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Old Jun 10, 2011, 02:17 PM   #1
labaom
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Snow Leopard > Lion

I am currently on the latest build of Mac OSX Lion and I STRONGLY believe that Snow Leopard is a better overall operating system. I will be fair and continue to test it until it reaches final but things will not change much as it is a month from release.

UI:

Buttons - The buttons are now small and harder to push. When you hover over one, all of them show their functions (X, -, +). They do not look right and consistent with the UI.

Transition Effects - I understand it is still beta. However, from what I see now, the effects are very poor. For example when emptying the trash, there is a lag for the window to pop up.

Finder/iTunes - iTunes 10 was a sneak preview of Lion's new UI. I do not understand why Apple would go from a colorful theme to a black and white one. It is very boring. Also, the shades of grey make it seem like the buttons are sometimes greyed out (inactive), but they actually work. Below, I think it is obvious which looks better.



vs.



Full Screen Button - Full Screen applications are cool. However, that button really bothers me. I wish it only showed up when you put your mouse over it. It simply makes things look more complication in OSX.

Gestures/New Features:

Mission Control - The point of Mission Control is to merge Expose and Spaces. However, I have never met anyone that actually uses spaces. Therefore, Mission control wastes space for me to choose applications on my screen. It simply makes it harder. The gesture for it (4 fingers slide up) use to be for hiding all applications. Now if you want to hide them, you have to do an uncomfortable thumb + three fingers up gesture. Sometimes the gesture doesn't work and takes me into Launch Pad.

Launch Pad - When you get your Mac for the first time, you have three stacks on your dock. Applications, Documents, and Downloads. Launch Pad makes it harder for you to get to your apps since it is easier to open up a stack.

Resume - Resume is actually a cool feature as a backup plan for anything going wrong. However, when most people turn off their computers, they turn if off for a reason. I have to uncheck that I do not want to resume when I shut down every time. I wish there was a way to completely disable it.

Versions - Pretty cool I admit.

Summary:

In all, Lion is just an update to Snow Leopard with an attempt to change the UI for the better. However, it is even more inconsistent than before. Snow Leopard is much nicer in terms of color and design. Lion also includes many features that make things more complicated and less functional (Mission Control). None of these features are really needed for me and many users. I understand this is still in development. But there are no bugs I can tell in Lion, just functionality problems due to the new features. Mac is suppose to be about simplicity, but now it is becoming more complicated and down hill. I hate to say it, but Apple may just be out of ideas. I will be fair and try it again when final comes out, however, if it stays like this I have no problem going back to Snow Leopard.

What are your thoughts?
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Old Jun 10, 2011, 02:41 PM   #2
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My response:

The open/close/minimize buttons look sharper. I like them, and I don't find them harder to click. Someone posted here that they actually have the same clickable area as the previous buttons.

Animations: They can be a bit gratuitous at times, but they're pretty slick. They will speed up by the final version.

B/W Icons: agreed. Luckily it will be easy to fix.

FS button: This replaces the "pill" button in many cases, so I don't see this as added clutter. It's important that it remain visible so you know when you can go fullscreen.

Mission control: I like it because it gives you more information than Expose at a glance. However, it should be an additional view to the current "all windows" expose, which is superior in many cases because there's no window overlap.

Launchpad: Useless, agreed. Though unlike with a stack, you can access it with a gesture, and you have more power as to arrange things. But I won't be using it.

Resume: I agree that there should be an option to completely disable it, but for me, 99% of the time when I am shutting down or restarting, I want to get back to exactly where I was. I love it.

You are forgetting some key new features, such as Mail and the new Autosave API. Those are my two favorite new features, along with versions.
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Old Jun 10, 2011, 03:15 PM   #3
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I disagree. I personally think Lion DP4 is much better than Snow Leopard. But that's DP4 - the other ones seemed much worse.

You did make some good points, but I would like to point out my own views.

Buttons - They are small and take a bit of getting used to. But you do get the hang of it.

Transition Effects: Up 'till DP4 I would have completely agreed. Now I have to say that the graphical transitions are performing better for me than they ever have before.

