2011, 06:01 AM   #114
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I don't get it.

Steve Jobs is the most boring person ever.

He has zero charisma and really doesn't design anything.

I hope when he leaves the company will be a little more open and perhaps try some new things he wouldn't allow.

A future without SJ is a good thing.

And that's my opinion.
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Old May 8, 2011, 06:24 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by Mr. Gates View Post
I don't get it.

Steve Jobs is the most boring person ever.

He has zero charisma and really doesn't design anything.

I hope when he leaves the company will be a little more open and perhaps try some new things he wouldn't allow.

A future without SJ is a good thing.

And that's my opinion.
Hmm, do you by any chance work for Microsoft?
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Old May 8, 2011, 06:39 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by iPadThai View Post
Typical american culture when every employee expects to be treated with respect and dignity.

If you have never been to asia, you should try it once. You'll see that the competition is so fierce amongst everything and everyone you have no room to "feel bad" at getting "yelled" at because you are incompetent.

You do a good job, you get rewarded,...if you do a mediocre job, you shouldn't get rewarded and if you under perform, you should get fired. That's as dry as it can be.

That's why all your iProducts are built in China - because over there, you don't work hard, you don't eat. It's life guys - suck it up and over perform. That's how it works. People who complain about what's happening in this article about people would "leave" because they were treated this way is just stupid. Leave then. Hard working people who perform are always highly valued and compensated.

A bunch of whiny people here
I completely agree. It infuriates me that people are so oversensitive these days. All the complaining about how "a good company would never treat their employees this way" is ridiculous. People grow up now with a false sense of entitlement because you can no longer discipline your children without fear of criminal charges, you can't say the Pledge of Allegiance because it might offend immigrants, and you can't yell at people for their incompetence because it might hurt their feelings. Once upon a time Americans were proud and hard working, but now our country is full of overprivileged whiners.

But that's enough of my ranting.

I'm not sure about everyone else, but I enjoy MobileMe. I love being able to add things to the calender on my iPhone and have it instantly appear on my Mac. I also like the Gallery and iDisk. Whether it's all worth $100 a year is a different story.
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Old May 8, 2011, 06:47 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by Mr. Gates View Post
I don't get it.

Steve Jobs is the most boring person ever.

He has zero charisma and really doesn't design anything.

I hope when he leaves the company will be a little more open and perhaps try some new things he wouldn't allow.

A future without SJ is a good thing.

And that's my opinion.
I kind of know what you are saying.
In some ways Steve Jobs comes up with great things, and it to be regarded as someone who has made great products, on the other hand he also ruins things, and makes them far less (holds them back) from what they could be.

It would be like someone inventing the greatest thing ever, which is good, and then restricting it's use, as HE PERSONALLY does not agree with the use others can think of.

It's a strange combination.

In a way, you want to get Steve out of the box, get him and his company to come up with something great, and then say, thanks, we have it now, let us get on with using it, and making the most of it, now go away and work on the next greatest thing.

Over history, we have has people that have come up with great things, however, it's been others that have stretched and improved what these things can do, and given us the variety of products we have today.

Can you imagine someone like Steve Jobs, back then the Bike, the Car, the internal combustion engine, the wheel, the aeroplane etc etc was invented.

We'd have nothing like we do today, as all the inventions would of been clamped down with legal red tape so nothing would ever get anywhere.

Steve Jobs, when he dies, will have a place in computing history without question, and will be looked upon as a man who stood out, and did what he personally believed it.

But also, many will learn from his lessons, and better products will be made, but in a way it will be better when over controlling individuals are out of the way. They have their place, but they can stifle the world also.
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Old May 8, 2011, 07:12 AM   #118
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I don't get it.
Top post . People with no sense of humour need not reply.

-------------------

And as for Steve's style management - lets judge it by its results shall we?

And by results - I am not talking bottom line profits - i am talking about "customer satisfaction".

"Its not good enough" is a concept that is sadly lacking these days. And boy does it show in some product ranges.

