IBM PPC 970MP A Reality?

[quagmire]

IBM confirms the PPC 970MP. IBM talks about cooling the monster and how the thermal diodes keep it from exceeding its maximum temperature. Which could also clue us in the dual core G5 Powerbooks and how it may cool itself down, when they do come out.

http://www-306.ibm.com/chips/techlib...256FC30083B0A9

[Sun Baked]

I was just looking at this, can somebody say IBM just let the cat out of the bag big time.

It's a little harder to hide this than the 970GX scandal.

Michiro was absent for a long time (months and months) and drops this on ARS Technica.

Edit: In case IBM sees the need to close the page.

[Daveway]

I knew it! They're feeling the heat from Intel that says they're ready to ship dual core this month.

:Steve jumps out window:

[brap]

Wow. Heads will proper roll for this.

But isn't it cool!

[Logik]

Originally Posted by daveway00

I knew it! They're feeling the heat from Intel that says they're ready to ship dual core this month.

:Steve jumps out window:

here's for hoping it's dual processor dual-core chips THAT might make me buy one.. i won't be so willing to spring for a single dual core machine...

it isn't intel you gotta look out for anymore.. AMD is the one to look out for, their Athlon64 just totally rocks...

[miloblithe]

I hope this technology makes it through the line quickly. I like the idea (fantasy) that in a year or two all macs will be dual-core or dual processor systems.

[gkhaldi]

Originally Posted by Sun Baked

I was just looking at this, can somebody say IBM just let the cat out of the bag big time.

It's a little harder to hide this than the 970GX scandal.

Michiro was absent for a long time (months and months) and drops this on ARS Technica.

Edit: In case IBM sees the need to close the page.

I know for a fact that the 970DP is up and running. IBM will more then likely start using this processor in a future lineup of "OpenPower", not based on the Power 5 architecture but on the 970. They need this to compete in the open space.

I understood from a "fellow" that they have crancked up the speed to 3.5 Ghz and got the thermal issues under control (read smaller packaging). They shipped a number of processors to outside parties for "integration" in November.

I expect that Apple to announce in the fall the roll-out of a 2 x Dual core G5 3.XX Ghz with support up to 64 GB of memory.

[cr2sh]

Originally Posted by gkhaldi

I know for a fact that the 970DP is up and running. IBM will more then likely start using this processor in a future lineup of "OpenPower", not based on the Power 5 architecture but on the 970. They need this to compete in the open space.

I understood from a "fellow" that they have crancked up the speed to 3.5 Ghz and got the thermal issues under control (read smaller packaging). They shipped a number of processors to outside parties for "integration" in November.

I expect that Apple to announce in the fall the roll-out of a 2 x Dual core G5 3.XX Ghz with support up to 64 GB of memory.

Wow... for a first post those are some mighty tall words. I'm not so sure of what you're saying but I'm pretty sure your timeline is off... we're well past an update now, shipping 4months off. I think we'll have an announcement soon.

Big news really brings 'em out of the woodwork, eh?

[Fredstar]

Omg imagine dual dual-core processors running at over 3ghz and maybe even addressing like 16gb memory, similar to the dual-core Opteron's (i think)...not that anyone here other than high end science users etc would ever need more than 8gb.
Apple will again have the fastest computer in the world, and not by just a bit, by a considerable margin. If they can announce them at WWDC to ship around Q3 then that would be amazing.

[Sun Baked]

Originally Posted by cr2sh

Wow... for a first post those are some mighty tall words. I like what your saying but I think your timeline is off... we're well past an update now, shipping 4months off. We'll have an announcement soon.

Big news really brings 'em out of the woodwork, eh?

As people have said, news of the chip is 8 months old already -- with an original ship date of Jan 2005 declared last year.

If we had to wait for fall for these things to arrive, there would be a revolt.

Of course you would expect IBM went back and massaged the chip with a new generation (970GX/MP) to solve some of the voltage & thermal issues along with tweaks to improve the yield -- or we're still in trouble.

[gkhaldi]

Originally Posted by Sun Baked

As people have said, news of the chip is 8 months old already -- with an original ship date of Jan 2005 declared last year.

If we had to wait for fall for these things to arrive, there would be a revolt.

Of course you would expect IBM went back and massaged the chip with a new generation (970GX/MP) to solve some of the voltage & thermal issues along with tweaks to improve the yield -- or we're still in trouble.

The chip is not ready for mass production. IBM is still adjusting it's plant production for ramp-up. I could be off but my guy was pretty sure of his comments.

[Sun Baked]

Originally Posted by gkhaldi

The chip is not ready for mass production. IBM is still adjusting it's plant production for ramp-up. I could be off but my guy was pretty sure of his comments.

Is he from the Fishkill plant? or one of the older 200mm wafer plants?

In any case that a bit closer than anything else we've heard, of course IBM's fallen on their face quite spectacularly during the last two ramp-ups.

[appleface]

Originally Posted by gkhaldi

The chip is not ready for mass production. IBM is still adjusting it's plant production for ramp-up. I could be off but my guy was pretty sure of his comments.

so, realistically guessing, how long before a pb is shipping with dual dual cores?

on the topic, but off the topic as well... when will apple's lappies get next gen processors (g5 or dual g4s or something else)? are there any clues out there?