Finder/iTunes: Black and White? Oh, you mean the little icons. I barely noticed, TBH. A feature to turn on the color would be nice from time to time, but it doesn't really bother me.

Full Screen Button: Unless I want to use it, I hardly even notice it.

Mission Control: The gesture I can understand. But I use Spaces/MC all the time. It works great, IMO.

Launchpad: I think Launchpad is meant to be a home for MAS apps. And you are never forced to use it, the choice is yours. And yes, I guess stacks are easier.

Resume: Completely agree.

Versions: Completely agree. Except for the fact that they removed "Save as..." and replaced it with "Save a version...". I used Save As all the time.

Overall: I'd say Lion is a nice upgrade by my books, especially for only $30.
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Old Jun 10, 2011, 03:15 PM   #4
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Quote:
Buttons - The buttons are now small and harder to push. When you hover over one, all of them show their functions (X, -, +). They do not look right and consistent with the UI.
that screenshot is not from the latest build at all
That is the latest Finder:

The buttons are the same size, same look but with a gray line instad of black
(the close/minimize/zoom buttons are smaller tho)

I feel this less aggressive and more pleasant than the one on snow leopard

Quote:
Transition Effects - I understand it is still beta. However, from what I see now, the effects are very poor. For example when emptying the trash, there is a lag for the window to pop up.
I dont see this lag on the latest build, the animation is very cool and very fast its done before you even take the mouse off the trash icon, it takes less than 1 second!


Quote:
Finder/iTunes - iTunes 10 was a sneak preview of Lion's new UI. I do not understand why Apple would go from a colorful theme to a black and white one. It is very boring. Also, the shades of grey make it seem like the buttons are sometimes greyed out (inactive), but they actually work. Below, I think it is obvious which looks better.
I like the graysh icons, I feel the UI cleaner with less colors on it, the icons are very easy to read despite of the lack of colors

Quote:
Full Screen Button - Full Screen applications are cool. However, that button really bothers me. I wish it only showed up when you put your mouse over it. It simply makes things look more complication in OSX.
I didn't get your point, what's the problem with the zoom button, this button replaces a useless button called "pill" that use to hide the toolbar, I think that hide him as you suggest would bring more complication than simplicity in OS X

Quote:

Mission Control - The point of Mission Control is to merge Expose and Spaces. However, I have never met anyone that actually uses spaces. Therefore, Mission control wastes space for me to choose applications on my screen. It simply makes it harder. The gesture for it (4 fingers slide up) use to be for hiding all applications. Now if you want to hide them, you have to do an uncomfortable thumb + three fingers up gesture. Sometimes the gesture doesn't work and takes me into Launch Pad.
People that don't use spaces due the complexity of setting it up, might start to doing with Lion, because it's much simpler to add/remove spaces now with the add space button on Mission Control. People that are hardcore spaces user are complaining about the spaces being linear instead the old grid, but I think the new spaces will bring more users to it. this new spaces are very similar to the virtual desktops introduced in Gnome 3.

The gestures: now I can do more with the mission control gestures than I was able to do in SL, the gestures are more precise in the latest build (DP4) than was on the build you have. the spread gesture is a very natural gesture to the feature and I like this. The LaunchPad gesture is the same gesture that was in iOS 4.3 beta and will be on iOS 5 to access the home, I think very consistent. The swipe left/right to access the dashboard/spaces is very consistent too. Swipe down to access the appplication window is very useful and wasn't there in SL.



Quote:
Launch Pad - When you get your Mac for the first time, you have three stacks on your dock. Applications, Documents, and Downloads. Launch Pad makes it harder for you to get to your apps since it is easier to open up a stack.
In Lion I don't think that will come with application stack anymore, the launchpad is more complete than just a stack and for people that are used to iOS will be more familiar with it. In lauchpad, you find a more natural way to delete your apps, just like in iOS, than trash them in trash can. you can move apps around putting the apps you use more first. You can stack them in folders just like iOS. and when you delete a app from lauchpad it closes the app if it's open and remove the icon from dock. I like this feature.