Lets leave the touchy-feely 'Never mind - the important thing is that you tried' management style to companies who don't need reputation to sell their products.

V*st* development team - I am looking at you...


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But also, many will learn from his lessons, and better products will be made, but in a way it will be better when over controlling individuals are out of the way. They have their place, but they can stifle the world also.
Design by committe is usually rubbish.
Look at the greatest human projects and they are usually the product of a single person with a singular vision.

The world needs people like SJ to constantly challenge and demand better, not worry about office politics or greasing their way up the corporate table.
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Old May 8, 2011, 07:13 AM   #119
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Talking to employees like that is a good way for them to leave. A company that treats employees badly get a reputation, unfortunately, larger companies get a way with it. For example, EA. But they can still hire because who they are.

Perhaps the MobileMe problems were further up the chain?

Sounds like Apple has a culture of blame. A kind of company any employee wants to avoid like the plague.
No. Steve's successful for being a bastard. He pushes people like that so he can get the best out of them. If he just says "oh okay, don't worry about it" then they won't and their standards will slip. By doing this he's making it clear that this level of performance isn't acceptable.
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Old May 8, 2011, 07:20 AM   #120
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Typical american culture when every employee expects to be treated with respect and dignity.

If you have never been to asia, you should try it once. You'll see that the competition is so fierce amongst everything and everyone you have no room to "feel bad" at getting "yelled" at because you are incompetent.

You do a good job, you get rewarded,...if you do a mediocre job, you shouldn't get rewarded and if you under perform, you should get fired. That's as dry as it can be.

That's why all your iProducts are built in China - because over there, you don't work hard, you don't eat. It's life guys - suck it up and over perform. That's how it works. People who complain about what's happening in this article about people would "leave" because they were treated this way is just stupid. Leave then. Hard working people who perform are always highly valued and compensated.

A bunch of whiny people here
I work in Asia.

China might be the manufacturing hub but where is the innovation in China?

All that china and other asian countries are doing are creating robots and parrots as far as their employees are concerned.

The real innovation is happening in USA.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old May 8, 2011, 07:24 AM   #121
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http://www.wired.com/techbiz/it/maga...bz_apple_rules

Breaking the Rules: Apple Succeeds By Defying 5 Core Valley Principles
By Leander Kahney 03.18.08


EVIL/GENIUS
How Apple Got Everything Right By Doing Everything Wrong
Our Bad. Wired Had Some Tips For Apple — We Were Wrong.
Google's famous catchphrase, "Don't be evil," has become a shorthand mission statement for Silicon Valley, encompassing a variety of ideals that proponents say are good for business and good for the world: Embrace open platforms. Trust decisions to the wisdom of crowds. Treat your employees like gods. It's ironic, then, that one of the Valley's most successful companies ignored all these tenets. Here's how Apple succeeds by defying five core Valley principles.

1. COOPERATE
Valley Rule
Embrace open platforms. Software should be decoupled from hardware so users can access any program or data from any device. Example: Google's Android, an operating system that will run on a variety of handsets from different manufacturers.
Apple Rule
Design software to work on your own hardware — and not on anyone else's. The OS X experience is made only for the Mac; iPhone apps function only on iPhones. And customers don't seem to mind. Apparently, they're willing to trade freedom for a kick-ass product.

2. COMMUNICATE
Valley Rule
Tell your fans what you're up to so they feel a connection to your company. Hiring difficulties? New strategies? Digestive problems? Blog 'em! Customers will feel more invested and more loyal. Plus, their comments could give you some good ideas.
Apple Rule
Never talk to the press. Shut down rumor blogs. Threaten to sue children who send you their ideas. Never leak product news until you're ready to announce it. Then use that discipline to create buzz and win coverage with every announcement.

3. PLAY NICE
Valley Rule
Don't exploit your market-leader status. Software should compete on its merits, not its ability to shut out rivals. Microsoft earned an antitrust suit and decades of ill will by muscling PC makers into bundling its operating system and browser onto their machines.
Apple Rule
Hardball tactics rule! Every Mac is preloaded with iTunes, which becomes the user's default music program. And most iTunes purchases can be played only on iPods, creating a closed loop that has proven tough for competitors — and music labels — to challenge.