[relimw]

Originally Posted by gkhaldi

I know for a fact that the 970DP is up and running. IBM will more then likely start using this processor in a future lineup of "OpenPower", not based on the Power 5 architecture but on the 970. They need this to compete in the open space.

I understood from a "fellow" that they have crancked up the speed to 3.5 Ghz and got the thermal issues under control (read smaller packaging). They shipped a number of processors to outside parties for "integration" in November.

I expect that Apple to announce in the fall the roll-out of a 2 x Dual core G5 3.XX Ghz with support up to 64 GB of memory.

Originally Posted by cr2sh

Wow... for a first post those are some mighty tall words. I'm not so sure of what you're saying but I'm pretty sure your timeline is off... we're well past an update now, shipping 4months off. I think we'll have an announcement soon.

Big news really brings 'em out of the woodwork, eh?

Of course, this could actually be true, and Apple has learned to build some stock before announcing a new topline system after the snafu with the 2.5s last year. Seems I recall some people had their 2.5s on order for like 5 months before they received them.

[blitzkrieg79]

ummmmmm, I dont think comparing Pentium 4 EE to a 970 class processor is fair cuz arent they for two different markets (consumer vs server)? I mean from what I understand all the IBM processors were designed to work best in multiple processor systems... As far as I know there really isnt too many dual Pentum 4 systems (in fact i think its zero) but there are Xeons duals and strangely a single Xeon may be a bit faster than a 970 but when they are in multiple processor arrangements, for example, a dual 970 clocked by almost a GHZ down is equal or beats a Xeon dual station in over 50% of benchmarks I have seen so far as well as from personal experience and sometimes the performance difference is rather extremely significant... On the other hand, we can argue all we want but for the past couple of years, IBM AMD and Intel has released processors that when it comes down to it all are about equal to performance at the high end... I would like to see Apple adopt some kind of Cell derivative technology to really outclass the competition for a while which I think would have been good for the market because computer technology has become stagnant lately, all I see is increases of couple of MHZ in Graphics cards, memory increases, but no one is bold enough to really attack the market the big way... Apple is on a roll right now, if they play it right they will gain a significant marketshare at consumer level, people are tired of Windows and its problems, now if Apple would offer a computer that IS the fastest in the world along with OS X and a couple of games and programs such as Autodesks Autocad and such they would gain a lot but I am sure they know it lol I am just wondering what IBM promised Steve Jobs when they knew that the 3GHZ wasnt goint to be a reality last year, I mean IBM has to be somehow obligated to Apple because there must be some kind of binding agreements and/contracts that certain timeframes must be met and such... Somehow I have a feeling that 970MP wont be such a distinguishable processor BUT I do believe that the Power5 derivative (which to my knowledge has a lot of similarities as Cell including the multiple OS support as well as the same amount of integer units) will be the processor that will begin to distance Apple in front of the computer world...

[fpnc]

You're right, today there aren't any dual-core Pentiums or even dual-processor Pentium systems. However, that's going to change in a very big way over the next year. The dual-core Pentium EE is going to ship in the second quarter and it's even possible that we'll see dual-core Pentium systems before we get the dual-core 970MP Power Mac. Intel says that by the end of 2006 their product mix for both desktop and notebook processors will be something like 70% dual core. So, it is not unfair to compare the dual-core Pentium EE to what Apple may be shipping in the same time frame. And, note, we know with almost certainty that the dual-core Pentiums are going to ship before summer, but as yet it is only rumor as to when the 970MP will appear.

As you seem to be willing to indicate, the current dual Power Mac G5s are at rough parity with current dual Xeons. However, both the dual G5s and the dual Xeons are pretty expensive systems (and the Xeon is more of a server chip, not really a desktop system). But, dual-core processors are going to change the price/performance equation pretty quickly. We're not going to get twice the performance for the same money, but we're likely to see significantly better performance for about the same money or similar performance for even less money (if that makes any sense). Simply put, more bang for the buck.

When you recognize that the entire PC industry has only increased desktop processor performance by about 25% over the last two years you can understand why this coming shift could be important. In the next three months we could see high-end desktop PCs and Macs jump by over 25% in performance, in some cases it could even be greater than that.

Finally, I'm pretty certain that the dual-core Pentium EE will be targeted and will first appear as a high-end desktop system for enthusiasts and workstation type applications. And that's exactly what the Power Macs are designed for.

