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Old Jun 16, 2011, 09:14 AM   #1
Ulf1103
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How to convince my parents to let me buy a 17" MacBook Pro

Hy I'm 18 and I'm going to need a laptop for college.
I'm going to studie computer science at the University.
(Not sure if it's called that way in English, but basically I'm gonna be programming a lot (it also includes heavy generating of data and processing it)

How can I convince my parents to let me buy a MacBook pro?

Specs:
Because I want to have a big screen I wanted to buy the 17" MacBook pro.
It seems robe the best laptop that there is.

I don't really need the best of everything (if you think there's a better combined solution for the study I'm gonna do, please tell) so I'm oke with the standart CPU and RAM, but I want to have the ssd (128 GB, and 1TB external drive for other stuff).
No software needed, only warranty.


I'm from Belgium and I save up to 3000€ to spent (I've 6000€ total, but I'm only gonna spent 50%).

My brother only spent 1000€ for his laptop (now it's almost 3 years old and getting slower, battery for hard work is 30 min, was 1,5h).


Can someone say some good reasons to tell my parents why buying a MacBook pro would be better then a pc laptop?
Considering the price tag?

Please help me, 'cause I don't know how to convince them.
You know, I nagged 2 months befor they let me buy my iPhone 3GS 32GB of my own money (sim-lock free) €675.
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Old Jun 16, 2011, 09:17 AM   #2
simsaladimbamba
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It is your money and you are 18, isn't that the age you are considered an adult before the law?

Maybe you could convince your parents showing them eBay auctions of three year old Macs, which still get a lot of money, meaning that the MBP you will buy for 3000 € could be considered a good investment and will not lose that much value as a cheaper Windows laptop.
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Old Jun 16, 2011, 09:29 AM   #3
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Depends on the law in Belgium. I think you're 18 (=adult) and it's your money and you've worked for it.

End of discussion.

If it's your money and you're 18 years old you can do whatever you want with it.

Enjoy
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Old Jun 16, 2011, 09:39 AM   #4
Ulf1103
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It is your money and you are 18, isn't that the age you are considered an adult before the law?
Yes, but I may not buy it unless they approve, 'cause otherwise they'll trow me out of the hous...

Quote:
Originally Posted by simsaladimbamba View Post
Maybe you could convince your parents showing them eBay auctions of three year old Macs, which still get a lot of money, meaning that the MBP you will buy for 3000 € could be considered a good investment and will not lose that much value as a cheaper Windows laptop.
Well, that's a good idea.
But I'll probably need 9 more.

Thanks olready for your answer.
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Old Jun 16, 2011, 09:47 AM   #5
applewins
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Yes, but I may not buy it unless they approve, 'cause otherwise they'll trow me out of the hous...



Well, that's a good idea.
But I'll probably need 9 more.

Thanks olready for your answer.


They would throw you out the house because of that?

Hell you're in serious troubles :S Allready spoke with another person about that? Maybe with a teacher in school?

Here another advice: Maybe you could offer your parents something. Like buying the food (which takes a lot of time for them), help in the garden (if you have one), etc. Offer them something and show them that you really want the MBP and that you're ready to give something for it.

Plus don't forget the money you get from selling your current laptop (if you want to sell it).

Bottom line, your parents seem to be kinda strange :/ At least you don't have to give them anything when you buy any device with your own money, but it seems like they could change their mind if you offer them something.


EDIT: Plus, when you study, you will need help from your parents. It's almost impossible to manage your life over years when you don't have a full-time-job (or no job at all because your studies take so much time).
Make sure, that your parents know that. They should also know that it's likely impossible to manage your studies with an old pc which is not able to handle large datas etc.

I think they would be on a drugs-trip if they throw you out the house/don't let you study just because of that
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Old Jun 16, 2011, 10:05 AM   #6
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Well, as a self-proclaimed expert in convincing people to do things they don't think they should or consider to be humane in any sense (examples being large purchases from my parents for the former and filthy, unimaginable actions from my girlfriend for the latter), maybe I can help.

I've found that large purchases - erm, I mean investments (get used to calling it that) - can be divided into two distinct categories: Utilization (what you'll use it for) and value (is the price justified).

