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Old Dec 8, 2011, 10:35 AM   #26
BornAgainMac
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I switched to Outlook 2011 and used it in a work setting with Exchange for 6 months. Switched back to Mail. Reasons is speed and more third-party access than Outlook 2011.

Also I wish Outlook 2011 could create PST files. I understand on the Mac why they used a different method because of Time Machine but an export feature would have been good.
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Old Dec 8, 2011, 11:18 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by craigtone View Post
You are exactly right! I did some testing this AM with a co-worker on Windows Outlook and it ALMOST worked flawless! :roll eyes:

We had issues where if he declined the invite initially or later after first accepting, I get an e-mail with a *.ics file and it does not auto-update iCal. I have to drag the *.ics file into iCal to get it to update. Likewise for an Acceptance from a Forwarded invite to my meeting.

Any ideas on this one or is it a known issue?
There is a checkbox in the Advanced preferences of iCal that says "Automatically retrieve CalDAV invitations from Mail". Do you have that checked? I do. Next time, before dragging that .ics file to iCal, go to iCal, Click on the Calendar Menu, and select Refresh All. Does iCal update correctly? I have not noticed any problems with iCal failing to update for me. If that fixes it, does iCal eventually get updated if you do nothing and wait for more than the refresh period specified in the Exchange Account preferences of iCal?
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Old Dec 12, 2011, 07:18 AM   #28
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Thanks to everyone's help, I got Mail and iCal working and have now officially broken-up with Outlook!

Outlook ... err Microsoft irritates me to no end! Outlook for Windows and Mac have two different file formats for messages (*.msg & *.eml) that cannot be read across platforms, *.pst files are not compatible across platforms, calendar invites lock the preview window, random crashing in Calendar, etc. I won't even mention Office doc compatibility issues! I get better formatting going from iWork and exporting M$ Office docs!

I am much happier since switching to Mail/iCal and even have seamless sync with my iPhone and iPad INCLUDING Notes and Tasks (Reminders) without the need for any 3rd-party apps!

In a Windows environment, I would succeed that Outlook is far superior. But in the Mac world, I am convinced Microsoft wants Mac to look bad, so stick with native Mac apps ... your sanity will thank you!
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Old Dec 12, 2011, 07:52 AM   #29
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Thanks to everyone's help, I got Mail and iCal working and have now officially broken-up with Outlook!

Outlook ... err Microsoft irritates me to no end! Outlook for Windows and Mac have two different file formats for messages (*.msg & *.eml) that cannot be read across platforms, *.pst files are not compatible across platforms, calendar invites lock the preview window, random crashing in Calendar, etc. I won't even mention Office doc compatibility issues! I get better formatting going from iWork and exporting M$ Office docs!

I am much happier since switching to Mail/iCal and even have seamless sync with my iPhone and iPad INCLUDING Notes and Tasks (Reminders) without the need for any 3rd-party apps!

In a Windows environment, I would succeed that Outlook is far superior. But in the Mac world, I am convinced Microsoft wants Mac to look bad, so stick with native Mac apps ... your sanity will thank you!
I've tried both and I cannot completely agree with your assessment. If you don't need to interoperate with Windows Outlook then perhaps Mail/iCal works for you, but my company is mostly Windows and I need Outlook for calendaring. Outlook also handles large email accounts far better than Mail; I work in support where we never delete old customer support emails, and Mail just chokes when trying to load my emails or trying to change folders. But I do agree that for smaller environments or for non-Exchange environments Mail works much better overall. I just can't use it.
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Old Dec 12, 2011, 08:49 AM   #30
MisterMe
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... I need Outlook for calendaring. ...
Why is iCal not working with your Exchange server?
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Old Dec 12, 2011, 08:53 AM   #31
danny_w
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Why is iCal not working with your Exchange server?
The last time I tried using iCal it was one way only (Exchange to iCal) and there was no way to create Exchange invites. I don't know if that has changed recently. I really like iCal but for Exchange users Outlook just seems so much more seamless and robust.
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Old Dec 12, 2011, 05:36 PM   #32
craigtone
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Originally Posted by danny_w View Post
The last time I tried using iCal it was one way only (Exchange to iCal) and there was no way to create Exchange invites. I don't know if that has changed recently. I really like iCal but for Exchange users Outlook just seems so much more seamless and robust.
I want to clarify based on your previous response to my post ...

iCal works perfectly with Windows Outlook users! We use Microsoft Exchange Server 2007 at work and we support both Windows and Mac and I can send and receive iCal invites without any problems! The only issue is that iCal does not support Push.

Outlook Calendar is the main reason I am ditching Outlook for Mac! It crashes when I try to attach files and the invite notifications lock-up my Preview window forcing me to restart Outlook several times a day.

FWIW, I am running Lion 10.7.2 and iCal 5.0.1
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Old Dec 13, 2011, 07:50 AM   #33
danny_w
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Originally Posted by craigtone View Post
I want to clarify based on your previous response to my post ...

iCal works perfectly with Windows Outlook users! We use Microsoft Exchange Server 2007 at work and we support both Windows and Mac and I can send and receive iCal invites without any problems! The only issue is that iCal does not support Push.

Outlook Calendar is the main reason I am ditching Outlook for Mac! It crashes when I try to attach files and the invite notifications lock-up my Preview window forcing me to restart Outlook several times a day.

FWIW, I am running Lion 10.7.2 and iCal 5.0.1
Very interesting indeed. If Mail could handle my mailbox easily I might give this a try. I am also on Lion 10.7.2 but Mail simply cannot handle large mailboxes well so I am using Outlook for Mac, and so using iCal would be extra work for me.
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Old Dec 13, 2011, 11:13 AM   #34
marcvienna
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Public folders on Exchange

Generally, I like Mail, AddressBook and iCal more than Outlook 2011. After having tried Outlook, I am currently using the Mac applications connected with the Exchange 2007 server of my institution. However, I am still uncertain what to prefer. Even though the entire handling and design of Mail etc. is much more fluent and streamlined with OS X Lion, there still is one really good reason to return to Outlook: access to the public folders, esp. calendars on Exchange.
I still don't understand why Apple didn't make this feature part of the OS X connectivity to Exchange. Admitted, public folders are being phased out by MS, but they are still a fundamental and widely used feature. For my iPhone, for instance, there is a tiny little app, which lets me see the public calendars of my institution. It costs a few Euros and is just a few MB large. Why the hell couldn't Apple integrate those few code lines into iCal? Obviously it wouldn't have been a big deal, it would have made our lives much easier and it would have kept me away from buggy (no google calendar sync, unstable access to GAL etc.) Outlook forever.
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Old Jan 4, 2012, 01:04 AM   #35
lkgeo
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Mail & Outlook

Thanks for the ongoing comments.
I started with Entourage on my Mac and was actually looking forward to Outlook, but when I couldn't sync my calendar with my phone I moved everything to Mail and iCal (and OmniFocus for tasks/projects). I don't connect to any Exchange servers, and I use IMAP for email. It works fine.
My only regrets about Mail and iCal are small annoying efficiency things - for example, I'd like to click a calendar entry and edit it directly rather than taking an extra step to "Edit" or "Get Info". [edit: turns out command-I or a preference option - will do this. great!] I wish I could set a different "snooze" delay for an alarm beyond 1m, 5m, etc. (I'd also like a consolidated view, but that's a whole different topic.)
Every so often I'm tempted to see how Outlook is doing these days, but so far I'm holding firm. It takes a while to sort out the pros & cons, and Mail's working well enough...

Last edited by lkgeo; Jan 4, 2012 at 01:18 AM. Reason: update on calendar edit
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Old Jan 4, 2012, 07:17 AM   #36
quasinormal
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Try both? I use Mail, but have Outlook 2011 and just out of interest typed in my me.com address and password. Both are running and receive the same messages. (my messages aren't deleted from the server)
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Old Jan 4, 2012, 08:24 AM   #37
Chafka
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I started out with Mail and hooked up with my companies email everything was good. I decided to move to Outlook for Mac due to some of the nice bells and whistles (easier to coordinate with coworkers, sorting emails by date (showing the actual days of week instead of just a date), etc.) BUT, I decided to move back to email for one HUGE reason: with Outlook I could not store my emails off of the Exchange server and on my hard disk where I could back them up and reduce my mailbox size on the server. Mail allows me to store them locally and back them up.
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Old Jan 4, 2012, 04:31 PM   #38
asf1966
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I started out with Mail and hooked up with my companies email everything was good. I decided to move to Outlook for Mac due to some of the nice bells and whistles (easier to coordinate with coworkers, sorting emails by date (showing the actual days of week instead of just a date), etc.) BUT, I decided to move back to email for one HUGE reason: with Outlook I could not store my emails off of the Exchange server and on my hard disk where I could back them up and reduce my mailbox size on the server. Mail allows me to store them locally and back them up.
Is this a limitation set by your Admin folks? With Outlook open, can't you navigate through File>Account Settings>Email>Change and check the box for Cached exchange Mode. I have it engaged on my machine running OL 2010 using Exchange2010 and all my mail gets stored on the server and locally (in the form of an .ost file). I am able to make a copy of the OST file on an external device.

