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Dispelling the SSD myth. What is fast? Samsung vs Toshiba
- Thread starter theSeb
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looks like an amazing post but I only read the end. Glad to know it won't make any major differences.
Yeah, that is a longer forum post, but honestly its pretty easy to read in a few minutes.It's sad that it may put people off!
But yes, this is a top post, very appreciated. This all makes a lot of sense, but ironically the people who moan about things often aren't the same people who go around and take time to learn/read.
Hence this post might not reach its target audience!
But yes, this is a top post, very appreciated. This all makes a lot of sense, but ironically the people who moan about things often aren't the same people who go around and take time to learn/read.
Hence this post might not reach its target audience!
Thanks for the comments. It's easier and faster for everyone to make their own thread to complain about the SSD travesty.
I bought a new red sportscar that says it goes to 180mph. My buddy paid the same amount and got the exact same car but his speedometer says it goes to 190mph.
Just because we may never hit top speed doesn't mean someone shouldn't feel a bit irked that all things aren't the same.
(BTW. I'm not complaining. I got the Toshiba 256 but I also got a $100 sale discoun, $90 reward zone bucks, $100 gift card and a free Pepsi at Best Buy so it's not worth going back to risk getting another. BUT, I can see why others would want to)
Just because we may never hit top speed doesn't mean someone shouldn't feel a bit irked that all things aren't the same.
(BTW. I'm not complaining. I got the Toshiba 256 but I also got a $100 sale discoun, $90 reward zone bucks, $100 gift card and a free Pepsi at Best Buy so it's not worth going back to risk getting another. BUT, I can see why others would want to)
Damn, all they had was Coke Zero at my Best Buy!! At least I got the rest of the deal though....
Dude, I totally got more calories than you. I'd suggest you exchange it but according to one of those graphs up there then we're supposed to pretend there isn't a difference between Coke Zero and Pepsi.
anandtech says:
I disagree here. It's quite easy to find differences in true real world settings as Hardwareheaven shows in their reviews: http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/1143/pg9/crucial-m4-256gb-ssd-c400-review-install-times.html
PS. here are several benchmarks where the Toshiba beats the Samsung: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1198391/
I disagree here. It's quite easy to find differences in true real world settings as Hardwareheaven shows in their reviews: http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/1143/pg9/crucial-m4-256gb-ssd-c400-review-install-times.html
PS. here are several benchmarks where the Toshiba beats the Samsung: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1198391/
You install Windows a lot, do you?
You just proved the point by linking to a Windows installation benchmark (hint: it takes a long time.)
As far as I know, people have been saying that Samsung's 256 GB SSD is faster than Toshiba's 256 GB SSD.
I always thought people who were making the blanket statement that Samsung SSDs are faster than Toshiba SSDs just misunderstood and were saying what they thought was true.
I always thought people who were making the blanket statement that Samsung SSDs are faster than Toshiba SSDs just misunderstood and were saying what they thought was true.
That's only one page. The review has several pages that show clear real world differences.
More examples: http://www.techspot.com/review/402-crucial-m4-ssd/page5.html
I see lots of significant differences that are easy to quantify.
Excellent post, OP, and yes, I did take the time to read it from beginning to end. Thanks for posting it, and it made interesting reading.
I'm one of those who would lie in your "98%" category. Like the '98%' referred to, while I am delighted that SSDs will be the norm on computers, I am not hugely fussed about relatively micro advantages of one brand over another. The advantages over the old HDD (of both iPods and computers) are simply too great to ignore the advantages of SSD, while the differences between types of SSD don't really excite me at the moment.
To my way of thinking, Apple SSDs are fine for the moment, and, as with all other technological advances (think of the fall in price of USB sticks for example; a few years ago, a stick of 1GB or 2GB cost nearly 100, now they are easily affordable), prices will fall, probably quite considerably, over the coming years.
Cheers
I'm one of those who would lie in your "98%" category. Like the '98%' referred to, while I am delighted that SSDs will be the norm on computers, I am not hugely fussed about relatively micro advantages of one brand over another. The advantages over the old HDD (of both iPods and computers) are simply too great to ignore the advantages of SSD, while the differences between types of SSD don't really excite me at the moment.
To my way of thinking, Apple SSDs are fine for the moment, and, as with all other technological advances (think of the fall in price of USB sticks for example; a few years ago, a stick of 1GB or 2GB cost nearly 100, now they are easily affordable), prices will fall, probably quite considerably, over the coming years.
Cheers
It's funny and odd that you've posted this analogy because I was just about to post something similar. First of all, it would appear, thanks to benchmarks, that the difference between the Samsung and Toshiba is more like 190 MPH versus 187 MPH. Is this really an issue? I do understand your point though.
Then taking this analogy further: the difference between the fastest drive and the slower SSDs can best be thought of as two cars, where one can sprint from 0-60 MPH in 4.5 and the other can achieve this in 5 seconds. What if the faster car was also temperamental and overheated in traffic, but drove like a dream on the open roads?
It is nice to be able to accelerate at a more rapid rate and have more power, but do you always take off at full throttle from every stop street? No, quite often you feather the throttle and drive normally. Would the difference in getting from 0-60 MPH have a significant impact on how fast you get from home to work or how fast you can drive to the coast for your holiday? Not really, because you have speed limits and do not always drive at full throttle. You, as the user, are the bottle neck for both the SSDs and the cars.