For utilization:
  • Make an extensive list of everything you'll use it for. This will show your parents 200 different reasons to how and why you'd use it.
  • Compile a list of OSX-only software that you need. This will help justify why you can't use a Windows PC to do some of things you want or are required to do.
  • Show benchmarks and speed tests to show how quick and efficiently a MBP will help you with your school work.
For value:
  • Obviously a MBP is going to cost more than any other laptop (well most of them), so you're going to have to describe why.
  • Provide ample examples of consumer and product reviews. Your word and opinion can only get you so far. Having them read expert and consumer reviews will drastically help your case.
  • Show how well they hold their resale value. Apple is notoriously known for having really good resale value. It's like getting a car or a house or any other type of purchase that you may sell later on. It's a smart purchase so your parents should be able to relate.
  • Perhaps how you can get an educational discount through your university (if possible). Saying things like "My university recommends these! They even help students purchase them by discounting them". Plus, it'll help show that you're trying to make a responsible purchase.
  • Use mathematical figures and statistics to show how long it'll last verse its price (like $2000 over 4 years is only $500 a year, which is only ~$40 a month, which is only ~$1.20 a day). Compare these numbers to perhaps a Windows laptop that doesn't last as long, or a similar priced household object. Things your parents can relate to or see they (or you) can afford more easily just makes more sense.

The more you throw at your parents at one time (perhaps making a nice folder as a proposal or big slideshow), the better. Large words, numbers, comparisons, the whole shebang. And then... throw in a little begging, praising them for how proud they should be that they raised a child who is bettering themselves by going off to a university.

Also, don't give up. Keep bugging them, reminding them, and dropping hints until they give in.
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Old Jun 16, 2011, 10:09 AM   #7
Ulf1103
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They would throw you out the house because of that?

Hell you're in serious troubles :S Allready spoke with another person about that? Maybe with a teacher in school?
Haha, no, I'm not sure if they would trow me out (I dought it) but I see them returning it. What the real situation is is that I don't have a credit card and my mom wan't let me have one, 'cause I simply don't need it.

In other words, I can't get at my money whithout asking my mom.

I don't own a laptop at the moment, my belter has one.


So that's why I need to convince them.

Last edited by Ulf1103; Jun 16, 2011 at 10:35 AM.
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Old Jun 16, 2011, 10:22 AM   #8
Ulf1103
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Originally Posted by KylePowers View Post
Also, don't give up. Keep bugging them, reminding them, and dropping hints until they give in.
Wow, thanks for the advise.
I can get the discount, but I already calculated it.

I'll try to make the list and I'll post it here later. (It will take some hours.)
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Old Jun 16, 2011, 10:24 AM   #9
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Your parents just want what is best for you. They may feel that an MBP17 is way too expensive for you and that the money would be spent better elsewhere.

Saying that you are 18 and that it is your money is not a great idea. That will jeopardize the relationship you have with your parents - and that I think is worth way more than a MBP17.

If you want to convince them. You need to convince yourself first. If you can't think of any reasons why you would want a MBP17 over any other laptop, then maybe you don't need it.
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Old Jun 16, 2011, 10:25 AM   #10
applewins
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[QUOTE=Ulf1103;12769388][QUOTE=applewins;12769270]They would throw you out the house because of that?

Hell you're in serious troubles :S Allready spoke with another person about that? Maybe with a teacher in school?
Quote:

Haha, no, I'm not sure if they would trow me out (I dought it) but I see them returning it. What the real situation is is that I don't have a credit card and my mom wan't let me have one, 'cause I simply don't need it.

In other words, I can't get at my money whithout asking my mom.

I don't own a laptop at the moment, my belter has one.


So that's why I need to convince them.


hmhm another problem for you :S with 18 years you should be able to manage your money yourself. in addition you have to do the taxes on your own, if you work you get money for that and you should be able to use it as you want.
if you ask me, talk to them not just about the MBP, but also about other changes in your life when you start studying. i don't think you want to ask your mom everytime for some money when you have to buy something.

HELL YOU'RE 18 !!!
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Old Jun 16, 2011, 11:02 AM   #11
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This forum peeps really need to stop telling the OP that he's 18 and just help him out. I think he knows he's 18.

