Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Apple Hardware > Desktops > Mac Pro

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Jun 29, 2011, 07:42 PM   #1
Chaos123x
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Will apple kill off the Mac Pro now that ThunderBolt can be used for high speed storage, multiple connections, video capture cards, expansions, and even GPU upgrades?

With laptops and iMacs now having quad core processors and thunderbolt do we really need the Mac Pro anymore? Or will the demand for future 32 core macs keep the platform alive?
Chaos123x is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 29, 2011, 07:43 PM   #2
soco
macrumors Demi-God
 
soco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NJ
No. Apple has beefed up the other lines of Mac, as well as added new lines. Mac Pros will get their lovin' soon.
__________________
TMobile iPhone 6 128GB Slate MacBook Pro (2011)
Canon EOS Rebel T3 Canon 28mm f/1.8
^ Retired by iPhone 6? ^
Contribute to MacRumors: Become a Demi-God!
soco is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 29, 2011, 07:44 PM   #3
VirtualRain
macrumors 603
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
There's a less confrontational thread on this already... http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1178548

Of course, there are situations where only a Mac Pro will do the job, but those cases are getting more and more fringe.

It's a question of economics really. If a lot of folks or businesses that might have purchased Mac Pro's in the past, now start buying laptops and iMacs with TB accessories, then, yes, the Mac Pro might come to an end. However, if enough people keep buying Mac Pro's to satisfy Apple's profitability targets for the product line, they will probably continue making them. Of course no one really knows how profitable the Mac Pro is and/or what Apple's threshold for keeping/killing it is, so one can only speculate.
__________________
tools: nMP for photography, rMBP for working, iPad for surfing, iPhone for communicating, Mac Mini for entertaining
Canon tools: 5D Mark III 24-105L/70-300L/35L/50L/85L for capturing

Last edited by VirtualRain; Jun 29, 2011 at 07:49 PM.
VirtualRain is online now   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 29, 2011, 07:46 PM   #4
simsaladimbamba
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: located
Mac Pros can have up to 12 cores, current iMacs don't have as much.
Then there are the GPUs, which are still faster than the ones you might be able to connect to a "SLOW" TB port (slow for GPUs), Then there is RAM expandability (64GB currently).
Then there are a lot more options to expand it.
The Mac Pro is still needed, and if Apple would discontinue it, several thousands of companies would lose, thus Apple would lose a lot of money.
And the Mac Pro is "cheap" to make, as it uses general parts (even expensive ones) and the box hasn't been upgraded a long time (the exterior).
Apple would be stupid to kill the Mac Pro.
But maybe they are stupid.
simsaladimbamba is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 29, 2011, 08:05 PM   #5
Chaos123x
Thread Starter
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

I thought thunderbolt was faster then pcie hence no thunderbolt expansion cards.
Chaos123x is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 29, 2011, 08:08 PM   #6
simsaladimbamba
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: located
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos123x View Post
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

I thought thunderbolt was faster then pcie hence no thunderbolt expansion cards.
TB offers two 10Gb/s channels, modern GPUs can use 60Gb/s and more.
simsaladimbamba is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 29, 2011, 08:12 PM   #7
Cindori
macrumors 68040
 
Cindori's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sweden
name 1 thunderbolt peripheral you can actually buy today

edit: ok http://store.apple.com/us/product/H5184VC/A/Thunderbolt
__________________
Cindori .org - unique Mac software!
New release: Control Center for Mac!
Home of Trim Enabler, Zeus Flashing Tool and Kext Drop!
Cindori is offline   -1 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 29, 2011, 08:12 PM   #8
philipma1957
macrumors 603
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos123x View Post
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Will apple kill off the Mac Pro now that ThunderBolt can be used for high speed storage, multiple connections, video capture cards, expansions, and even GPU upgrades?

With laptops and iMacs now having quad core processors and thunderbolt do we really need the Mac Pro anymore? Or will the demand for future 32 core macs keep the platform alive?
(First) please change your title to;

Mac Pro = Mac Pro Eol ?

(Second) there are now 8 core single cpus iMacs do not have them.