Originally Posted by blitzkrieg79

ummmmmm, I dont think comparing Pentium 4 EE to a 970 class processor is fair cuz arent they for two different markets (consumer vs server)? I mean from what I understand all the IBM processors were designed to work best in multiple processor systems... As far as I know there really isnt too many dual Pentum 4 systems (in fact i think its zero) but there are Xeons duals and strangely a single Xeon may be a bit faster than a 970 but when they are in multiple processor arrangements, for example, a dual 970 clocked by almost a GHZ down is equal or beats a Xeon dual station in over 50% of benchmarks I have seen so far as well as from personal experience and sometimes the performance difference is rather extremely significant... On the other hand, we can argue all we want but for the past couple of years, IBM AMD and Intel has released processors that when it comes down to it all are about equal to performance at the high end... I would like to see Apple adopt some kind of Cell derivative technology to really outclass the competition for a while which I think would have been good for the market because computer technology has become stagnant lately, all I see is increases of couple of MHZ in Graphics cards, memory increases, but no one is bold enough to really attack the market the big way... Apple is on a roll right now, if they play it right they will gain a significant marketshare at consumer level, people are tired of Windows and its problems, now if Apple would offer a computer that IS the fastest in the world along with OS X and a couple of games and programs such as Autodesks Autocad and such they would gain a lot but I am sure they know it lol I am just wondering what IBM promised Steve Jobs when they knew that the 3GHZ wasnt goint to be a reality last year, I mean IBM has to be somehow obligated to Apple because there must be some kind of binding agreements and/contracts that certain timeframes must be met and such... Somehow I have a feeling that 970MP wont be such a distinguishable processor BUT I do believe that the Power5 derivative (which to my knowledge has a lot of similarities as Cell including the multiple OS support as well as the same amount of integer units) will be the processor that will begin to distance Apple in front of the computer world...

[Logik]

Originally Posted by quagmire

IBM confirms the PPC 970MP. IBM talks about cooling the monster and how the thermal diodes keep it from exceeding its maximum temperature. Which could also clue us in the dual core G5 Powerbooks and how it may cool itself down, when they do come out.

http://www-306.ibm.com/chips/techlib...256FC30083B0A9

once again, i'm highly doubting the 970 will make it into powerbooks... it's still way to hot. they may use some technology from this but i am thinking you'll see dualcore G4's from freescale for awhile.. they are just much more better suited for laptops. ibook will get what the powerbook has and the powerbook will get dual core..

i've been wrong before.. but i'm doubting you'll see a G5 in a powerbook anytime soon.. also just realize that the Powerbooks were just updated.. after a year of being stagnant... glad i bought mine when those were just released last year.. woulda been a long wait! You might see ibm working on something like an actual laptop processor PPC though i wouldn't expect anything for at least another year. which is why i say we'll see dual-core G4's around january-february next year

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by Logik

once again, i'm highly doubting the 970 will make it into powerbooks... it's still way to hot. they may use some technology from this but i am thinking you'll see dualcore G4's from freescale for awhile.. they are just much more better suited for laptops. ibook will get what the powerbook has and the powerbook will get dual core..

i've been wrong before.. but i'm doubting you'll see a G5 in a powerbook anytime soon.. also just realize that the Powerbooks were just updated.. after a year of being stagnant... glad i bought mine when those were just released last year.. woulda been a long wait! You might see ibm working on something like an actual laptop processor PPC though i wouldn't expect anything for at least another year. which is why i say we'll see dual-core G4's around january-february next year

If you were following TS's reports about the MP, GX, TS back in August, they also talked about low power G5's. Many people speculated the GX is the low power G5 due to IBM's history of the GX processor family. I have no respect for the the G4. IBM will increase its FSB faster then the 67 Mhz Moto squeezed out of the G4 when it debuted 6 years ago at 100 Mhz. Yes, it is a good laptop chip, but I feel the G5 pbook will come by WWDC or Paris. MWSF '06 by the latest.

[pubwvj]

Originally Posted by Logik

once again, i'm highly doubting the 970 will make it into powerbooks... it's still way to hot

Actually it means the opposite. It means Dual-Core G5 PowerBooks are MORE likely to be doable because either of the cores can be slowed down dynamically if the temperature starts to get to high. That will reduce power consumption and thus heat. Fan kicks in as necessary. A little liquid cooling to the case and you have a D-C G5 PowerBook. Cool.

[Object-X]

Wow, Quad Dual Core G5s!! They come in Quads? I'm getting one! They probably won't put quads in a Powermac though Sounds like a Xserve thing.

[GFLPraxis]

Originally Posted by Object-X

Wow, Quad Dual Core G5s!! They come in Quads? I'm getting one! They probably won't put quads in a Powermac though Sounds like a Xserve thing.

Well, the 970MP is a single processor with two cores. So its basicly two processors within the case of one.

The current PowerMac has two 970 processors (two G5s). So replace those two 970 processors with two 970MP processors, and you get two processors with two cores each, or the equivilant of 4 processors. Whoohoo

I think the single processor PowerMac will become dual core, and the dual processor PowerMac will become quad.

[sw1tcher]

Originally Posted by Object-X

Wow, Quad Dual Core G5s!! They come in Quads? I'm getting one! They probably won't put quads in a Powermac though Sounds like a Xserve thing.

They could call it the Quadra.

[kawa_on_mac]

Originally Posted by sw1tcher

They could call it the Quadra.

I would call them Double Dual G5

[Sunrunner]

Originally Posted by kawa_on_mac

I would call them Double Dual G5

Nah, Im sure Apple would just go with Quad G5 in such an instance. Its less sylibal-heavy and snappier.

[~Shard~]

Wow, this would be great! This would give the PowerMac line a serious performance boost. Can't wait to see what happens with this!