There will be occasions where there extra 0.5 of a second will make a difference, like, for example, if you take your car to a race track. This is very stressful and is akin to having a very heavy workflow and therefore the fastest possible SSD is justifiable, but it shouldn't be your top priority for usual pottering about town and getting to work. You want something reliable, even if it means you may arrive 2 minutes later.
You could link to bar charts all day. Never mind the fact that the difference between the fastest and slowest SSDs on that page is ~1 second and doesn't account for the fact that the fastest has double the storage (thus up to double the memory chips) meaning the test isn't exactly fair.
Without benchmarks, if you switched between a MBA with a Toshiba SSD and a MBA with a Samsung SSD on a regular basis, you would not tell the difference. It's only the fact that benchmarks show a irrelevant difference that people care.
Both SSDs are fast even by SSD standards. The original SSD in the old MBAs, compared to a HDD, was a remarkable transformation that took away the biggest bottleneck in computing speed. In a benchmark, the older SSD is ~5x slower than either the Toshiba or Samsung SSD. In reality, the difference going from a 'slow' SSD to a relatively 'fast' SSD is nothing compared to going from a HDD to SSD. I can notice the difference but only just, compare two relatively close SSDs and you'd probably only tell the difference with massive file transfers.
great post - this is so ridiculous.....but I guarantee you some did not sleep since this "fact" came out - LOL
PS I have the "slow" Toshiba - but somehow I will make it thru the day ok, it'll be a struggle but I'll make it. I have to go now console my wife, she is frantic and in tears over this thing....
Great post !
I have to say that it is true that 98% of the users won't feel the difference, the frustration come from the fact that 2 people who bought the same product won't get the same quality. it is just about injustice.
The ignorant are always the happiest !
My advice: once you receive your mbair don't check what SSD is inside and enjoy the little guy !!!
I'll try to do so ;-) mine is in the plane to Europe ;-)
I have to say that it is true that 98% of the users won't feel the difference, the frustration come from the fact that 2 people who bought the same product won't get the same quality. it is just about injustice.
The ignorant are always the happiest !
My advice: once you receive your mbair don't check what SSD is inside and enjoy the little guy !!!
I'll try to do so ;-) mine is in the plane to Europe ;-)
Like you linked in the OP, this is what people should read before looking at the MOASB scores:
To be honest, unless you are really a pro user (heavy video, photo, music editing, rendering etc) and undertand something about SSDs and computer in general, don't even take a look at the benchmarks. They will do nothing else but confuse your head. The MOASB is nothing unless you actually know what it really does and what it is useful for.
Those drives aren't 100% valid in MBA discussion. 2.5" SSDs usually have 16 NAND devices while MBA has four or eight (only in 256GB). That can make a huge difference. One controller can be better optimized for fewer NANDs than the other. Plus, Apple uses a custom firmware which again changes the game.
To show that the firmware really makes a difference, the Samsung one gets around 270MB/s read and 212MB/s write. In the link you posted, the Samsung gets 250MB/s and 245/150/105 MB/s depending on the capacity. Samsung claims 250MB/s read and 220MB/s write for 256GB model.
What we really need is two MBAs: one with Samsung and one with Toshiba. Then some real world tests to see the real difference under OS X.
To be honest, unless you are really a pro user (heavy video, photo, music editing, rendering etc) and undertand something about SSDs and computer in general, don't even take a look at the benchmarks. They will do nothing else but confuse your head. The MOASB is nothing unless you actually know what it really does and what it is useful for.
Those drives aren't 100% valid in MBA discussion. 2.5" SSDs usually have 16 NAND devices while MBA has four or eight (only in 256GB). That can make a huge difference. One controller can be better optimized for fewer NANDs than the other. Plus, Apple uses a custom firmware which again changes the game.
To show that the firmware really makes a difference, the Samsung one gets around 270MB/s read and 212MB/s write. In the link you posted, the Samsung gets 250MB/s and 245/150/105 MB/s depending on the capacity. Samsung claims 250MB/s read and 220MB/s write for 256GB model.
What we really need is two MBAs: one with Samsung and one with Toshiba. Then some real world tests to see the real difference under OS X.
I agree there are differences. But they do use the same controllers. So translating the results may not be 100% accurate for the MBA, I still think it's 97% accurate.
I've benchmarked both SM and TS SSDs in MBAs 2010 under Windows. I got very similar random performance as with Kingston V+ 100 and Samsung 470 (that I both reviewed for NBR). Unfortunately I didn't keep the screenshots.
That would be most ideal I agree.
In the absence of that I think we can learn a lot from comparing the controller performance in the SSDs that are technically most close to that.
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The only time you would perceive a difference would be on long processes such as installing large files or copying large files. As the time of the process increases the evidence of the difference between the two becomes noticeable. For example if we duplicated a 2gig file on both models then one may complete it only a matter of seconds faster. Would you notice this difference? Yes. Would you notice the difference in everyday use? No.
Thanks for adding this because I was just looking for the thread where I last saw it.
Barefeats said:
Let's stipulate that "over 3 GB" is around 3072 MB
Samsung:
3072/T * 2 = 61.9
therefore
T = 99.3 seconds
OWC Aura:
T = 98.1 seconds
Toshiba:
T = 116 seconds