(Third) mac pros have matte screen option

(Fourth) the gpus in mac pros are actually up to date when evenever they first come out. the 5870 was just about the best gpu for aug sept oct last year

(Fifth) I think mac pros will stick around for a while longer. maybe 2016 or so.
philipma1957 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 29, 2011, 08:16 PM   #9
Chaos123x
Thread Starter
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

I thought thunderbolt was faster then pcie hence no thunderbolt expansion cards.
Chaos123x is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 29, 2011, 08:23 PM   #10
MacinJosh
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Finland
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos123x View Post
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

I thought thunderbolt was faster then pcie hence no thunderbolt expansion cards.
Dude, TB *is* essentially PCIe x4. Not nearly as fast as x16.
__________________
Mac Pro 5,1 Quad 2.8Ghz - 5770 - 12GB - 120GB SSD - 6TB
iPhone 6+ 64GB Gold
Apple TV3 / iPhone 4S - 16GB / iPhone 4 - 16GB
iPad Mini Retina - 32GB / iPad 3 - 16GB - Black
MacinJosh is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 29, 2011, 08:28 PM   #11
derbothaus
macrumors 601
 
derbothaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by VirtualRain View Post
It's a question of economics really.
Also a question of longevity. 4 year old Mac Pro's can still hang. Most iMac's have fried in that timeline. Either by death to display or motherboard or anything else. Heat kills them the fastest. Apple keeps putting faster, hotter procs in them and at the same time slims them down more and more and slows down the fans to keep things quiet when you are web browsing. But when you do real work with it you get too close to thermal shutdown for my liking. This reduces the parts life even more.
__________________
Mac Pro W3680, GTX 680, 12GB DDR3, SSD; MBP, 2.6GHz Core i7, 16GB DDR3, SSD; Eizo fs2333
derbothaus is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 29, 2011, 10:33 PM   #12
goMac
macrumors 603
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos123x View Post
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

I thought thunderbolt was faster then pcie hence no thunderbolt expansion cards.
As mentioned above, Thunderbolt is PCIe, but only PCIe 4x.

One Thunderbolt channel is only equivalent to a low to mid-speed single PCIe slot.

Still fast, but not nearly fast enough for something like a high end GPU.
goMac is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 29, 2011, 10:44 PM   #13
VirtualRain
macrumors 603
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbothaus View Post
Also a question of longevity. 4 year old Mac Pro's can still hang. Most iMac's have fried in that timeline.
LOL... good point!
__________________
tools: nMP for photography, rMBP for working, iPad for surfing, iPhone for communicating, Mac Mini for entertaining
Canon tools: 5D Mark III 24-105L/70-300L/35L/50L/85L for capturing
VirtualRain is online now   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 29, 2011, 10:49 PM   #14
AppleDApp
macrumors 68020
 
AppleDApp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Businesses appreciate the expandability of the mac pro if Apple stops offering the mac pro I think some will looking into hackintosh machines.
AppleDApp is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 29, 2011, 11:26 PM   #15
nanofrog
macrumors G4
 
Join Date: May 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by VirtualRain View Post
It's a question of economics really. If a lot of folks or businesses that might have purchased Mac Pro's in the past, now start buying laptops and iMacs with TB accessories, then, yes, the Mac Pro might come to an end. However, if enough people keep buying Mac Pro's to satisfy Apple's profitability targets for the product line, they will probably continue making them. Of course no one really knows how profitable the Mac Pro is and/or what Apple's threshold for keeping/killing it is, so one can only speculate.
It's definitely a combination of economics and shift in technology (TB + consumer parts will fill the requirements of more users than what was possible in the past), which will likely eat away at the MP's sales figures when users recognize that the lower cost iMac will fit their needs.

Yes, there may be sacrifices for shifting to an iMac for some users, but economics ultimately rule (and we're still in a recession afterall...). Those that must still have a MP, will buy one if it's still available at the time of purchase (i.e. those that cannot deal with aspects such as a glossy monitor, no PCIe slots, can utilize the additional cores of a DP system on a consistent basis, embedded GPU is too slow, must have ECC, ...).

I see this trend gaining traction in the near future as well, as consumer oriented CPU's will have 8 cores on one die according to Intel's roadmaps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by simsaladimbamba View Post
Mac Pros can have up to 12 cores, current iMacs don't have as much.
Then there are the GPUs, which are still faster than the ones you might be able to connect to a "SLOW" TB port (slow for GPUs), Then there is RAM expandability (64GB currently).
Then there are a lot more options to expand it.
The Mac Pro is still needed, and if Apple would discontinue it, several thousands of companies would lose, thus Apple would lose a lot of money.
And the Mac Pro is "cheap" to make, as it uses general parts (even expensive ones) and the box hasn't been upgraded a long time (the exterior).
Apple would be stupid to kill the Mac Pro.
But maybe they are stupid.
They're in business to make money though, just as any other company. So if the MP's sales figures drop below the threshold if it being a profitable product, I don't see them continuing with it (i.e. use it as an advertising vehicle).