Buddy what I recommend if you don't need specs is to buy a way cheaper macbook pro, say the low end 15" which still has a dedicated graphics card and it a great comp, then buy an external display you can get a 19" LCD for 150Euros or less if you look for a sale. Then use the laptop while in class and all and use the big display when doing your work at home, this would be a lot cheaper than the 17" MBP.

To convince your parents tell them macs dont get viruses, tell them about the education price, about the free 100$ Mac app store gift card, so you can buy iwork for college instead of office.
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Old Jun 16, 2011, 11:05 AM   #12
Ulf1103
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Originally Posted by SidBala View Post
Your parents just want what is best for you. They may feel that an MBP17 is way too expensive for you and that the money would be spent better elsewhere.

Saying that you are 18 and that it is your money is not a great idea. That will jeopardize the relationship you have with your parents - and that I think is worth way more than a MBP17.

If you want to convince them. You need to convince yourself first. If you can't think of any reasons why you would want a MBP17 over any other laptop, then maybe you don't need it.
I knew, but I don't wont a pc, 'cause our pc at home really hates me…
And I hate it back.
(It's xp, I also work with 7 on school, but I prefer OSX Lion)
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Old Jun 16, 2011, 11:29 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by ojaysimsanson View Post
This forum peeps really need to stop telling the OP that he's 18 and just help him out. I think he knows he's 18.

Buddy what I recommend if you don't need specs is to buy a way cheaper macbook pro, say the low end 15" which still has a dedicated graphics card and it a great comp, then buy an external display you can get a 19" LCD for 150Euros or less if you look for a sale. Then use the laptop while in class and all and use the big display when doing your work at home, this would be a lot cheaper than the 17" MBP.

To convince your parents tell them macs dont get viruses, tell them about the education price, about the free 100$ Mac app store gift card, so you can buy iwork for college instead of office.
Thanks, but I'm going to college in October so, I'll waiting for the next gen. MacBook pro's to come and then buy it. The $100 aren't gonna be for me.

It's probably a good idea, the LCD screen. I though about it, but when you're working on a 15" screen, with two text documents open, you'll need to downsize the document 'cause it won't fit completely on the screen. With a 17" it does nicely. That's why I wanted the 17", but if there's no other way, I'll go with the 15". But the one with the better GPU, I'll need it.
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Old Jun 16, 2011, 11:45 AM   #14
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I had complete freedom with my money when I was a kid. That was a bad thing. I wish my parents had protected me from myself somewhat like yours are.

The best advice I have is to use standard negotiation tactics. Start by asking for the top model. When the argument starts, suggest compromise by selecting the much less expensive 15". In reality it's probably better for you anyway. It's smaller, lighter, and more portable.

Even if you buy a large external monitor, you'll still save money, plus you'll have a larger monitor to use. Actually, you'll have a dual screen setup.
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Old Jun 16, 2011, 11:55 AM   #15
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I had complete freedom with my money when I was a kid. That was a bad thing. I wish my parents had protected me from myself somewhat like yours are.

The best advice I have is to use standard negotiation tactics. Start by asking for the top model. When the argument starts, suggest compromise by selecting the much less expensive 15". In reality it's probably better for you anyway. It's smaller, lighter, and more portable.

Even if you buy a large external monitor, you'll still save money, plus you'll have a larger monitor to use. Actually, you'll have a dual screen setup.
I'll give it another thought.
More portable isn't really a problem for me. I sometimes needed to go to school with a backpack of 10 to 15kg. I'm used to that.
Two screens, I like the idea, but I can use the LCD screen from the old pc at home for it (no wires, just software that I found)
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Old Jun 16, 2011, 12:00 PM   #16
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Thanks, but I'm going to college in October so, I'll waiting for the next gen. MacBook pro's to come and then buy it. The $100 aren't gonna be for me.