Quote:
Resume - Resume is actually a cool feature as a backup plan for anything going wrong. However, when most people turn off their computers, they turn if off for a reason. I have to uncheck that I do not want to resume when I shut down every time. I wish there was a way to completely disable it.
You can disable it in the new general preferences, but resume is a very, very important feature, because you don't have to worry about saving or, more important, losing data in the documents in case of a power failure or a crash.



The are many other improvements in lion that is not on this thread tha makes Lion far more superior than Snow Leopard
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Old Jun 10, 2011, 03:22 PM   #5
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I recall a few things from past OS X releases mainly:
Jaguar (10.2) is waaaay better than Panther (10.3)

a year later

Panther (10.3) is so much better than Tiger (10.4)

a year or two later

Tiger (10.4) kills this new Leopard (10.5)

and eventually

Leopard (10.5) > Snow Leopard (10.6)

Which finally brings us to this thread. Give it time friends... and also wait for the GM to start ranting about how much you hate 10.7.

EDIT: BTW I use Spaces and love it.
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Old Jun 10, 2011, 03:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GimmeSlack12 View Post
I recall a few things from past OS X releases mainly:
Jaguar (10.2) is waaaay better than Panther (10.3)

a year later

Panther (10.3) is so much better than Tiger (10.4)

a year or two later

Tiger (10.4) kills this new Leopard (10.5)

and eventually

Leopard (10.5) > Snow Leopard (10.6)

Which finally brings us to this thread. Give it time friends... and also wait for the GM to start ranting about how much you hate 10.7.

EDIT: BTW I use Spaces and love it.
That is why I acknowledged that I cannot make a perfect opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredcintra View Post
that screenshot is not from the latest build at all
That is the latest Finder:
Image
The buttons are the same size, same look but with a gray line instad of black
(the close/minimize/zoom buttons are smaller tho)

I feel this less aggressive and more pleasant than the one on snow leopard



I dont see this lag on the latest build, the animation is very cool and very fast its done before you even take the mouse off the trash icon, it takes less than 1 second!




I like the graysh icons, I feel the UI cleaner with less colors on it, the icons are very easy to read despite of the lack of colors



I didn't get your point, what's the problem with the zoom button, this button replaces a useless button called "pill" that use to hide the toolbar, I think that hide him as you suggest would bring more complication than simplicity in OS X



People that don't use spaces due the complexity of setting it up, might start to doing with Lion, because it's much simpler to add/remove spaces now with the add space button on Mission Control. People that are hardcore spaces user are complaining about the spaces being linear instead the old grid, but I think the new spaces will bring more users to it. this new spaces are very similar to the virtual desktops introduced in Gnome 3.

The gestures: now I can do more with the mission control gestures than I was able to do in SL, the gestures are more precise in the latest build (DP4) than was on the build you have. the spread gesture is a very natural gesture to the feature and I like this. The LaunchPad gesture is the same gesture that was in iOS 4.3 beta and will be on iOS 5 to access the home, I think very consistent. The swipe left/right to access the dashboard/spaces is very consistent too. Swipe down to access the appplication window is very useful and wasn't there in SL.





In Lion I don't think that will come with application stack anymore, the launchpad is more complete than just a stack and for people that are used to iOS will be more familiar with it. In lauchpad, you find a more natural way to delete your apps, just like in iOS, than trash them in trash can. you can move apps around putting the apps you use more first. You can stack them in folders just like iOS. and when you delete a app from lauchpad it closes the app if it's open and remove the icon from dock. I like this feature.



You can disable it in the new general preferences, but resume is a very, very important feature, because you don't have to worry about saving or, more important, losing data in the documents in case of a power failure or a crash.



The are many other improvements in lion that is not on this thread tha makes Lion far more superior than Snow Leopard
I am on Beta 4. I took that screenshot from the web. I still disagree the buttons look very unpleasant. But I wish I can have the old Expose back or at least have an option. Also, I want more control of what function is each gesture. The default gestures on Snow Leopard worked MARVELOUSLY. If I could go back to that default I would. I understand Apple wants people to use Spaces. But people won't lol. I want more screen real estate for expose.