They're making the bulk of their profits in other segments, such as the iDevices, and there doesn't seem to be an end to this (look at all of the recent iPhone revisions and introduction of new products such as the iPad for example).

We don't know the actual % of Apple's profit margin that comes solely from the MP, but what evidence is available, doesn't indicate that it's all that large (MP's sales figures are combined with all of the other computers <laptops, iMac and Mini>, and this combined segment of "computers" is still smaller than the device market ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos123x View Post
I thought thunderbolt was faster then pcie hence no thunderbolt expansion cards.
No. Not even close.

A Thunderbolt chip requires 4x PCIe lanes to transfer it's data to the system, and doesn't even utilize all of the bandwidth (TB up and down combined, is good for 1.6GB/s according to Intel <they stated 800MB/s sustained in either direction>, while those same 4x gen 2.0 PCIe lanes are good for 2GB/s).

Now consider 16x of those lanes (gen 2.0), which is good for 8GB/s. PCIe gen 3.0 lanes each provide a bandwidth of 1.0GB/s, which will increase the gap even further.

So PCIe is capable of much faster speeds.

TB is great for laptops and AIO systems that don't have slots however, so it has a potential market if it can gain traction (this aspect still remains to be seen, as it's very early yet).

But for a desktop only, it has limited value ATM. That's not to say it's useless, as it could allow peripherals to be shared with portable computers, or capture data stored on a TB equipped camera or even a smartphone (i.e. already advertised on at least one HTC phone).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindori View Post
name 1 thunderbolt peripheral you can actually buy today

edit: ok http://store.apple.com/us/product/H5184VC/A/Thunderbolt
Exactly. Not many available ATM (not all that many announced yet either), are on the expensive side as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by derbothaus View Post
Also a question of longevity. 4 year old Mac Pro's can still hang. Most iMac's have fried in that timeline. Either by death to display or motherboard or anything else. Heat kills them the fastest. Apple keeps putting faster, hotter procs in them and at the same time slims them down more and more and slows down the fans to keep things quiet when you are web browsing. But when you do real work with it you get too close to thermal shutdown for my liking. This reduces the parts life even more.
I don't disagree that the thermal design isn't wonderful, but keep in mind, that Apple makes their money by selling new computers and devices.

So if your system literally breaks every 3 years or so, then users are forced to buy a new machine. Now they don't have to buy Apple, but if they're heavily invested in OS X based software, or are just "hooked", then Apple is their only alternative.

Apple may not even have a problem with this sort of scenario, and intentionally use it to their advantage.
nanofrog is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 30, 2011, 12:12 AM   #16
saulinpa
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
For the best performance TB is already behind the times.

Thunderbolt = 10mb/s
Internal with SATA2 = 3mb/s
Internal with 2 striped disks @ SATA2 = 6mb/s
Internal with 3 striped disks @ SATA2 = 9mb/s

Assuming next gen Pros use SATA3
Internal with SATA3 = 6mb/s
Internal with 2 striped disks @ SATA3 = 12mb/s
Internal with 3 striped disks @ SATA3 = 18mb/s

All theory but internal disks still rule.
saulinpa is offline   -1 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 30, 2011, 01:01 AM   #17
MacinJosh
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Finland
Quote:
Originally Posted by saulinpa View Post
For the best performance TB is already behind the times.

Thunderbolt = 10mb/s
Internal with SATA2 = 3mb/s
Internal with 2 striped disks @ SATA2 = 6mb/s
Internal with 3 striped disks @ SATA2 = 9mb/s

Assuming next gen Pros use SATA3
Internal with SATA3 = 6mb/s
Internal with 2 striped disks @ SATA3 = 12mb/s
Internal with 3 striped disks @ SATA3 = 18mb/s

All theory but internal disks still rule.
Dude, you're getting your Gigs and Megs and Bits and Bytes all messed up! Very untrue but I'll let someone else clean it up Gotta run.
__________________
Mac Pro 5,1 Quad 2.8Ghz - 5770 - 12GB - 120GB SSD - 6TB
iPhone 6+ 64GB Gold
Apple TV3 / iPhone 4S - 16GB / iPhone 4 - 16GB
iPad Mini Retina - 32GB / iPad 3 - 16GB - Black
MacinJosh is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 30, 2011, 01:43 AM   #18
chych
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by saulinpa View Post
For the best performance TB is already behind the times.