It's probably a good idea, the LCD screen. I though about it, but when you're working on a 15" screen, with two text documents open, you'll need to downsize the document 'cause it won't fit completely on the screen. With a 17" it does nicely. That's why I wanted the 17", but if there's no other way, I'll go with the 15". But the one with the better GPU, I'll need it.
The "next-gen" MBPs aren't being released before 2012, that is when Intel releases new CPUs.
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Old Jun 16, 2011, 12:01 PM   #17
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Het is een status symbool ...

zeg dat Mac de toekomst is voor developers (iOS + Mac( = snelste groeier in de pc industrie)) ... je moet ze con'en, hun op de een of andere manier zelf laten inzien dat een mac de beste optie is . Ma das nu al te laat zeker, want je bent waarschijnlijk zelf met het idee afgekomen ... Tis niet dat je ze gaat kunnen overtuigen met een lijst van rationele argumenten, je moet ze emotioneel proberen te bespelen, onderzoeken waarom ze iets tegen mac's hebben.
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Old Jun 16, 2011, 12:26 PM   #18
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The "next-gen" MBPs aren't being released before 2012, that is when Intel releases new CPUs.
I know, they'll ptobebly gonna come out end 2011 - start 2012
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Old Jun 16, 2011, 12:40 PM   #19
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Het is een status symbool ...

zeg dat Mac de toekomst is voor developers (iOS + Mac( = snelste groeier in de pc industrie)) ... je moet ze con'en, hun op de een of andere manier zelf laten inzien dat een mac de beste optie is . Ma das nu al te laat zeker, want je bent waarschijnlijk zelf met het idee afgekomen ... Tis niet dat je ze gaat kunnen overtuigen met een lijst van rationele argumenten, je moet ze emotioneel proberen te bespelen, onderzoeken waarom ze iets tegen mac's hebben.
Ze hebben nx tegen mac's, mar wel tegen te veel geld uitgeven voor iets wat je goedkoper kan krijgen…
Maar het is wel een goed idee om te zeggen dat Mac en OS de toekomst is voor developers

Dat zal ik op m'n lijstje zetten
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Old Jun 16, 2011, 12:56 PM   #20
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Does your school have a computer lab of macs? Some schools in my area do. Maybe you could last a week or so in school without your own computer and then get your MBP while in school so your parents don't know.
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Old Jun 16, 2011, 12:59 PM   #21
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Does your school have a computer lab of macs? Some schools in my area do. Maybe you could last a week or so in school without your own computer and then get your MBP while in school so your parents don't know.
That's a bad idea, 'cause on what am I gonna work at home?
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Old Jun 16, 2011, 01:05 PM   #22
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Translated with google translate for all of you. Sjhonny has some good ideas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulf1103 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sjhonny View Post
It's a status symbol ...

say that the future for Mac developers (Mac + IOS (= fastest grower in the PC industry)) ... One must con'en, on their own somehow understand that a Mac is the best option. Ma tie is already too late for sure, because you're probably own idea come off ... Tis not going to convince them with a list of rational arguments, you should try to play them emotionally, explore why they have anything against Mac.
They have nx on mac's, in March and against too much money for something you can get cheaper ...
But it's a good idea to say that Mac OS and the future for developers

I'll put on my list
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Old Jun 16, 2011, 01:32 PM   #23
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Based on what your studies will be, I think you are making a smart choice with the 17" Macbook Pro. It is current technology and will last several years. You can't get a nicer laptop, and although it seems expensive, it's worth every penny. You get the big beautiful display , lots of power , and best of all, you will get a free upgrade to OSX Lion! You will want to get Applecare for it. You won't regret buying such a nice machine. I wish I had the cash for one!
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Old Jun 16, 2011, 03:14 PM   #24
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Then we find ourselves in a pickle here :/

Since there's no Windows programming environment for OS X, you'll have virtualize Windows or use Bootcamp. That renders every OS X argument nearly inert :/ you can try and lie about that, but than you'll have an issue if your parents ask someone else they know and actually knows something about the ICT industry. I don't know of any Cocoa lessons (on College/University level) available, anywhere in Belgium, so learning Cocoa is a long term project here.

Also: XCode is a great program, it's very easy to use but there are some issues.
First of all: for every new program, doesn't matter how small on meaningfulness, you'll have to create a new project. Which consist of a lot of useless clutter for someone writing "hello world" programs or other small command-line only utilities. For those programs you're better of using free command line utilities like GCC (standard on every UNIX machine - thus both OS X as virtually any Linux distro), which is kinda also available for Windows :/ but I'm guessing there are like way easier ways to compile using GCC on Windows/Mac than using the Command Line.
Secondly: it's not until digging into Cocoa that you'll be able to use XCode properly. Cocoa is a Library of frameworks and packages you can use, it's not a language but uses a not that often used language: namely Obj C (a superset of C). Using this language is quit different in usage than C or C++. It's actually quit hard learn both C and Obj C at the same time.