Last edited by Mitthrawnuruodo; Jun 10, 2011 at 03:53 PM. Reason: Merging posts, please use MULTIQUOTE and/or EDIT...
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Old Jun 10, 2011, 03:34 PM   #7
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Resume can be disabled in the latest development preview. Just go to preferences, general and you will find the option.
I also like the Finder in Snow Leopard better. I hate the fact that I can't put the devices on top of my favorites.
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Old Jun 10, 2011, 03:34 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by labaom View Post
Mission Control - The point of Mission Control is to merge Expose and Spaces. However, I have never met anyone that actually uses spaces.

I used Spaces all the time in SL, very handy I think....
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Old Jun 10, 2011, 03:37 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GimmeSlack12 View Post
I recall a few things from past OS X releases mainly:
Jaguar (10.2) is waaaay better than Panther (10.3)

a year later

Panther (10.3) is so much better than Tiger (10.4)

a year or two later

Tiger (10.4) kills this new Leopard (10.5)

and eventually

Leopard (10.5) > Snow Leopard (10.6)

Which finally brings us to this thread. Give it time friends... and also wait for the GM to start ranting about how much you hate 10.7.

EDIT: BTW I use Spaces and love it.
But to be fair, I prefer the UI of Panther more than any UI that came after it. I actually postponed upgrading to Leopard, and then skinned the dock, because I hated the new Leopard dock so much.

Now I keep my dock on the left, so I don't have to look at the fugly foe-3d shelf.

If 10.3 had Dashboard and Time Machine, (and developer support) I'd still be using it. There's nothing that Apple's added since then that I use, only thing I dislike.
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Old Jun 10, 2011, 03:39 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kristoffers4 View Post
I used Spaces all the time in SL, very handy I think....
I also use Spaces very much and I don't like the new way of doing things in Lion.
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Old Jun 10, 2011, 03:41 PM   #11
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Well I don't have Lion yet but things like icon color and smaller sizes won't deter me.

Just based on features alone I cannot concur with any statement that Snow Leopard is better than Lion.
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Old Jun 10, 2011, 03:44 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejadedmonkey View Post
But to be fair, I prefer the UI of Panther more than any UI that came after it. I actually postponed upgrading to Leopard, and then skinned the dock, because I hated the new Leopard dock so much.

Now I keep my dock on the left, so I don't have to look at the fugly foe-3d shelf.

If 10.3 had Dashboard and Time Machine, (and developer support) I'd still be using it. There's nothing that Apple's added since then that I use, only thing I dislike.
You can use SuperDocker to make the Dock 2D.

Quote:
Originally Posted by petvas View Post
I also use Spaces very much and I don't like the new way of doing things in Lion.
I actually prefer Lion's way. I never used Spaces with SL because it was a separate function but now that is has been combined with Expose, I find myself using it much more and I also like it.
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Old Jun 10, 2011, 04:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petvas View Post
I also use Spaces very much and I don't like the new way of doing things in Lion.
I use spaces all the time and in fact have an app on my Windows machine to simulate spaces. Using it with a hot corner is the WTG.
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Old Jun 10, 2011, 05:54 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by labaom View Post
...I cannot make a perfect opinion.
I can: System 7 > Mac OS X


I kid! I kid!
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Old Jun 10, 2011, 06:30 PM   #15
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This reminds me of all the "Tiger > Leopard" threads that filled these forums back in the day.

OP: If you don't like Lion: don't use it. No-one else really cares much. Especially when there is already an active thread of a similar nature in this forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thejadedmonkey View Post
If 10.3 had Dashboard and Time Machine, (and developer support) I'd still be using it. There's nothing that Apple's added since then that I use, only thing I dislike.
If Windows 98 still had developer support, I'd still be using it. Seriously, I loved that OS.
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Old Jun 10, 2011, 06:36 PM   #16
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I hate the fact that I can't put the devices on top of my favorites.
This is one of the few things I'll admit I hate about Lion. Apple moved the arrangement of the sidebar to be similar to iTunes, which has "devices" at the bottom. However... when you're trying to access the root directory of a drive, intuitively it should be placed at the top.

Hoping this can be fixed with a hack or hidden terminal command, but I seriously doubt it. It's probably hard-coded in Finder's binaries.
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Old Jun 10, 2011, 06:39 PM   #17
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To be honest, I quite like the look of Lion!
Except where you say they're changing the 4 fingers up gesture so it does Launch Pad? Don't like.

It's all personal preference, obviously. Some people will love nearly all changes. Others will hate everything. Same with anything, really.
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Old Jun 10, 2011, 07:13 PM   #18
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Taking me a while to get used to scrolling. It scrolls like iOS now which is...cool but different.

I hate how they got rid of FOUR FINGERS DOWN. They should've left 4 fingers down for Mission control.
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Old Jun 10, 2011, 07:19 PM   #19
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Don't be afraid about the gestures. Just deactivate them and enable them the way you want using BetterTouchTool or JiTouch
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Old Jun 11, 2011, 07:59 AM   #20
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If I wanted a grey operating system, I would just switch back to Windows 98. Color is very important. If Apple is going to put in features like these new gestures and mission control, we could be able to do everything Snow Leopard did in options. Therefore, Apple needs to give more control over gestures without a 3rd party application and let us decide if we want Mission Control vs. Normal Expose. Thats my big gripe. I can understand now people actually use spaces. But for those who just use Expose, it is easier to have it by itself because you can see more windows as it is not small like in Mission Control.
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Old Jun 11, 2011, 08:10 AM   #21
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I cannot say anything about this at the present moment as I haven't been able to use lion for the same or half the amount of time, I have used Snow Leopard.

But Lion is such a great improvement.

I mean basic features like Full Screen Apps in itself is sooo much beneficial in normal use and I can now see why Mission Control has only 1D space structure unlike a 2D space structure in SL.

Full screen apps, mission control, resume(I'd pay $99 just for this feature), etc.

Just when I boot my mac into Lion, I get all my workspace as it was. Terminal on Desktop3, Safari on Desktop5, iTunes, Skype on Desktop6.

Universal auto-spell, great UI tweaks, etc. For me, this is worth the same price as OS X Leopard for $129 but Apple has done a great job with this Operating system. Terminal is a life saver for me but it now works so much better under lion; I absolutely cannot explain.

But I'll leave my judgement for later.
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Old Jun 11, 2011, 08:12 AM   #22
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Therefore, Apple needs to give more control over gestures without a 3rd party application and let us decide if we want Mission Control vs. Normal Expose. Thats my big gripe.
But you can decide if you want to use Mission Control or Expose. Check the trackpad settings!
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Old Jun 11, 2011, 08:33 AM   #23
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But you can decide if you want to use Mission Control or Expose. Check the trackpad settings!
I did EXTENSIVE checks before. There is no way (currently) to go back to regular expose in Lion. You can get App Expose, but that is different. I not only want one app to show but all of them like in Snow Leopard. My goal is to get the default functions/gestures from Snow Leopard in Lion.