Thunderbolt = 10mb/s
Internal with SATA2 = 3mb/s
Internal with 2 striped disks @ SATA2 = 6mb/s
Internal with 3 striped disks @ SATA2 = 9mb/s

Assuming next gen Pros use SATA3
Internal with SATA3 = 6mb/s
Internal with 2 striped disks @ SATA3 = 12mb/s
Internal with 3 striped disks @ SATA3 = 18mb/s

All theory but internal disks still rule.
So just use two thunderbolt ports for 2x10Gb/s = 20 Gb/s. Problem solved. That's what you did with SATA...
chych is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 30, 2011, 01:56 AM   #19
skier777
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos123x View Post
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Will apple kill off the Mac Pro now that ThunderBolt can be used for high speed storage, multiple connections, video capture cards, expansions, and even GPU upgrades?

With laptops and iMacs now having quad core processors and thunderbolt do we really need the Mac Pro anymore? Or will the demand for future 32 core macs keep the platform alive?

Mac Pros will be around for a while. TB is no match for PCIe in terms of graphics cards. Also, for people who need fast workstations they are unmatched. Add as many displays as you want, easily upgrade ram and graphics etc, for high end work, imacs will never replace the mac pro market.
skier777 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 30, 2011, 02:35 AM   #20
bpeeps
macrumors 65816
 
bpeeps's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos123x View Post
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Will apple kill off the Mac Pro now that ThunderBolt can be used for high speed storage, multiple connections, video capture cards, expansions, and even GPU upgrades?

With laptops and iMacs now having quad core processors and thunderbolt do we really need the Mac Pro anymore? Or will the demand for future 32 core macs keep the platform alive?
Not any time soon. Especially with the cost associated with external thunderbolt anything at the moment. A workstation is a workstation is a workstation! A laptop is well... a laptop. And a laptop or an iMac having more cores doesn't eliminate the need for the pro market.
bpeeps is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 30, 2011, 05:59 AM   #21
simsaladimbamba
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: located
Quote:
Originally Posted by saulinpa View Post
For the best performance TB is already behind the times.

Thunderbolt = 10mb/s
Internal with SATA2 = 3mb/s
Internal with 2 striped disks @ SATA2 = 6mb/s
Internal with 3 striped disks @ SATA2 = 9mb/s

Assuming next gen Pros use SATA3
Internal with SATA3 = 6mb/s
Internal with 2 striped disks @ SATA3 = 12mb/s
Internal with 3 striped disks @ SATA3 = 18mb/s

All theory but internal disks still rule.
Again, you got Gigabit confused with whatever "mb" stands for in your mind.
Btw, even if an internal HDD has a S-ATA 3.0Gbps interface, doesn't mean, it can provide such speeds, as those HDDs are slower than even S-ATA 1.5Gbps, which provides roughly 148MB/s and platter based HDDs top out at 120MB/s, unless you have some of those 10.000RMP models.

So even if you would have an S-ATA 6.0Gbps HDD, it still would top out at 120MB/s.

Maybe next time.
simsaladimbamba is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 30, 2011, 06:00 AM   #22
gabicava83
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindori View Post
name 1 thunderbolt peripheral you can actually buy today

edit: ok http://store.apple.com/us/product/H5184VC/A/Thunderbolt
Feck that's expensive. Would have thought there'd be ethernet ports on there too.
gabicava83 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 30, 2011, 06:02 AM   #23
simsaladimbamba
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: located
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabicava83 View Post
Feck that's expensive. Would have thought there'd be ethernet ports on there.
It is expensive because of this: http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...are_chips.html & http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/29/...-and-firmware/
simsaladimbamba is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 30, 2011, 10:31 AM   #24
theSeb
macrumors 603
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Poole, England
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabicava83 View Post
Feck that's expensive. Would have thought there'd be ethernet ports on there too.
No it's not when you compare it to a similar product with fw800 and hardware raid. What are you comparing it to exactly?
theSeb is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 30, 2011, 10:33 AM   #25
RebootD
macrumors 6502a
 
RebootD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NW Indiana
As long as iMac's only have glossy displays then a Mac Pro shall be my workhorse. Plus I don't trust a MBP to be running all day without it frying.
__________________
I've lost my **** mind
RebootD is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > Apple Hardware > Desktops > Mac Pro

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
iPhone: Bolt for iOS 7! darricksailo Jailbreaks and iOS Hacks 0 Jan 25, 2014 07:29 PM
rMBP Thunder Bolt Drive allows for External Boot of Windows 7? renosausage MacBook Pro 2 May 14, 2013 11:41 AM
Thunder bolt drive LEVENDIZ Mac Peripherals 4 Mar 3, 2013 12:32 PM
Target display mode (non Thunder Bolt) on older iMacs frega iMac 2 Jun 20, 2012 03:52 AM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:44 PM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC