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Old Jun 1, 2011, 04:32 PM   #1
Eric-PTEK
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Virtualization solution for OSX Server that runs as service?

I just built my OSx server box to consolidate down my Win2KR2 box.

I still need Server 2008 so I want to virtualize it inside of OSX server but most of the products I saw looked like desktop products, meaning you have to launch them.

Which one runs as a service(in windows terms) like Hyper-V where you do not need to be logged in?
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Old Jun 1, 2011, 05:02 PM   #2
thankins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric-PTEK View Post
I just built my OSx server box to consolidate down my Win2KR2 box.

I still need Server 2008 so I want to virtualize it inside of OSX server but most of the products I saw looked like desktop products, meaning you have to launch them.

Which one runs as a service(in windows terms) like Hyper-V where you do not need to be logged in?
Afraid there isn't a solution like you are looking for. You can have one of the apps start at login but of course need to have the server always logged in which could be a security issue.
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Old Jun 1, 2011, 05:57 PM   #3
MacTower
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric-PTEK View Post
I just built my OSx server box to consolidate down my Win2KR2 box.

I still need Server 2008 so I want to virtualize it inside of OSX server but most of the products I saw looked like desktop products, meaning you have to launch them.

Which one runs as a service(in windows terms) like Hyper-V where you do not need to be logged in?
I can't make an analogy to Windows terms, but you could run the VM in headless mode. You could launch it automatically when the machine starts up by way of a LaunchDaemon.

I currently run headless Ubuntu VMs using VirtualBox. You simply create the VM as usual with the desktop application, then you can launch it via the command line using the command 'VBoxHeadless' and it runs in the background.
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Old Jun 1, 2011, 08:03 PM   #4
Eric-PTEK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thankins View Post
Afraid there isn't a solution like you are looking for. You can have one of the apps start at login but of course need to have the server always logged in which could be a security issue.
I'm not worried about security, this is in my house.

So got me wondering how exactly this is a server when it won't run anything when people are not logged in.

I'm seeing conflicting info on launchd. One article says launchd runs on boot without login, another says it does not.

If I can launch iTunes, the VM's, etc on boot without logging in thats what I'm looking for.

Thanks for the replies. I'm moving the data off my old server now and will set up a new RAID10 array under OSx and see how this goes.
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Old Jun 1, 2011, 09:07 PM   #5
MacTower
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric-PTEK View Post
I'm not worried about security, this is in my house.

So got me wondering how exactly this is a server when it won't run anything when people are not logged in.

I'm seeing conflicting info on launchd. One article says launchd runs on boot without login, another says it does not.

If I can launch iTunes, the VM's, etc on boot without logging in thats what I'm looking for.

Thanks for the replies. I'm moving the data off my old server now and will set up a new RAID10 array under OSx and see how this goes.
Launchd literally brings up the operating system. It is a replacement for older things like init, rc, cron and so on. You don't have to log in for launchd to do it's job; just pushing the power button on your Mac is sufficient to get launchd going.

LaunchDaemons run as root, while LaunchAgents typically run as a non-root user. You can make the decision of which you want to use. Once you do, simply write a Launch* file and put it in the appropriate directory. You can manuallly load it with launchctl, or just restart and the system will load it for you.

Reading your reply, however, it sounds like you're more interested in convenience than security. You also want to run iTunes, which has a GUI. In that case, save yourself the hassle of doing any of this and just turn on Automatic Login and drag the things you want to your 'Login Items' pane.
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Old Jun 1, 2011, 09:21 PM   #6
Eric-PTEK
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Originally Posted by MacTower View Post
Launchd literally brings up the operating system. It is a replacement for older things like init, rc, cron and so on. You don't have to log in for launchd to do it's job; just pushing the power button on your Mac is sufficient to get launchd going.

LaunchDaemons run as root, while LaunchAgents typically run as a non-root user. You can make the decision of which you want to use. Once you do, simply write a Launch* file and put it in the appropriate directory. You can manuallly load it with launchctl, or just restart and the system will load it for you.

Reading your reply, however, it sounds like you're more interested in convenience than security. You also want to run iTunes, which has a GUI. In that case, save yourself the hassle of doing any of this and just turn on Automatic Login and drag the things you want to your 'Login Items' pane.
You are correct, security is not a huge concern.

However I do need the server to start up processes if it goes down for some reason or has to restart itself. The VM of server 2008 will have the important stuff in it and that will be protected, but that has to come back up. If the UPS shuts down the server due to power loss I need the VM's to start up on reboot, of course iTunes and the rest would be nice too.

For iTunes all I want it to do is launch so we can share. I so wish Apple would come out with an iTunes server. We have 2 Apple TV's and looking for the convenience of always on.

Same with our Aperture library. I am absolute shocked at how fast Aperture is over the network, more shocked because the new server is my old Mac, faster over the network than it was local. I haven't even put the RAID array in. Now if it was only multi-user....

I've learned looked at the general problems with Apple's multiuser software. Apple refuses to support mySQL internally and they lack a solid database system. Everything and the kitchen sink runs on SQL Server, and works well because of it. I doubt Apple would ever use mySQL as their backend but would solve a lot of multi-user problems for their apps.

Thanks for the info, I have some reading to do.

Last edited by Eric-PTEK; Jun 1, 2011 at 09:26 PM.
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Old Jun 1, 2011, 10:07 PM   #7
MacTower
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric-PTEK View Post
You are correct, security is not a huge concern.
Of course it is a huge concern. I just meant that you don't seem concerned with it for your case

Quote:
However I do need the server to start up processes if it goes down for some reason or has to restart itself. The VM of server 2008 will have the important stuff in it and that will be protected, but that has to come back up. If the UPS shuts down the server due to power loss I need the VM's to start up on reboot, of course iTunes and the rest would be nice too.

For iTunes all I want it to do is launch so we can share. I so wish Apple would come out with an iTunes server. We have 2 Apple TV's and looking for the convenience of always on.
Right. And you can accomplish exactly this the hard way, by using launchd, or the easy way, by turning on Automatic Login and dragging items into your 'Login Items' pane. You might not be able to get around running VBoxHeadless via launchd, but the setup will be pretty straightforward. Done correctly, either method will keep your services up, even after a forced reboot (barring some data corruption or other issue caused by a forced reboot).

Quote:
I've learned looked at the general problems with Apple's multiuser software. Apple refuses to support mySQL internally and they lack a solid database system. Everything and the kitchen sink runs on SQL Server, and works well because of it. I doubt Apple would ever use mySQL as their backend but would solve a lot of multi-user problems for their apps.
Apple's strategy in supporting multi user access to the same data stores is Xsan. It's hardly cost effective for a home user, however. I definitely agree that Apple should release some type of 'iTunes Server' software; perhaps the upcoming iCloud will address this.

Best of luck in your setup! Post back here if you need any further advice.
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