You could go for the hardware argument (bleeding edge TB ports, cpu's, GPU's) ...

Actually I'm not that fond of the latest MBP, and as suggested here before, I'd wait for the next upgrade. Since it'll be a major redesign, you'll have a real hardware argument. Right now, the machine is OK, it's not bad at all. But still a TN panel as a display (crossing my fingers to see IPS panels in future devices) ? SSD's cost like 500 bucks extra, while only offering half the performance of a 300 bucks Vertex III? Also the machine runs very hot and the battery life has decreased substantial (in comparison to previous generations) while being under load. - But al my "complains" are technical mombojumbo to your parents, so just don't mention them to your parents.

I know I sound contradictive, but your studying something that, right now, in your stadia, doesn't really benefit from the Apple Ecosystem. It'll be very hard to work on OS X, while every other student will use Windows.
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Old Jun 17, 2011, 06:30 AM   #25
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Reasons why I need a MacBook pro 17":

1) I need a 17" screen 'cause when you're working on 2 text doc. it will fit just on the screen, with a 15" in won't. (You can see that for yourself at our own pc.)
2) The MacBook pro screen has a very high resolution 1920 by 1200 (that's higher then any 17" pc laptop) LED screen.
3) It has 2 GPU's, one very powerful for when it's needed. Yes I'll be needing a good GPU for the work at school, but not all the time. That's were the other, low energy GPU is for, for a longer battery life.
4) It has the longest battery life of all laptops. (7hrs low usage and can be charged a 1000 times before losing anything of that 7hrs battery life. Any other laptop is at 500 times. So the battery lives longer.
5) The MacBook pro's are made to last, the will easily become 6 years without losing to much speed. A pc laptop will be having a hard time after the 3th year (watch my brother laptop, and it's not even 3 years old => losing speed and battery life)
6) The OS of a Mac is way better then windows. *OSX gets refreshed +/- every year, windows +/- 2 years. Updating OSX cost 24€, updating windows 120€.
That means that after 6 years (only OS) the MacBook pro will be: 120x(3-1) "because I need to buy an other pc laptop and then you get the OS for free" - 24x6 = 96€cheaper.
The battery of a Mac will need a replacement after:*
(at 5 recharges a week, weekend is at the AC)
1000/5x7 = 3.8 years (and then it will last less then 7hrs)
=> no replacement needed after 6 years.
Now the pc laptop:
(battery life is 4 to 5hrs so 8 recharges a week)
500/8x7 = 1.2 years*(and then it will last less then 4 to 5hrs)
1 extra battery purchase each laptop, that's 2x150€ = 300€.
The laptop cost 1200€ so buying io twice will give an extra cost of 1200€
That's in total
Pc laptop: 2x1300 + 2x150 + 100 = 3000€ +2x200(extra warranty for both laptops
=3400€
MacBook pro: 3111€ + 99€ 1TB external drive = 3200€
(17" best CPU, 8GB RAM and 128GB ssd)

So, basically the MacBook pro is €200 cheaper.

If you then loon for sellingprices of 3years old pc (new 1300€) you can sell it for 200-300€
you so it twice so you get 400-600€ back.
I'll then need to sell my MacBook pro for 200-400€ well, that should be possible I think.

If you have you're MacBook pro for 6years you'll paid 1.46€ a day
That's 45€ a month.


That's what my parents will hear.
I think and hope they'll be convinced.


Ps: I didn't look up the price of the insurance (I know that that +/- was the price when my brother insured his laptop) and I didn't look up the price for a new battery for a specific ripe of laptop, the one I founded were the ones on the first site of google.

If you think that there is something wrong in it, please tell.
If you think of any other advantage or so that will help me to convince my parents, please reply.


Thanks for all your support so far.

I'll be putting this in excel (with an actual laptop to compare) when my exams are done (I'll post the excel here when it's ready and if it's possible and befor I tell my parents) and I'll tell you guys what my parents said after I told them this.
I'll try to post it before July.
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