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Old Jan 17, 2012, 04:59 PM   #39
altvin
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Mac Mail versus Outlook for Mac

I was looking for others who had to decide between Mac Mail or Outlook for Mac and ran cross this line of comments. Is anyone having problems with sending emails to certain mail servers (such as aol) from Mac Mail? For some reason, some mail servers just bounce back the mail. Particularly AOL and Roadrunner. So i have to use Outlook for those emails. Anyone else encounter that problem? Thanks!
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Old Jan 17, 2012, 05:21 PM   #40
TheKingOfHearts
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Hey,

Welcome to MacRumors! I'm pretty damn new myself. I was in a similar boat. Both have their own benefits, but it also depends what email protocol you're using. I'm using Exchange, and whilst I originally opted for the iProducts, I ended up using Outlook simply for the convience of all-in-one solution (I regularly forgot to open iCal and Address Book). In my experience its purely interface preference, I find Outlook easier being all-in-one and 'similar' (similar being key!) to Outlook 2010 which I use on my windows devices.

In the end, both will function perfectly with imap/pop/Exchange accounts, and like I said, for me it purely came down to personal preference. I might also add, again, that both support a number of mail accounts, however if you're using a lot, I'd suggest using Mail as in my opinion it groups them better (simple mail account selector on the right hand side)

Regards,
Jack.
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Old Jan 17, 2012, 07:06 PM   #41
MisterMe
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Originally Posted by TheKingOfHearts View Post
Hey,

Welcome to MacRumors! I'm pretty damn new myself. I was in a similar boat. Both have their own benefits, but it also depends what email protocol you're using. I'm using Exchange, and whilst I originally opted for the iProducts, I ended up using Outlook simply for the convience of all-in-one solution (I regularly forgot to open iCal and Address Book). ...
The only time that you need to open either iCal or Address Book is when you need to read entries in the databases or to manually edit them. You do not need to open either application to receive a calendar event or new address book entry via email.

Quote:
Originally Posted by altvin View Post
I was looking for others who had to decide between Mac Mail or Outlook for Mac and ran cross this line of comments. Is anyone having problems with sending emails to certain mail servers (such as aol) from Mac Mail? For some reason, some mail servers just bounce back the mail. Particularly AOL and Roadrunner. So i have to use Outlook for those emails. Anyone else encounter that problem? Thanks!
Mail works perfectly with AOL accounts--using either AOL's older settings or its recently published new settings. AOL put a new webmail site online where you may find its new settings. There is only one reason to use Outlook 2011. That is if you have an account on Exchange 2007 or higher. Microsoft's database design for Entourage/Outlook makes the application fragile. If for some reason the database is corrupted, you will be in a world of hurt. For Entourage/Outlook, this is a very rare event. For Mail and every other email client, this is a non-existent event.
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 07:07 AM   #42
altvin
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Aol

You put AOL settings on your mac mail to be able to send emails to AOL accounts? That may be way above my pay grade. Can you point me to a tutorial to know how to do this. Real pain to switch to Outlook just to send emails to AOL accounts.
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 09:42 AM   #43
MisterMe
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You put AOL settings on your mac mail to be able to send emails to AOL accounts? That may be way above my pay grade. Can you point me to a tutorial to know how to do this. Real pain to switch to Outlook just to send emails to AOL accounts.
This is not a paid task. AOL Mail settings are very similar to those of other IMAP accounts:
  1. Launch Mail.
  2. Select the Mail/Preferences... menu item.
  3. In the preferences pane, click the Accounts tab.
  4. Click the + beneath the sidebar.
  5. In the dialog box, type in your name, full AOL email address, and password.
  6. When done, click the Account Information tab.
These should be your settings:
  • Account Type: AOL IMAP. (This is not editable.)
  • Description: AOL
  • Email Address: aolusername@aol.com
  • Full Name: Aoluser Name
  • Incoming Mail Server: imap.aol.com
  • User Name: aolusername
  • Password:
  • Outgoing Mail Server (SMTP): smtp.aol.com:aolusername
  • TLS Certificate: None
Click the advanced tab. You may need to make two changes:
  • Port: 587
  • Authentication: Password
If you want to use Outlook rather than Mail, then the account settings are essentially the same. However, I do not believe that Outlook has the built-in wizard for AOL mail.
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Old Jan 18, 2012, 01:29 PM   #44
jlc1978
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Originally Posted by thetruereview View Post
Can someone give me their unbiased view / experiences as to Outlook for Mac 2011 vs Mail? If there has been a comprehensive discussion thread about it before, I'm happy for someone to post a link.
I'm in a similar situation and I prefer Outlook's integrated calendar / contact setup; plus the ability to use Exchange server when a client provides me with an email account. It has its quirks but having used PC Outlook for year it has a comfortable feel that I am used to using.

For me, as another poster pointed out, Exchange compatibility is the main selling point.