Like I would prefer hide all apps 4 finger swipe up like in Snow Leoparad. In lion you have to do this uncomfortable gesture which you cannot change. Also I would like NORMAL expose with 4 finger swipe down.
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Old Jun 13, 2011, 12:02 PM   #24
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Have to admit, i think Lion is going to be brilliant at golden master. currently, i've used every DP and i think DP4 takes a bit of getting used to from DP3. for example, i got to this thread because i couldn't work out for the life of me where spaces setup had gone. now i know its in the mission control at the top. personally, i think thats a nice looking feature, but theres no need for it not to be in system preferences. what i love about OSX, well, SL, is that everything you need to change is in system preferences. now, it isn't, certain things have moved around, for example, why on earth 'drag-lock' is in Universal access i will never know!
as for mission control etc, i think it is a nice touch but i don't like it. i much preferred expose because it was so much simpler! but i love the fact you can drag apps into different spaces with it. that really is a nice touch, a mixture of expose's simplicity and MCs complexion would make it perfect
but I'm not gonna lie, my motto with SL was always "if in doubt, 4 fingers up" showing the desktop when you nearly get caught doing something you shouldn't (whether playing angry birds in class or making a withdrawal from 'the bank') you could always get out of a sticky situation, poor wording, with 4 fingers up. but the 4 finger away pinch, far too complicated, don't like that 1 bit!
but apple knows it has its faults, its a preview, its probably going to be as different at golden master as DP4 was from DP3. which i think is drastically.
I don't like full screen apps because i like to have safari with me at all times. so i won't be using that but i think your point of 'the icon is in the way' is a bit off colour because i think its in the best place
i don't like the revised photo booth, i think it was better before but i LOVE the new safari. the page switching (back and forth) is genius! that really is a pleasure to use. and my god the downloads button at the top is a work of art! something i loved about chrome was that your downloads were with you instead of having that god-awful extra window that safari gave you. one of the main reasons i stopped using it in SL. but in Lion, i have no intention of even downloading chrome! but there again, i don't like the spell checking feature. it corrects words it shouldn't, a feature that i was hoping was exclusive to iOS. but with all that said and done, i like it! i think it'll be well worth the upgrade from Snow Leopard, but i might keep the SL installation disc just incase! haha!
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Old Jun 13, 2011, 12:44 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by mwaxx View Post
Have to admit, i think Lion is going to be brilliant at golden master. currently, i've used every DP and i think DP4 takes a bit of getting used to from DP3. for example, i got to this thread because i couldn't work out for the life of me where spaces setup had gone. now i know its in the mission control at the top. personally, i think thats a nice looking feature, but theres no need for it not to be in system preferences. what i love about OSX, well, SL, is that everything you need to change is in system preferences. now, it isn't, certain things have moved around, for example, why on earth 'drag-lock' is in Universal access i will never know!
as for mission control etc, i think it is a nice touch but i don't like it. i much preferred expose because it was so much simpler! but i love the fact you can drag apps into different spaces with it. that really is a nice touch, a mixture of expose's simplicity and MCs complexion would make it perfect
but I'm not gonna lie, my motto with SL was always "if in doubt, 4 fingers up" showing the desktop when you nearly get caught doing something you shouldn't (whether playing angry birds in class or making a withdrawal from 'the bank') you could always get out of a sticky situation, poor wording, with 4 fingers up. but the 4 finger away pinch, far too complicated, don't like that 1 bit!
but apple knows it has its faults, its a preview, its probably going to be as different at golden master as DP4 was from DP3. which i think is drastically.
I don't like full screen apps because i like to have safari with me at all times. so i won't be using that but i think your point of 'the icon is in the way' is a bit off colour because i think its in the best place
i don't like the revised photo booth, i think it was better before but i LOVE the new safari. the page switching (back and forth) is genius! that really is a pleasure to use. and my god the downloads button at the top is a work of art! something i loved about chrome was that your downloads were with you instead of having that god-awful extra window that safari gave you. one of the main reasons i stopped using it in SL. but in Lion, i have no intention of even downloading chrome! but there again, i don't like the spell checking feature. it corrects words it shouldn't, a feature that i was hoping was exclusive to iOS. but with all that said and done, i like it! i think it'll be well worth the upgrade from Snow Leopard, but i might keep the SL installation disc just incase! haha!
Thank you for understanding my concern with four fingers up desktop. By default Apple should allow us to change anything we want. I know there are programs that allow us to fix it though. But don't you like how Expose is now? You can see all your programs. With mission control its harder because they are grouped together in a smaller part of the screen. Like many people I do not use spaces (and probably never will). Because of this, Apple should keep the option for regular expose (not App Expose in Lion). Also, the UI is ugly. I see no reason why they made the buttons smaller, it is uglier. I am sure there will be a way to fix it. Also, I am not a fan of the grey finder stuff. I know iTunes previewed this, but Mac should stay colorful. Finder in SL is perfect . I don't plan on upgrading unless changes are made to accomodate those who like SL. I will however be testing out GM to give a more fair review. But I doubt major things will change though.
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