4. LOVE YOUR CUSTOMERS
Valley Rule
Make sure to lavish affection on your clients, and try to ensure that every one of them has a positive experience. Anyone can post a withering review on Yelp or Amazon, so you can't afford to let a single complaint go unaddressed.
Apple Rule
Please yourself, not your fans. Release iMacs without floppy drives. Release MacBook Airs without optical drives. Cut the price of an iPhone by $200 two months after its introduction; when early adopters complain, offer them a $100 gift certificate.

5. CODDLE YOUR EMPLOYEES
Valley Rule
Since the best ideas bubble up from within the ranks, encourage autonomy by allowing workers free time to focus on their personal projects. Also, shower them with perks like free food and massages to make them feel special.
Apple Rule
Motivate through fear. Don't be afraid to scream. Threaten to fire them. Withhold praise until it's truly deserved. Go ahead and bring them to tears. As long as you can inspire them with your sense of mission, they'll consider this the best job they've ever had.
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Old May 8, 2011, 07:34 AM   #122
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T
Design by committe is usually rubbish.
Look at the greatest human projects and they are usually the product of a single person with a singular vision.
Yes, indeed, I agree with you.

But, and here's the thing.

You may have someone that has a spark of genius and creates something, but you don't them want this singles person determining what this great invention can and cannot be used for.

As I say, we almost need Steve in the back room being paid by the world to create wonderful things, but not controlling all the inventions and stifling what they can do.

Like with the iPad at the moment, it's a great product, but again and again, I hear people say, can I do this, can I do that, what about this..... etc etc.

And again and again you hear, yes, but only if you jailbrake it.

The device is capable of being much much more than Apple allow currently.
Hopefully in time the chains will be removed, as if they are not, other unchained makes will, without question overtake it.
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Old May 8, 2011, 07:42 AM   #123
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Great more news to send AAPL lower. I swear if it doesn't go up soon, given the data, Apple will be in for a hostile take over!
For a hostile takeover you would need at least 250 billion dollars in cash. You'd need to buy half the shares, and trying to buy that many shares would drive the price up, so my estimate is that for 250 billion dollars you would get 51% with the share price going to about $500.

And then what? Apple has plenty of people who can run the company very well after Steve Jobs leave. Problem is that all these people would cash in their share options at $500 and leave. So you hire Michael Dell to run the company. How long do you think would that last?
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Old May 8, 2011, 07:56 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by iPadThai View Post
Typical american culture when every employee expects to be treated with respect and dignity.

If you have never been to asia, you should try it once. You'll see that the competition is so fierce amongst everything and everyone you have no room to "feel bad" at getting "yelled" at because you are incompetent.

You do a good job, you get rewarded,...if you do a mediocre job, you shouldn't get rewarded and if you under perform, you should get fired. That's as dry as it can be.

That's why all your iProducts are built in China - because over there, you don't work hard, you don't eat. It's life guys - suck it up and over perform. That's how it works. People who complain about what's happening in this article about people would "leave" because they were treated this way is just stupid. Leave then. Hard working people who perform are always highly valued and compensated.

A bunch of whiny people here
This!

Look folks, it's one thing to constantly berate your workers, never acknowledge their accomplishments, and/or always expect more than a team can produce given resources provided to them. But when you pay your team well, and provide the resources they need to complete a job you expect them to deliver. Period.

As far as inciting employees to quit, good. If an employee quits over getting chastised for not producing the organization likely just got stronger. Because for every underperforming employee that quits there are 5 people waiting in line to pick up the ball and run with it. At a successful company it's almost always a buyer's market for labor.
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Old May 8, 2011, 08:16 AM   #125
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Jobs has always been so arrogant that in my opinion he has stunted the growth in Apples user base. The are so many people who won't touch Apple products for that reason. Showing that he mistreats his employees this way doesn't help Apples reputation. I'll be glad when he is gone from Apple.
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