That said, I also use Mail for my non-buissiness emails to keep the clutter down. It's a fine program, but I found having all my accounts on 1 app tended to clutter up the screen and I risked missing an important email. There are a number of neat add ons for Mail, Contacts and Calendar; and they integrate easily with the iPhone; although Exchange Server does as well.

I've never been a fan of OS X's contact or calendar, but that's mainly because of the way they look.

What I'd consider is - does one set offer a functionality the other doesn't that I need and base a decision on that.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcvienna View Post
For my iPhone, for instance, there is a tiny little app, which lets me see the public calendars of my institution. It costs a few Euros and is just a few MB large. Why the hell couldn't Apple integrate those few code lines into iCal?
I agree - that would due a useful feature. What's the app's name, BTW?
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 01:20 PM   #45
altvin
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Macmail/AOL

MisterMe: Thanks for the info. But I am not sure we are on the same wavelength. I don't have or want an AOL account. I am happy with the assortment of email addresses I have. The problem is that I cannot send an email, from my Mac Mail (no matter which email account I am using - be it gmail, yahoo, hotmail, whatever, but NOT AOL) to someone who has an AOL email address. So if i want to send an email from my NON AOL email account to someone who has an X@aol.com, it bounces back to me. So I have to go to my Outlook system and it allows me to send an email (once again NOT with an AOL address) to someone with an AOL address. Just not sure if anyone else has emails to AOL recipients routinely have them bounced back to them. Or am I just missing this entirely? Thanks.
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 07:24 PM   #46
MisterMe
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MisterMe: Thanks for the info. But I am not sure we are on the same wavelength. ...
The solution is the same irrespective of whichever user account you use. Set the SMTP port to Port 587 and use password authentication.
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 07:37 PM   #47
Skyrim
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I use outlook. It is great for me. If possible, you can give both a try.
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Old Jan 20, 2012, 12:24 AM   #48
thasan
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I am new to Mac and I couldn't copy paste attachments to outlook for some reason. I had to navigate to folders to attach files...yikes!!
Also, couldn't find a way to get contacts and cals directly from my iPhone. And loved the functionality of adding events to iCal directly from mail as it picks up date and time nicely. While i think some of the stuffs i just mentioned have a simple work around, i just didnt want to spent time on this. Just god rid off outlook a couple of days ago. Not going back.
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Old Jan 20, 2012, 04:19 AM   #49
Codestud
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I installed Outlook 2011 to access my work-based Exchange Server and my Google Mail. However, I found that it didn't work with IMAP on Google Mail very well, so I went back to using Mail.

Also, in Lion, Mail is better than it was in Snow Leopard so that was another reason for me to switch back.
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Old Jan 22, 2012, 03:23 PM   #50
infobleep
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I am considering switching to Outlook 2011 but with 8GB or more of e-mail, it's not a decision to take lightly, incase it went wrong.

I'm actually more keen to find an alternative Mail plug-in to Mail-Act-On. Mail-Act-On does a similar job to Outlook, in providing advanced mail rule actions. Mail-Act-On is made by Indev. It allows for AND and OR to be used. Mail can't do this natively but Outlook for Windows could and I'm sure Outlook 2011 would.

The problem I and some others are having with Mail-Act-On, is that it is duplicating e-mails when rules are applied. Over time one can have over 1000 duplicate e-mails [I have several e-mail accounts, some for mailing lists]. This problem has been on going for more than 2 years and Indev have not been able to reproduce this bug themselves in that time, which makes it more difficult for them as people such as myself who use their software.

I have no interest or need for exchange myself. So would be using my local hard disc to store the e-mails. However Outlook for Windows stored all e-mails in one file and I never considered that a good thing, having all your messages in one basket. I archive a lot of e-mailing lists on my computer and find it useful to search through them, so I definitely don't want them in one file, just waiting to get corrupt. It may never happen but I'd rather it didn't and an 8GB file isn't efficient.

I'm not sure if Outlook 2011 stores all mail in one file. I know it uses a database as well as the .OLM format but I couldn't find out much more than this during my searches on-line. Personally I like single message files or individual files for folders.

I've also never lost any mail, touch wood, with Mail and it does seem to handle my e-mails reasonably well. Perhaps Outlook would be even better. However I'm undecided as to whether to try it, in case I lose some e-mails in the process and migrating to and from won't be a simple process I'm sure.

Then there is a Google situation of syncing calendars. However I am demoing BusyCal and I think that can sync Outlook to Google, just as it came iCloud to Google, which is how I currently have it set. The trail is going fine so far so I may well purchase it. I personally don't need the calendar in the same program as I mainly access it via my iPod Touch.

However Mail-Act-On isn't a very good solution right now and it may never be, which is why I'm really hoping someone might make an alternative plug-in for Mail. or I may have to switch to Outlook 2011.

Kind regards
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